Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[sampotter]

.

 

At the farm in PA I hunt, in the 12 years since the AR's were implemented only a couple decent buck have been killed by the 8-10 guys that hunt the place.  Its only around 300 acres.............

 

 

 

I don't think anyone could consistently kill mature bucks on 300 acres if it was shared with 8-10 guys. Heck, I don't think the whole group could manage to kill one mature buck every year off of 300 acres. Way too much pressure for a mature buck's taste. With that many hunters you guys can probably see each other when on stand.

 

Having more mature bucks around doesn't make them any easier to kill. I feel like I have one or two chances at mature bucks all season. Of there were more mature bucks, that might increase to 3-4 chances all season. It's still up to the hunter to put themselves in that position and be able to capitalize when it comes. Mature bucks can't be hunted successfully like yearlings and 2 year olds either.

[sampotter]

Lots of you throw around the term "trophy hunter" thinking it means.. " a hunter that hunts big bucks" ... I hunt big bucks only, but by no means am I a trophy hunter... I hunt bigger bucks simply because the challenge is greater... there are less of them and they are harder to find and kill... If younger bucks were tougher to kill and harder to find, I'd be hunting them.

 

A trophy hunter is really anyone that kills any deer for the reason of puffing their chest and making the announcement of how that deer means that they are a great hunter. I know many many ADK hunters that kill all kinds of big bucks and none of them is a trophy hunter... they are just guys that love that style of hunting and the challenge of an elusive mature buck. I and them get off on the hunt... not the deer. Hence, the reason why the non-kill stories can be just as exciting as the kill stories.

 

I'd add there is a whole range of "trophy hunters"; from the guys that just like the challenge to the ones that pay an outfitter to put them in heated blind and shoot a big buck, and all they take home is the rack and cape. I'd still call the challenge guys "trophy hunters". I fall somewhere in between; I hunt for myself and the challenge first, but still like to show off a big buck when I finally connect, not seeking fame  or endorsements either, I'm just proud of an accomplishment and not ashamed to admit it.

I think you'd have to put yourself in a similar bracket NYantler... otherwise you wouldn't have a website or post pictures of your kills.

[Uncle Nicky]

We've had AR here in PA for about 15 years. I hated the idea at first...I can't say I've ever come to fully embrace the idea, but I can live with it. I will say we have bigger bucks walking the woods than we did 20 years ago, and the chance on killing a deer you'd mount has definitely increased. The biggest mistake they made here was giving out a lot more doe tags at the same time...the herd never really bounced back, but I think that was the intention. Overall, I like deer hunting in NY better, I've killed just as many mature deer there without AR as I have in PA.

[jjb4900]

My answer will probably not be the norm, but because doe tags are hard to get here, and I treasure the venison. If I had a doe tag, I'd prefer a large doe over a small buck.

 

Somewhat related but a bit off track:

There is an old, uneducated phenomenon around here. I don't know if it is state wide or if it's a local thing. Many older landowners (and some younger ones that have been taught this way) also specifically request absolutely no doe hunting. The farm almost next door actually has signs that say "NO DOE HUNTING". I don't hunt on these properties, I don't have permission-- but a small army of guys do. If they honor the landowner's request, then there are no does being shot off of large tracts of property here. (this makes sense as I regularly have 18-25 doe herded up in my back woods, over-browsing everything!) Is this a common thing, landowners forbidding doe hunting? Also an honest question.

yes, I know of a few who have those rules..........also know a few who get doe tags with no intention of using or allowing another to use them..I will add, that these guys are not big buck hunters and really had no desire to grow them, they enjoyed hunting, seeing deer any shooting legal bucks of any size.....they always allowed new hunters to shoot any deer they chose.

Edited January 8, 2015 by jjb4900

[Skillet]

I sure as hell didn't bring it up.  Go back to my first post and see who was the first to bring up deer farms and high fence!!   I'll give you ONE guess.  LOL

  

he manages to bring it into every thread. I stay out of the convos, but frankly it's getting old. Ok you're a deer farmer. Great we all know it. Lets talk about deer hunting. I don't care about your farm and it derails half the threads on this forum.

Post #270, first mention of HF. Not posted by 4 seasons.

