Really! Does only.....

[LetEmGrow]

And here are the results of those kinds of attitudes. The hunting public has gotten very sophisticated in their abilities to thwart the efforts of the DEC. It has gotten to the point where the DEC has to keep adding on more and more ridiculous regulations and a growing list of complex tricks and gimmicks in a failing attempt to force hunters to do what they want them to do. When the DEC loses credibility, they also lose the cooperation of hunters. I believe that a lot of the hunters would really take out more does if they truly believed in the necessity of it. Or at the very least they would say with some confidence that the DEC needs to be helped in their effort to thin the herd, if they truly understood the DEC methodology and believed them to be credible in their claims. A little education could sure save a lot of rules-making and enforcement nightmares. Or maybe they can't explain it all ...... oh-oh ..... lol.

 

Bingo

[WNYBuckHunter]

But what if you jus left it at one buck?  So if you kill one buck then you have to kill two does to get another buck tag?  I can't say that I do not give some confidence to this idea.  But how many people would lie?

 

The state is broke so I do not know how they could possibly monitor this other than relying (libtards favorite word) on the guy at Walmart to show him X number of filled doe tags.

 

They need to reduce the emphasis on buck harvest and also reduce the length of time to harvest antlered deer with a firearm to cut down on the number of people that fill other peoples tags.

It is a rampant problem.  Most people will not poach a deer out of season (although far too many do).  But with that much firearm season they are people out there pursuing antlered deer who do not have the tag or will use someone else's before they use theirs.  And I best most of those deer do not get reported.

 

Its an incentive to get people to shoot does. You want another buck tag? Shoot does.

 

Of course there will be people that lie, you cant build a system around that, because no matter what you do there will be some bad apples.

 

There are ways to make it happen, take your filled DMP along with the deer carcass, or head to a check in station (doesnt need to be manned by DEC, use processors, etc) and receive a tag to take in and redeem for your buck tag. Other states have similar things, we can do it here too.

 

How exactly do you propose they reduce emphasis on buck harvest?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

But what if you jus left it at one buck?  So if you kill one buck then you have to kill two does to get another buck tag?  I can't say that I do not give some confidence to this idea.  But how many people would lie?

 

The state is broke so I do not know how they could possibly monitor this other than relying (libtards favorite word) on the guy at Walmart to show him X number of filled doe tags.

 

 

Currently in 8C (at least it was a we years ago) you can take as many does as you want, just have to keep checking them in. not sure about the other areas but the WMU's impacted in Region 8 are a pretty easy trip to region 8 headquarters.

[jjb4900]

Currently in 8C (at least it was a we years ago) you can take as many does as you want, just have to keep checking them in. not sure about the other areas but the WMU's impacted in Region 8 are a pretty easy trip to region 8 headquarters.

same thing in 1C on Long Island, pretty simple.........

[growalot]

This made me go through and check the last few years...I have taken doe within that first 2 wks and then doe during the gun season ...Bucks(usually just 1) were taken in between the doe kills...All this is doing and I'd actually take a bet on this...Is moving hunters that do shoot doe out of the areas they want doe shot.

It has nothing to do with whether I am willing to do my part shooting doe..I already do that...it has every thing to do with how they want to implement more doe being shot. I won't support a bad plan. A plan that makes no sense..gives no incentive to go out and hunt the doe.

Lets not play the..... incentive should be herd management card...for hunters such as myself have been doing our part in that regard...
So what happens? The DEC comes in and says.... Hey thanks, but for your  positive effort and the lack of effort on the part of other hunters. We'er now taking away your ability to shoot a nice buck as well as those doe, should one appear...Thank You very much for your support. I am taking a real burn on that..... Now the earliest I have taken any bow buck has been the end of Oct...but that's not the point. They want to take my ability to choose away, on my hunting grounds...not everyones hunting grounds.. no..... just for those hunters in 10 units...Not all hunters in those 10 units...just bow hunters...What the hell kind of attitude did they really expect from hunters, with a stance such as this?

[WNYBuckHunter]

You are dead on grow. They shouldnt be taking the choice away, especially from those of us that already shoot does and try to manage the herds on our properties already. They need to put an incentive out there for the people that dont think about it, or bother trying to manage their deer. Lets face it, not all hunters are as gung ho as some of us are, the vast majority see and treat it as a hobby they partake in for a few weeks each year if they have time. They arent really interested in what it takes to even attempt to manage deer numbers in the areas they hunt.

[phade]

I know people are really talking about the comment period, and that we must believe in this process. We should all do what we can.

