Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Five Seasons]

Killing a young buck may be easier in some locations than others, but I'd like to see the guy who could absolutely put one down in ANY location in a given day or two of hunting time. That is easier said than done. Those who think that they could do this in ANY location have either not hunted long enough or have hunted their whole careers in locations where deer were plentiful and seen every time out. That is surely NOT the case for a lot of hunters out there.

Very well put. Absolutely spoiled hunting some good land in NY. Then hunting virtually unknown public land this year in Mississippi and really what are different deer helped show this to me. I knew it would be tough, but it helps you appreciate what you have and I've never been so excited to harvest a doe. I was blessed later with a nice 9 and it meant a lot for me to hear a lot of locals have been hunting the land for years and never taken a buck like that. I certainly chalk some of it up to luck and that's hunting, but I also know I busted my ass, spent plenty of days seeing nothing but using topo maps and scouting and finding rubs and scrapes paid off.

[steve863]

I say one of those guys swaps a hunt with you, you go to their big buck producing property and they come down to your hunting land......we'll see what happens after a week long hunt.

 

 

 

 

Nothing would happen, because they'd never share their big buck meccas.  That's the reason we have 23 page threads around here.  Hunting has become the MOST selfish pastime that I could think of.  We are all hunting buddies as long as I don't hunt where you do.  That's become the name of the game I am sorry to say.

[Lawdwaz]

I am all for QDM, familiar with the process and management approach. Not in favor of shoving my CHOICES down another hunters' throat.

 

Well said.

[Five Seasons]

For the all the superstars out there, when are one of you going to step up to a real challenge and come down to 3N and shoot a 130" buck on public land?

I say one of those guys swaps a hunt with you, you go to their big buck producing property and they come down to your hunting land......we'll see what happens after a week long hunt.

I don't think those with good land should be punished or made to feel bad that they're fortunate enough to have it. Whether it was lease, permission or purchased with hard earned dollars. Good land in and of itself is a great challenge.

There are plenty of guys who have great land but have to drive 30 minutes to the nearest grocery store and an hour to the mall or hospital.

If you choose to live in a city you don't have these challenges. Culture and convenience is all at your fingertips, however you may have a tougher road to good hunting. Hard to have it all in life. I grew up in the country and love it, but it comes with its issues. I will not be made to feel bad about it. I'm not saying your hunting isn't hard. Perhaps with ARs you start seeing more and better bucks? Who knows...

Edited January 9, 2015 by Belo

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I have heard some on here say they would rather spend their money on hunting different animals all across the country rather than buying a single place to hunt all the time. Thats Fine. Then others own great land on different ends of the state. Priorities are job one. If they make the seasons shorter, put in Ar and obr there should be deer running all over every property. Shouldn't There?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have heard some on here say they would rather spend their money on hunting different animals all across the country rather than buying a single place to hunt all the time. Thats Fine. Then others own great land on different ends of the state. Priorities are job one. If they make the seasons shorter, put in Ar and obr there should be deer running all over every property. Shouldn't There?

I think just more deer on the best property still. Inferior habitat will still be inferior IMO

[dbHunterNY]

.

 

Edited January 9, 2015 by dbHunterNY

[dbHunterNY]

So now 12 point minimum?

 

To use NY Antlers analogy what you are suggesting is taking the basketball rim and raising it to 14' because you don't like the use of the dunk in scoring and moving the 3 point line out to half court. Really raises the skill level required to play the game but wouldn't make for a pretty $hitty sport to watch or participate in.

 

I am all for QDM, familiar with the process and management approach. Not in favor of shoving my CHOICES down another hunters' throat.

 

 

 

If you have to wait for a 12pt before shooting, not many of us will be shooting many bucks.  In the last 3 years we have only had one buck with 12pts or more (17) even on cam and we have pretty good property to hunt.

 

This is the TX AR:

 

Special Antler Restrictions

• Antler restrictions apply only in certain counties (see County Listings). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as having:
  • a hardened antler protruding through the skin AND;
  • at least one unbranched antler; OR
  • an inside spread measurement between main beams of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).
• In these counties it is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.
• To determine if a buck has an inside spread measurement of at least 13 inches, look at the distance from ear-tip to ear-tip on a buck with ears in the alert position (see illustration).
• Does not apply on Level 2 or 3 MLDP properties.
• Definition of a point: A point is a projection that extends at least one inch from the edge of a main beam or another tine. The tip of the main beam is also a point.

