How to get the rest of archery season

[wildcat junkie]

He practiced at 40 yards and guessed at a 50 yard shot with a crossbow . He got the deer . So , what's the big deal !

How many of you sight in a rifle at 100 yards and take a 200 yard shot ?

 

 

Both equally irresponsible.

Just luck neither ends up with a wounded animal.

I sight in my rifles @ 100yds so that I have maximum point blank range + or - 3". I use actual chronograph measured Mv & ballistic coefecients for the bullets I am using to plot the trajectory. Usually 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" high @ 100yds, depending on caliber.

I can take shots to 275-310yds, again, depending on caliber, W/a dead on (vertical) center of the chest hold & routinely take whitetails @ 190-260yds.

Nothing irresponsible about that, but it's a far cry from what the OP did.

 

 

No offense here dude, but irresponsible shots like that are why im against full inclusions.

^^^^What he said^^^^

Edited January 6, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[jjb4900]

big difference if you misjudge 10-20 yards with a rifle as opposed to doing the same with "archery" gear...........unless the man upstairs wants you to get the deer, than apparently that's all that matters. 

[G-Man]

I practice at 75 yards with my bow so I can make that shot, every person has individual limits, the equipment we use is much more capable that, all equipment, bow ,gun or crossbow.... x bow is still stick and string, and archery is where it belongs. Putting it Anywhere else is out of ignorance and fear.

[wolc123]

Maybe that explains why the buck was struck thru the heart at 60 yards with a 300 fps, 135 lb draw x-bow.  He heard the release of the arrow and positioned himself so that he could check out with as little pain and suffering as possible.   One things certain however, that heart was delicious.  My wife pickled it and another for an appetizer at our new-years party this year.   I think my first guess was more on-target.  The venison goes where the man upstairs wants it to go.  Range, practice, poundage, speed, etc., are of secondary importance.   Good luck next season for all you folks whether you got any last year or not.  

[jjb4900]

248.jpgMaybe that explains why the buck was struck thru the heart at 60 yards with a 300 fps, 135 lb draw x-bow.  He heard the release of the arrow and positioned himself so that he could check out with as little pain and suffering as possible.   One things certain however, that heart was delicious.  My wife pickled it and another for an appetizer at our new-years party this year.   I think my first guess was more on-target.  The venison goes where the man upstairs wants it to go.  Range, practice, poundage, speed, etc., are of secondary importance.   Good luck next season for all you folks whether you got any last year or not.  

is that really how it works? 

[rob-c]

the thing that bothers me is not the shot but the fact that you had no idea what the x-bow shot with the second dot on your sight, a responsible hunter will know said hunting implement in /out/ up / down so its second nature. they make a nifty little gadget called a range finder that will tell what the yardage is. nothing wrong with taking difficult shots as long as the person is prepared for the difficult shot, but to hope and poke at a live animal is irresponsible. and by the way my freezer is full and gets filled yearly to the max with venison all with out a (I pray I make this shot). 

Edited January 7, 2015 by rob-c

[Untwisted Pretzel logic]

Please note:  The effective hunting range of a crossbow is for all practical purposes the same as that of a verical compound bow.

 

I have an Excalibur Xbow that shoots just over 300FPS.  Comfortable shooting range for me with an Xbow is no longer than 30 yards in the deep woods. I am accurate out to 50 yards under ideal conditons = knowing the exact distance, nothing in the way, off of a stable rest and with a stationary target. 

 

Most of your shots in the deep woods will be in the 20 to 30 yard range.

 

Individuals can still be successful with shooting at longer distances, however the probability for success decreases exponentially as the distance goes beyond 30 yards.  There are many factors that lead to a lower probability of success; mainly - the ability to judge distance (gravity affects an arrow the same from a Xbow or a vertical compound bow) and the movement of the deer.

 

Whatever type of bow you are using; take practical, makeable shots - i.e., ethical shots.  Save the Hail Mary stuff for church.

 

The above is just a commentary on ethical shots and I am making a point regarding the effective range of Xbows and vertical compound bows - they are essentially the same.  There are some hunters that do the hail mary thing whatever they are using and will use their own logic to justify it.

 

To address your question as to what needs to be done for more crossbow inclusion into regular archery season - I believe it will just take some time.  At some point more of the individuals who are now against it will get old or have physical limitations that will prevent them from using a vertical bow.  Everyone gets old.

 

These individuals that have selfish interests now, and are against Xbows, will be in favor when they are older and can no longer use verical bows.  It will be good to have more inclusion of Xbows; as more women, elderly and physically limited hunters will be able to enjoy the woods more.  The DEC always states a desire to encourage more hunters - increasing the Xbow season would really help to accomplish this.