[growalot]

Jennifer yes it is very common...actually Mr. B hasn't shot a  doe deer in years...he signs over his doe tags...unless mercy kills are needed and will only shoot a big 8 or better. He has me to get the doe and know what is good for the general area and whats not We have a few neighbors that won't shoot nor allow shooting of doe and a few freinds....They have seen years where the hunters went crazy shooting them ...then the herds dropped like a rock when the bad winters hit...they are our safety net. A net needed when you have one guy in the area that brags about shooting 11 deer this season alone...lets see 4+2 sign overs and 2 buck tags = 8 legal deer...hhmmm

These ppl know he is not alone...just most are not bragging about it...I thank them for knowing the area...it's hunting types and the herds...

[moog5050]

My answer will probably not be the norm, but because doe tags are hard to get here, and I treasure the venison. If I had a doe tag, I'd prefer a large doe over a small buck.

 

Somewhat related but a bit off track:

There is an old, uneducated phenomenon around here. I don't know if it is state wide or if it's a local thing. Many older landowners (and some younger ones that have been taught this way) also specifically request absolutely no doe hunting. The farm almost next door actually has signs that say "NO DOE HUNTING". I don't hunt on these properties, I don't have permission-- but a small army of guys do. If they honor the landowner's request, then there are no does being shot off of large tracts of property here. (this makes sense as I regularly have 18-25 doe herded up in my back woods, over-browsing everything!) Is this a common thing, landowners forbidding doe hunting? Also an honest question.

 

I was invited to hunt in PA two years ago on 800 acres private.  The rule was no does.  I asked why and the response was that the doe draw the bucks in.  It was his father's rule and was passed down through the generations.  His land, I didn't argue.  BUT this place was literally overrun with doe, which I thought made it much harder to find bucks as they don't need to go very far to find their prize.  Personally, I think it was a misunderstanding of good management (historically) if you are looking to shoot big bucks, which was their goal.  In any event, that was the logic expressed to me.

[rj23nyr]

I have an in-law with land and he only shoots bucks, the bigger the better.  He offered to let me come shoot on his property with the understanding that I would ONLY take does.  We scouted a few times this summer and I got real excited for the gun season. 

 

In conversation, he mentioned to his wife that I would be helping to manage the herd.  She got upset and was incredulous that I was planning to shoot a female.  Lo and behold, I wasn't invited to the property during deer season.  I think her husband is lucky he's allowed to shoot bucks at all, lol.  Guess we'll just have to work on educating her this summer...

[moog5050]

I don't think anyone could consistently kill mature bucks on 300 acres if it was shared with 8-10 guys. Heck, I don't think the whole group could manage to kill one mature buck every year off of 300 acres. Way too much pressure for a mature buck's taste. With that many hunters you guys can probably see each other when on stand.

 

Having more mature bucks around doesn't make them any easier to kill. I feel like I have one or two chances at mature bucks all season. Of there were more mature bucks, that might increase to 3-4 chances all season. It's still up to the hunter to put themselves in that position and be able to capitalize when it comes. Mature bucks can't be hunted successfully like yearlings and 2 year olds either.

 

Geeze Sam, you are making me feel better about not taking a big one this year.  That's 30 acres or more per hunter.  We tend to have much higher density when/where I hunt.  Like 1 hunter per 10-15 acres.

 

AND yes, we often can see one another from the stand.  lol

Edited January 8, 2015 by moog5050

[Doewhacker]

and just a FYI..There are over 600 deer farms and ranches that do just fine in their high fence hunting business in Ohio ,even in a big buck producing state so one has nothing to do with the other.

You brought up your business first not anyone else. And who cares about you and your law breaking mullet sporting self.

[First-light]

Unfortunately this is all out of our hands. Yes a survey goes out and it is provided by a credible institution. The DEC will do what it wants to do. Nobody likes change that is for sure, It is what it is. We had the crossbow introduced this year……no big deal. Youth hunting season seems to be doing fine….no big deal. 

Ok DEC what will it be for next year, maybe nothing……. 

[BizCT]

Whatever happens happens....if I don't like it, I can buy a tag in CT or PA or NJ or some other state.

[Doewhacker]

I'm glad they are surveying 7000 and hopefully they get more responses than the @400 that started this process a few years ago. Until then I'm not too upset about an article.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You brought up your business first not anyone else. And who cares about you and your law breaking mullet sporting self.

Yeah right jackass. Why dont you go back and show just what post that was brought up in. Keep the envy. I love losers like you!

 

You may want to go back and read post 270 before you dig your hole to deep!

Edited January 8, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[phade]

And, we're finally there. Name calling. Took us more pages than I thought.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Unfortunately this is all out of our hands. Yes a survey goes out and it is provided by a credible institution. The DEC will do what it wants to do. Nobody likes change that is for sure, It is what it is. We had the crossbow introduced this year……no big deal. Youth hunting season seems to be doing fine….no big deal. 