 

However, changes for the 2016 season are merely a formality according to the language I have been shown - and all of it really isn't bowhunter friendly, especially when you consider the sources. A gentle paraphrase would be - Access will always be an issue...bowhunters should be careful about making noise on the current regs proposed as the next step is early muzzleloader.

 

We're in an either/or proposition at this point. Very small chance this gets in for 2015, minimal at best, because of timelines being pushed back. 2016 is it, however. Good thing Iowa is looking like a potential 2016 trip. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2015 by phade

[NYBuckHunter27]

Let's just say i cant wait till we hear something from the DEC on this topic. Anybody have any idea how long before they give any further details or decisions? i see that some believe nothing will happen for 2015, but it wouldn't be the first time our govt or DEC has pushed something through before season....

[LetEmGrow]

Its an incentive to get people to shoot does. You want another buck tag? Shoot does.

 

Of course there will be people that lie, you cant build a system around that, because no matter what you do there will be some bad apples.

 

There are ways to make it happen, take your filled DMP along with the deer carcass, or head to a check in station (doesnt need to be manned by DEC, use processors, etc) and receive a tag to take in and redeem for your buck tag. Other states have similar things, we can do it here too.

 

How exactly do you propose they reduce emphasis on buck harvest?

 

With one buck tag. 

[Doc]

See, here is where the weekend warriors, or those who don't live, eat, and breathe hunting are actually doing a better job of serving as a management tool. Those hunters who have limited time to git-'er-done will actually have no problem shooting does, or whatever first comes by (usually doe, fawn, whatever). No antler fever or great expectations that they are supposed to be taking trophy animals. They are simply out there to get a deer (any deer) and go have a good breakfast and then go finish off their weekend chores.

 

It's the ones that think they are experts that feel that they have to shoot only monster bucks. Shooting a lowly doe is beneath their station as an "expert" hunter.....lol.

[growalot]

DOC... In this particular situation the "weekend warrior" is irrelevant. IMO..For one thing I have actually only heard that referenced toward gun hunters and even a weekend warrior would choose weekends not in the first 2 weeks if they have limited time.

[Doc]

DOC... In this particular situation the "weekend warrior" is irrelevant. IMO..For one thing I have actually only heard that referenced toward gun hunters and even a weekend warrior would choose weekends not in the first 2 weeks if they have limited time.

That was a general comment across all seasons and at any time within those seasons, bow, gun, harpoon, whatever.

 

There are those that see success as taking any deer (and good for them), and then those that take themselves so seriously that nothing but a buck, and perhaps a trophy at that, will do. Those are the ones who think that doe hunting is beneath them. The culture of so-called expert hunters has become a primary problem that is at cross-purposes to the DEC's management goals. All this aided by the videos and Saturday morning hunting programs and all the current gang of hunter-heroes and the magazine articles that have convinced everyone that the only measure of hunting success is the number of inches of antler. Everything else is touted as a waste of time and a sign of hunting incompetency.

 

Thank heavens there are still a crop of newbies and those that don't take themselves quite so seriously that are there to control population numbers. These are the people that the DEC has to get ahold of and indoctrinate in the ways of deer management before they too become brainwashed into the mentality of trophyism.

[WNYBuckHunter]

With one buck tag.

Thats a good start, and I want to see that happen. I dont really see that as a solution to any population problems though. I feel that a one buck rule will cause alot more people to be choosy about the buck they harvest, but thats for another thread. I dont think one buck tag will ease any emphasis on shooting bucks though.

I think the second buck tag being available for the WMUs that need does taken as nothing more than an incentive to get harvest numbers inline with ehat they want, without taking choice away from anyone, or sticking an early muzzle loader season in place. I didnt come up with that idea, I heard it from a few people seperately, thought about it and agree that it might work. Theres no guarantees it would work, but its worth a shot.

I also agree with people that say making doe tags available to anyone over the counter in those WMUs would be a good way to go.

[nyantler]

That was a general comment across all seasons and at any time within those seasons, bow, gun, harpoon, whatever.

 

There are those that see success as taking any deer (and good for them), and then those that take themselves so seriously that nothing but a buck, and perhaps a trophy at that, will do. Those are the ones who think that doe hunting is beneath them. The culture of so-called expert hunters has become a primary problem that is at cross-purposes to the DEC's management goals. All this aided by the videos and Saturday morning hunting programs and all the current gang of hunter-heroes and the magazine articles that have convinced everyone that the only measure of hunting success is the number of inches of antler. Everything else is touted as a waste of time and a sign of hunting incompetency.