 

[wolc123]

Maybe some folks cant shoot any better with a crossbow than a compound but I certainly am not one of them. Cutbait says they are about equal in effectiveness. I have taken plenty of deer with a compound over 30 some years and would not consider a shot over 30 yards with one. 60 yards with a crossbow was a little longer than I estimated, but it still got the job done. With a slight upgrade, I would not hesitate to take that shot again. My 60 yarder was across an open field, at a distracted buck (focused on two does), that was in no position to "jump the string". I might not get a chance like that again, but I am very confident in the accuracy of my crossbow at that range, just a little concerned about penetration. 30 more fps and 15 more pounds of draw weight should take care of that.

I have enough experience with deer and archery equipment to know when "string jump" is an issue and when it's not. Most, if not all "string jump", that I have experienced with a compound, was a result of the deer picking up the motion of the draw in their peripheral vision and changing to a state of extreme alert. Guess what folks - you don't need to draw the crossbow with the deer in close. That, more than anything is what makes the crossbow so much more effective than the compound on "live" targets. They never know what hits them until it is too late, without that little visual warning like they always get when you draw your compound. If they are not alert, they can't instantly react to the sound of the bow's energy release.

Most crossbow shots are taken from a rest using telescopic sights. Think about how that compares to taking shots with a compound from a standing position. Its not fair. What chance does the poor deer have? The less he has the better as far as I am concerned. I want him dead and in my freezer. If you want to give the deer a chance, stick with the compound, or maybe even a recurve or longbow. Personally, I would rate my crossbow as at least 6 times more effective on deer than my compound, and 4 times more effective on fixed targets. Your results may vary.

[SteveB]

Amazing what some convince themselves to be factual.

[phade]

String jump isn't all about motion. Sound travels faster than an arrow. From a dB perspective, crossbows are much louder, changing the general range of which deer may string jump.

 

 

[Untwisted Pretzel logic]

This thread was originally about getting full inclusion during archery season.  I will stand by what I stated about vertical bows and crossbows being similar.  Of course my feeling about shot distance was a general statement and there are exceptions; however, exceptions are just that and are not the general rule.  In most cases the exceptional shot distance will result in a higher probability of failure. 

 

As far as the original poster's desire for full inclusion; I don't think that he sees that by his words and actions, he is his (our) own worst enemy for that cause. 

[wolc123]

Would our chance for full inclusion be better if a crossbow was not really more effective than a compound? The problem is, the truth can not be suppressed, and it don't take long after you pick one up, before you realize how much more effective they truly are. Range at least double, group size (from a rest) well under 1/2 at all ranges compared to those made with vertical bow shots. No need to draw with deer in close. No fatigue from long hold. Telescopic sights. All that stuff adds up in favor of the crossbow. The one I got is not front heavy, and balances as good as my .22 carbine rifle for off-hand shots. If the state truly wants to reduce the deer herd in some areas, then they should strongly consider letting us use this 10X or so more effective weapon throughout archery season as most other states have done. You can keep drinking that "kool-aid" that says the crossbow is no different in effectiveness than a compound if you would like. Only problem is, it just don't match the facts.

[jjb4900]

Would our chance for full inclusion be better if a crossbow was not really more effective than a compound? The problem is, the truth can not be suppressed, and it don't take long after you pick one up, before you realize how much more effective they truly are. Range at least double, group size (from a rest) well under 1/2 at all ranges compared to those made with vertical bow shots. No need to draw with deer in close. No fatigue from long hold. Telescopic sights. All that stuff adds up in favor of the crossbow. The one I got is not front heavy, and balances as good as my .22 carbine rifle for off-hand shots. If the state truly wants to reduce the deer herd in some areas, then they should strongly consider letting us use this 10X or so more effective weapon throughout archery season as most other states have done. You can keep drinking that "kool-aid" that says the crossbow is no different in effectiveness than a compound if you would like. Only problem is, it just don't match the facts.

actually, you make a strong argument as to why they shouldn't be included in archery season.

[grampy]

Ok, just my opinion here, not trying to tick off the OP. I too have hunted 30+years with a compound bow. And I too got a cross bow last year and am impressed with some of its capabilities. But my actual "hunting" range has not changed at all. Still 30 yards or less. I will not shoot unless I'm 100 percent sure that I can put the arrow or bolt exactly where it needs to go to cleanly kill that animal. Perhaps a "lucky" or not shot at 60 yards worked out well once but can you be 100 percent sure it will every time? I know we all have different skill levels, but I just don't see many hunters consistently making 60 yard shots, even with a crossbow.

[reeltime]

all one has to do is look over the hundreds of hunting sites during archery season and see how many notes get put up about hits and not recovered, I would bet that far more of these happen 25 yards plus -vs- under 25.  hunters should not be using deer for target practice or just plain old poke and hope type shots that just shows no respect for the animals.