Ok DEC what will it be for next year, maybe nothing……. 

No the write up said it would most likely not be nothing. We will see changes and the DEC already knows what they will be, it will hurt some and it will help some. I know a couple that i am ok with that.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

And, we're finally there. Name calling. Took us more pages than I thought.

Yup..312 posts and the same guy starts it all...Typical.

[jjb4900]

to be quite honest, at this point I really don't care if they make those changes........we had antler restrictions shoved down our throats 3 years ago, I don't need to shoot more than one buck a year, and certainly don't spend all those weeks Upstate hunting deer.....not many older guys with only a few good years left in them have 5 years to wait for the AR's to start paying off, and it's tough enough to get kids involved in hunting, so when they have to pass up bucks it will only make it worse........and remember that not every area has doe tags for every hunter every year......time to devote more time to spring turkey season.

Edited January 8, 2015 by jjb4900

[Pygmy]

to be quite honest, at this point I really don't care if they make those changes........we had antler restrictions shoved down our throats 3 years ago, I don't need to shoot more than one buck a year, and certainly don't spend all those weeks Upstate hunting deer.....not many older guys with only a few good years left in them have 5 years to wait for the AR's to start paying off, and it's tough enough to get kids involved in hunting, so when they start have to pass up bucks it will only make it worse........and remember that not every area has doe tags for every hunter every year......time to devote more time to spring turkey season.

 

 

Or WABBITS !.....Wabbits are VEWY CWAFTY....hehehehehehe....

[First-light]

The link to NYON article

http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2015/Deer-regs-changes-in-motion/

[Lawdwaz]

I don't think anyone could consistently kill mature bucks on 300 acres if it was shared with 8-10 guys. Heck, I don't think the whole group could manage to kill one mature buck every year off of 300 acres. Way too much pressure for a mature buck's taste. With that many hunters you guys can probably see each other when on stand.

 

 

Wait a second Sam, with the young bucks being passed the amount of older bucks should increase right?  So there are more of them out there but they still don't get killed.  That's the point in the fact (like Gman brought up) that they don't get killed by hunters very often....

 

I don't know where you are hunting but 300 acres with 10 guys is about the same as 3 guys hunting 100 acres.  Not too many guys here would thumb their nose at that.  You need to rethink your comment about seeing each other on stand too......

 

How many acres does it take to kill a mature buck? 

[BizCT]

 

 

How many acres does it take to kill a mature buck? 

 

If 3.5 is considered "mature" than my answer is less than 8 acres, with 2 hunters. My Dad hunts the same 8 acres almost every single day of gun season and has probably 7-10 3.5's (according to DEC at the butcher) in the last 20 years, with no food plots or scents or treestands.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[adkbuck]

 

A trophy hunter is really anyone that kills any deer for the reason of puffing their chest and making the announcement of how that deer means that they are a great hunter. I know many many ADK hunters that kill all kinds of big bucks and none of them is a trophy hunter... they are just guys that love that style of hunting and the challenge of an elusive mature buck. I and them get off on the hunt... not the deer. Hence, the reason why the non-kill stories can be just as exciting as the kill stories.

 

I really like this (thanks Joe).  On the few occasions  I have been lucky enough to shoot a fully mature buck I am mostly just in awe of the animal!  I feel all of the credit belongs to him not me!!!   Here is a noble whitetail that defied the odds by eluding us "crafty" hunters or by surviving countless hardships and more than several bleak winters sometimes in extremely difficult environments like the wilderness areas of the  Adirondacks!!!  How different he is than most of us comfort loving creatures!  We are all very fortunate to be living at time and place where we are afforded to opportunity to follow our dreams and  hunt the whitetail, the best game animal on the planet!  We should treat each other more like brothers (and sisters), an not let small differences divide us.     

Edited January 8, 2015 by adkbuck

[BizCT]

  hunt the whitetail, the best game animal on the planet!  

 

Really? just curious, what other big game have you hunted?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Thats where the almighty dollar will come in. If they make Ny into a big buck go to state you will be able to get into some of those non hunted farms and lands. Ohio and illy did not become go to states by just people saying there are big bucks there, people shot them,Land values went up. whitetail outfitters showed up, high dollar leases were started and it turned into ...Pay to Hunt..........

 

Sound familiar? 

In Post 270 I was detailing what I believed you were alluding to in you final question of the post. If it wasn't, that was my error.