 

you both have things completely jacked up and/or maybe I didn't explain it well enough.  restrictions I said where this... 15" outside spread and 3 points on BOTH sides.  this protects 1.5 and some 2.5 year olds.  so yea you could start shooting at a 2.5 yr old buck most likely.  now take into account an old case of a buck that is 3.5 or older with a narrow rack and fewer points.  he should be legal to shoot because he's not a young enough deer to be concerned about protecting.  so you add a third portion to the restrictions that says if he doesn't meet the spread and minimum point requirements then it's still ok to take him if he meets a third requirement that is basically some indicator that he's most likely not a yearling and would be protected otherwise.

spread and beam length is more indicative of age compared to number of points. so for an AR to work well you have to have spread in there.  multiple years we've had about half the 1.5 yr olds on the property sporting 3 points on a side.  so an AR that simple won't work well enough to protect the right deer

nobody is saying you should start shooting once it's a giant 12 pointer. if you want to do that, FourSeasons can hook you up.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you both have things completely jacked up and/or maybe I didn't explain it well enough.  restrictions I said where this... 15" outside spread and 3 points on BOTH sides.  this protects 1.5 and some 2.5 year olds.  so yea you could start shooting at a 2.5 yr old buck most likely.  now take into account an old case of a buck that is 3.5 or older with a narrow rack and fewer points.  he should be legal to shoot because he's not a young enough deer to be concerned about protecting.  so you add a third portion to the restrictions that says if he doesn't meet the spread and minimum point requirements then it's still ok to take him if he meets a third requirement that is basically some indicator that he's most likely not a yearling and would be protected otherwise.

spread and beam length is more indicative of age compared to number of points. so for an AR to work well you have to have spread in there.  multiple years we've had about half the 1.5 yr olds on the property sporting 3 points on a side.  so an AR that simple won't work well enough to protect the right deer

nobody is saying you should start shooting once it's a giant 12 pointer. if you want to do that, FourSeasons can hook you up.

I understand what you are saying now. It didn't make sense to me in your prior posts.

[WNYBuckHunter]

One more REALLY BIG thing......remember, if a guy can only shoot one buck, then he goes out and shoots a doe in place of that 2nd buck right?  Well that doe most probably would produce at the minimum a single fawn but very possibly two fawns.  All that along with the usual antlerless kill.

 

So, instead of a guy killing a 2nd buck, he has possibly killed three deer by tagging one doe in place of that 2nd buck.

 

No disputing that.

 

AR's and OBR will be a way of population control, back door style.

 

How many guys kill 2 bucks per year in NY?

[jjb4900]

I still find it hard to believe that some guys are totally baffled that other hunters are perfectly satisfied shooting any deer whether it be a spike, doe or big 10pt, and are just as excited regardless of what it is.......and look forward to doing the same thing year after year with no regrets.........it's a frigging animal for Christ's Sake!!!! no different to many than a rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else they hunt and kill for enjoyment or whatever it is they get out of it. 

[dbHunterNY]

I understand what you are saying now. It didn't make sense to me in your prior posts.

 

the second chapter to all this is habitat like some of us have said... improving the productivity of the deer herd to keep up with the harvest pressure year after year does us no good if the land doesn't have the holding capacity to support more deer.  that's why DEC and the state comes into play for areas like the catskills and Adirondacks where improvement of habitat can happen but it still needs to be preserved for what it is.  For private land... DEC can bring in or contract people that know their stuff to teach seminars or hold classes that teach the private land owner how to improve his habitat to hold more deer or whatever else.  DEC is the middle man that collects a fee for the class.  they look like a hero, get more money, and NYS becomes more educated.  that's for another thread though.

[Doc]

I still find it hard to believe that some guys are totally baffled that other hunters are perfectly satisfied shooting any deer whether it be a spike, doe or big 10pt, and are just as excited regardless of what it is.......and look forward to doing the same thing year after year with no regrets.........it's a frigging animal for Christ's Sake!!!! no different to many than a rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else they hunt and kill for enjoyment or whatever it is they get out of it. 

Yeah, we need to figure out a way of screwing up hunting for rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else we hunt by establishing Pope & Young, and Boone & Crockett scoring. Worst thing tat ever happened to deer hunting was when we started to assign numbers as a measurement of success. What a goofy idea. That is when competition between man and beast became competition between hunter and hunter. Kind of began all this in-fighting and crazy antler worship.

[BizCT]

anyone have a B&C membership? I'm curious how many bucks make B&C from New York each year. I would think only a handful. I can't search without a membership.

 

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/trophySearch.asp?area=bgRecords

Edited January 9, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yeah, we need to figure out a way of screwing up hunting for rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else we hunt by establishing Pope & Young, and Boone & Crockett scoring. Worst thing tat ever happened to deer hunting was when we started to assign numbers as a measurement of success. What a goofy idea. That is when competition between man and beast became competition between hunter and hunter. Kind of began all this in-fighting and crazy antler worship.

Doc,

 

I would tie that in with the loss of large tracts of land capable of being hunted by a group and the fall off of traditional hunting camps. Kind of made it more of an individual pursuit and changed the focus.

[Five Seasons]

Yeah, we need to figure out a way of screwing up hunting for rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else we hunt by establishing Pope & Young, and Boone & Crockett scoring. Worst thing tat ever happened to deer hunting was when we started to assign numbers as a measurement of success. What a goofy idea. That is when competition between man and beast became competition between hunter and hunter. Kind of began all this in-fighting and crazy antler worship.