 

 

[wolc123]

For me to take a shot at a deer, I need to know on average, within about 90% certainty, that I can recover the deer with a clean kill. I have never had enough sightings to wait for the 100% shots. Last season, I only had 4 bucks within range from the beginning of crossbow season until the end of ML, and not a single doe or fawn. Fortunately, I was able to connect on both bucks that I shot at, or it would be one long, hungry off-season. That was in a total of 37 morning and afternoon hunts. My % number goes a little lower near the end of the respective seasons (archery, gun, ML), mostly because my whole family loves venison. I judged the 60 yard shot (which I guessed at 50), to be about 80% on the last day I could fill my archery tag. We ate our first roast tonight from that corn-fed 6-point buck, and it was excellent. Far tastier than them little yellow tags it sounds like many of you 100%'rs might still be clinging to.

If venison were not so darn good, I could maybe hold out for the better than 99.5% shot, but in 37 years of hunting, I only had one. That was at a doe, standing, looking at me, just 13 yards away, as I aimed my scoped, 12 gauge slug gun at the center of her rib-cage. It was not to be however, as the gun froze up due to the extreme cold conditions, and did not fire when I pulled the trigger. Just goes to show that there is no such thing as a 100% shot. Every hunter should know his limitations with every weapon, on that we all agree.

[jjb4900]

now, I've heard of guys lowering their standards on what deer they'll kill the later the season goes on, but someone taking riskier shots based on the later in the season it is, is a totally new one.

[SteveB]

Amazing what some convince themselves to be factual.

And the more he posts, the more amazing it is.

[mt624]

This is hilarious!

Hunter math!

I'm guessing the deer wasn't EXACTLY 60 yards either... But now we're really splitting hairs, huh?

[Untwisted Pretzel logic]

"As far as the original poster's desire for full inclusion; I don't think that he sees that by his words and actions, he is his (our) own worst enemy for that cause. "

 

Wolc 123 - Please stop as you continue to get further and further from promoting your cause.

 

This will be my last post on this, as any further discussion will be a waste of time.   To quote Confusious - be wary of arguing with an idiot on the street corner, as a passerby may have a difficult time determining who the idiot is.  

[jjb4900]

Ok, just my opinion here, not trying to tick off the OP. I too have hunted 30+years with a compound bow. And I too got a cross bow last year and am impressed with some of its capabilities. But my actual "hunting" range has not changed at all. Still 30 yards or less. I will not shoot unless I'm 100 percent sure that I can put the arrow or bolt exactly where it needs to go to cleanly kill that animal. Perhaps a "lucky" or not shot at 60 yards worked out well once but can you be 100 percent sure it will every time? I know we all have different skill levels, but I just don't see many hunters consistently making 60 yard shots, even with a crossbow.

yeah, we all knew there was going to be a few who looked at the crossbow as some kind of "superweapon" that was snuck into archery season........guess we found one, or should I say he found us?

[wolc123]

So how does pretending that a crossbow is no more effective than a compound help us get the rest of archery season?   Any other ideas?    I paced off that shot at 59 yards.  Check out the arrow placement in the photo.   Bottom line here is the man upstairs is the one who determines whether or not you make the shot, I know I ain't that good. Feel free to post any of your photos of shot results at "ethical" ranges, or maybe send in a photo of your little yellow tag if that's all you got.  I am sorry if I have ruffled a few feathers here but I am enjoying the entertainment.  Bring it on.

[jjb4900]

248.jpgSo how does pretending that a crossbow is no more effective than a compound help us get the rest of archery season?   Any other ideas?    I paced off that shot at 59 yards.  Check out the arrow placement in the photo.   Bottom line here is the man upstairs is the one who determines whether or not you make the shot, I know I ain't that good. Feel free to post any of your photos of shot results at "ethical" ranges, or maybe send in a photo of your little yellow tag if that's all you got.  I am sorry if I have ruffled a few feathers here but I am enjoying the entertainment.  Bring it on.

maybe you can find a market for those "Jesus" guided arrows and bullets, can you come up with a more ridiculous explanation?......if you ain't that good, don't take the shot.

Edited January 16, 2015 by jjb4900

[rob-c]

248.jpgSo how does pretending that a crossbow is no more effective than a compound help us get the rest of archery season?   Any other ideas?    I paced off that shot at 59 yards.  Check out the arrow placement in the photo.   Bottom line here is the man upstairs is the one who determines whether or not you make the shot, I know I ain't that good. Feel free to post any of your photos of shot results at "ethical" ranges, or maybe send in a photo of your little yellow tag if that's all you got.  I am sorry if I have ruffled a few feathers here but I am enjoying the entertainment.  Bring it on.

 

oh sir, I am enjoying your reasons and explanations on how and why you made the shot..

[wooly]

When in doubt...., "spray and pray"..