 

Thank heavens there are still a crop of newbies and those that don't take themselves quite so seriously that are there to control population numbers. These are the people that the DEC has to get ahold of and indoctrinate in the ways of deer management before they too become brainwashed into the mentality of trophyism.

 

You could POSSIBLY be right... but I would bet that the newbies or the weekend warriors make up the greater part of the 75% of hunters that aren't successful each year. I would also contend that the serious QDM fellas are not only hunting bigger bucks, but also taking out their fair share of does as well... with many of them actually tagging out each year. There may be some validity to what you're saying but not necessarily to the extent you portrayed... I don't know many trophy hunters that still won't fill a doe tag if possible during the year... there still are some old school hunters out there that will shoot any buck but refuse to kill a doe just because that's the way they grew up hunting. Just my take on it.

[Doc]

You could POSSIBLY be right... but I would bet that the newbies or the weekend warriors make up the greater part of the 75% of hunters that aren't successful each year. I would also contend that the serious QDM fellas are not only hunting bigger bucks, but also taking out their fair share of does as well... with many of them actually tagging out each year. There may be some validity to what you're saying but not necessarily to the extent you portrayed... I don't know many trophy hunters that still won't fill a doe tag if possible during the year... there still are some old school hunters out there that will shoot any buck but refuse to kill a doe just because that's the way they grew up hunting. Just my take on it.

Yeah, I think you are right. The newbies may have their head in the right place relative to shooting does, but perhaps just don't have the ability necessary to put that "good attitude" into practice .... lol. But I do know that the notion of letting the doe walk in hopes that a buck may be following, still has a lot of popularity among the trophy-ites. Newbies don't seem to have that stuck in their minds yet.

[dbHunterNY]

You could POSSIBLY be right... but I would bet that the newbies or the weekend warriors make up the greater part of the 75% of hunters that aren't successful each year. I would also contend that the serious QDM fellas are not only hunting bigger bucks, but also taking out their fair share of does as well... with many of them actually tagging out each year. There may be some validity to what you're saying but not necessarily to the extent you portrayed... I don't know many trophy hunters that still won't fill a doe tag if possible during the year... there still are some old school hunters out there that will shoot any buck but refuse to kill a doe just because that's the way they grew up hunting. Just my take on it.

 

this is exactly what I've seen.  we had one property that had everything needed to draw deer in and did.  it was larger too so we gave them I think 9 DMAPs and stressed to use them first opposed to any other antlerless permit.  we track DMAPs very well and figured it'd serve us and DEC better that way.  inexperienced hunter and weekend warrior fumbles led to not a single doe being shot there, with many blown opportunities.  also we've got boat loads of old school hunters that won't shoot a single momma to next years buck but would otherwise be willing to shoot any legal buck.  serious hunters filled all the tags they could or felt they should in a responsible way.  had many inexperienced hunters of all ages that accepted a mentor and were very successful.  a good number even took both doe and a very respectable buck.

[orion]

Maybe it's because bowhunters percentage wise take far fewer antlers deer then other hunters. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Maybe it's because bowhunters percentage wise take far fewer antlers deer then other hunters. 

As a percentage compared to what? Fewer Antlered deer in terms of overall harvest numbers or fewer antlered deer compared to the Archery totals?

[Meat First]

I bet if they opened a doe only season in these specific areas for the month of September hunters would flock to them. Limiting existing seasons (OBR, doe only in Oct, ect.) seems to be counterproductive to bringing down the population.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Why would OBR be counter productive?

[Meat First]

Just thinking that passing up shooting any deer is one less deer killed.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

You need to shoot the does to lower the numbers in the long run. If you can only shoot one buck, it may prompt more to shoot does, especially if you start adding incentives.

[Meat First]

My hunting partner hasn't shot a doe in over 25 years and I don't think an OBR is going to make him start now. Main point is we should be expanding hunter opportunity and not limiting it.

[moog5050]

You need to shoot the does to lower the numbers in the long run. If you can only shoot one buck, it may prompt more to shoot does, especially if you start adding incentives.

 

And even more so for the hunter that shoots a buck early.  Only option is doe is they want to continue to hunt.  I would be in favor of the OBR.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My hunting partner hasn't shot a doe in over 25 years and I don't think an OBR is going to make him start now. Main point is we should be expanding hunter opportunity and not limiting it.

 

So assuming you hunt in one of the areas that need more does taken, what if you have to shoot a couple of does to get that second buck tag? Might he reconsider? Why is he passing does?

 

Ive said it before, but I think a OBR is a good thing for completely different reasons other than population control. Buck hunting does not reduce the population enough to be a real tool for that. Hunter opportunity is a good thing, but a balanced herd needs to be taken into consideration.