 

It is considered a sport. Men are competitive. Some men are better at sports than others. I still don't see how it could be shocking that we got to this point? I do agree that it's a little out of control, but I blame marketing on that.

 

[Doc]

I don't think those with good land should be punished or made to feel bad that they're fortunate enough to have it. Whether it was lease, permission or purchased with hard earned dollars. Good land in and of itself is a great challenge......

I absolutely agree, just like I believe that those with marginal deer herds, and without the means to afford leases, or heavily populated deer havens should be punished with over regulation and a raising of the bar in areas where the current bar is already nearly out of reach.

[jjb4900]

I'd rather spend my money lounging at a swim up bar at a Jamaican or Mexican resort 2 or 3 times a year than investing it in chasing the giant mystical whitetail..........I can satisfy my hunting needs for next to nothing a few miles from home on public land and will continue to do so until I can't for one reason or another.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

How many guys kill 2 bucks per year in NY?

Just about every hunter i know. Mostly mature bucks. 1 new hunter out of 6 was the only hunter not to take 2 this year. Thats hunting very good,well managed land with good numbers.

 Granted that is a very small number in the big picture. I would also say that many that kill 2 bucks a year still somehow end up still having their buck tag at the end of the year.  I also believe that now that Ny made the new rule that there is no early bow season from Sept 27 thru the 1st of Oct there will be more people using their own buck tag. Cant carry it oves so might as well use it.     

 That was a good move.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yeah, we need to figure out a way of screwing up hunting for rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else we hunt by establishing Pope & Young, and Boone & Crockett scoring. Worst thing tat ever happened to deer hunting was when we started to assign numbers as a measurement of success. What a goofy idea. That is when competition between man and beast became competition between hunter and hunter. Kind of began all this in-fighting and crazy antler worship.

Thats not the only place where numbers were attached to whitetail's.

[jjb4900]

Just about every hunter i know. Mostly mature bucks also. 1 new hunter out of 6 was the only hunter not to take 2 this year. Thats hunting very good,well managed land with good numbers.

and you probably accomplish that every year without being told what to shoot and because of what you have to work with and how you manage..........I don't see how the DEC expects that to be accomplished on poor, unmanaged public land that offers the deer nothing in the way of decent food except maybe every other year IF there's a good acorn or Beech nut crop.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

and you probably accomplish that every year without being told what to shoot and because of what you have to work with and how you manage..........I don't see how the DEC expects that to be accomplished on poor, unmanaged public land that offers the deer nothing in the way of decent food except maybe every other year IF there's a good acorn or Beech nut crop.

I believe thats where the breaking up of the counties come in. If they have Ar and Obr it will be in high doe populated area,s. There will be no Ar,a Obr and no doe tags in some areas,  It will confuse most of us i am sure but they are going to throw something together in the next 5 months so it can go to print. Will be interesting to see if any of the user's of this site end up being one of the 7000 to give their comments.

[jjb4900]

I believe thats where the breaking up of the counties come in. If they have Ar and Obr it will be in high doe populated area,s. There will be no Ar,a Obr and no doe tags in some areas,  It will confuse most of us i am sure but they are going to throw something together in the next 5 months so it can go to print. Will be interesting to see if any of the user's of this site end up being one of the 7000 to give their comments.

well, if that's their plan then great......I believe it needs to be broken down and looked at on a smaller scale as opposed to statewide. I wonder how closely DEC has studied the bucks that are now being killed in that original cluster of AR zones, are they nice mature bucks or just bucks that have eeked their way into what is considered legal and nothing more?

Edited January 9, 2015 by jjb4900

[First-light]

Here is a real scenario in my neck of the woods . The hunting camp next to me has 90% of them coming from out-of-state. Out of 10 of them only 3 get doe tags because they are land owners. They hunt for meat, any buck will do. Of course shooting a big one is nice. If AR's were put in place  I would hope the dec would include out-of-state hunters in the DMP lottery to keep them coming back. If this isn't the case we may lose more hunters. 

[jjb4900]

Here is a real scenario in my neck of the woods . The hunting camp next to me has 90% of them coming from out-of-state. Out of 10 of them only 3 get doe tags because they are land owners. They hunt for meat, any buck will do. Of course shooting a big one is nice. If AR's were put in place  I would hope the dec would include out-of-state hunters in the DMP lottery to keep them coming back. If this isn't the case we may lose more hunters. 

I think that's were they need to tread very lightly, any major changes too quickly could drastically effect hunter participation.....there's no question that there are areas that would have little effect on hunter satisfaction with the implementation of AR's because they probably see numerous shooter bucks that exceed the AR limit and they offer greater opportunities to obtain DMP's based on a high deer population...other areas, not so much.