Low and High Deer Populations

[jjb4900]

I never thru DEC into to begin with so let's take that thought and throw it out

oh. thought you did....I said "believe it or not, deer really aren't that important in the Grand Scheme of things........." and you responded with "jjb4900 - if deer aren't important at the time being then what does the DEC do all day"......and since it was about deer and you said ".jjb4900 - they manage all wild life and bust business owners balls like mine".....I figured DEC played into it somehow......my apologies.

[DirtTime]

I am not sure I understand the initial post. To make things clear, the OP want's to relocate deer from high population areas to low populations areas? Correct?

Well, who is going to accomplish this? That would be the DEC and ECO.

As for the money the state puts into those other things, that's a red tape and paper game with more money being spent to lobby then just to sign the piece of paper in front of people who vote these things in. I never got why it costs so much to get a piece of paper signed. But it does.

As for a deer relocation process? Still have the bureaucratic BS., add the cost of traps, gas, and man hours to it. I am guessing that would be a steep bill.

If you have an over population out there in Oneida Co ( actually more central NY then upstate ), let some of us know. We will be happy to come on over and thin the herds.

[nyantler]

If you have an over population out there in Oneida Co ( actually more central NY then upstate ), let some of us know. We will be happy to come on over and thin the herds.

If that were true there wouldn't be a problem with hunters complaining there are no deer... most are not committed enough to travel to hunt deer. Most aren't even inclined to leave their treestand when they aren't seeing deer. I have always contended that what most consider low deer populations is just personal bad hunting practices and an inability to see the deer that are present in the area.

[jjb4900]

If that were true there wouldn't be a problem with hunters complaining there are no deer... most are not committed enough to travel to hunt deer. Most aren't even inclined to leave their treestand when they aren't seeing deer. I have always contended that what most consider low deer populations is just personal bad hunting practices and an inability to see the deer that are present in the area.

I'm guilty of some of what you said....have a house in the zone we hunt, not moving or travelling just to kill more deer...I can do that on L.I. at home, I also know there are mature deer in our hunting areas Upstate, don't have the time or devotion to put towards killing them exclusively, nowadays I get more enjoyment out of just getting up there into the fresh air and away from this rat race on The Island......I'm well aware of what the problem is and could fix it if it were that important......phew! I feel better getting that off my chest

[Taylormike]

It's money, bottom-line...  However, you wouldn't want to risk spreading disease or any other contamination.  I don't know how low some low-population deer areas really are.

 

I don't think food is the entire issue.  I think there is a lack of deer hunters.  For instance, behind my house I've been watching a small 6 and the other night a big bodied 8 was strolling through.  You know how many neighbors I mention that there was a deer or two in their yard.  They reply, " really???  We've lived here 15 years and have never seen one."  I almost find it impossible to believe but maybe.

 

I don't think the deer numbers are great but the deer are around...

Edited October 28, 2015 by Taylormike

[DirtTime]

If that were true there wouldn't be a problem with hunters complaining there are no deer... most are not committed enough to travel to hunt deer. Most aren't even inclined to leave their treestand when they aren't seeing deer. I have always contended that what most consider low deer populations is just personal bad hunting practices and an inability to see the deer that are present in the area.

This is true.

 

I am just trying to figure out what the post is about. A vent from an aggravated hunter? A serious question about relocating deer? Or about political spending on the topics brought up?

[jjb4900]

This is true.

 

I am just trying to figure out what the post is about. A vent from an aggravated hunter? A serious question about relocating deer? Or about political spending on the topics brought up?

all three???

[Huntscreek]

This Messed up deer population is the fault NYS not knowing how to manage a deer heard. Did you ever read a NYS DEC wildlife survey, From Small game to big game its piss poor. When was the last time the State worked on Habitat in all counties. Thanks to your local farmer or fellow hunter's for doing what little is being done for improving Habitat.   

Edited October 29, 2015 by Huntscreek

[jjb4900]

Oh God.....

[DirtTime]

This might get interesting.

[jjb4900]

now it's the local farmer's fault? oh boy......

[Huntscreek]

Its Not The Farmer Fault Its The Local Famers And Fellow hunters that are planting and Growing Food and Habitat. By spending Millions on Seed and Planting land that other wise would not hold Deer. Its the States FAULT they do Very little to improve Habitat for small & big game In NY

Edited October 29, 2015 by Huntscreek

[jjb4900]

Its Not The Farmer Fault Its The Local Famers And Fellow hunters that are planting and Growing Food and Habitat. By spending Millions on Seed and Planting land that other wise would not hold Deer. Its the States FAULT they do Very little to improve Habitat for small & big game In NY

Edited October 29, 2015 by jjb4900

[Canis Latrans]

now it's the local farmer's fault? oh boy......

No he said they are the only ones doing anything that helps the deer...

I don't know what it's about, but the only thing I learned from this thread is that there is at least one clueless idiot everywhere you look. (Not talking about you jjb).

[DirtTime]

I don't know what it's about, but the only thing I learned from this thread is that there is at least one clueless idiot everywhere you look. (Not talking about you jjb).

 

 

Pardon me?

[nyslowhand]

Duh,..just put up signs, they'll follow them & self-relocate!

[upstatehunter]

If money is an issue, then why is it possible to have fish hatcheries that cost how many millions? And no I'm not saying farm deer

[Jmny]

This is really a comical thread. Cost of doing something is,always taken into consideration. Where there is an overpopulation of deer, hunting is a good means of reducing the population. But probably more than a,day. And it is a cost effective method.

Now to address the lack of deer in certain areas. It's the states fault? You have to be kidding me, As stated there are many reasons for areas with low deer populations. How about over population of humans(pressure) and lack of habitat(food), You know I've bass fished in many ny lakes. Never thought of blaming the state for the days were my catches didn't meet my expectations.

If they have chosen to live in an area with a low deer population deer hunting wasn't a high priority. After the fact the ludicrous suggestion that the state relocate the deer to their area? So, they don't have to be put out with traveling to the other 90% of the state with decent deer populations. Yes they might have to invest some time and money, but they would rather have the state invest the money to make their life easier. Notice the paradox? Sounds like the appropriate term for relocating deer should be called hunters WELFARE. Yes the state should use the monies collected from all of us, to satisfy these lazy hunters. If your hunting experience only has meaning with a kill, the country is loaded with deer farms were you can buy(shoot) trophy deer. in any case judging the size of the deer herd has to be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

To the two members that submitted the twilight zone and deer sign( they will follow) posting I appreciate your humor.

To the members that feel the need to control the thought process of others by submitting numerous posting concerning the thread, a more concise posting would be appreciated, Unless the number of posting under your name validates your hunting prowess.

[Huntscreek]

Conservation Management. Hunt  in other states and see how it works. 

[Doc]

I will say that when it comes to deer population management, the buck really does stop with the DEC. They are the ones with Cornell supposedly overlooking and helping with the marvelous statistical methods which they are constantly telling us are flawless and endorsed by great statistical institutions. They are the ones with their fingers on the antlerless permits allocations. They are the ones that have all this staff of highly trained biologists. They are the ones that in the end are charged with being sure that the proper outcomes are arrived at. The only thing that hunters are responsible for is the final pull of the trigger finger which is heavily controlled and regulated by the DEC. Unexpected natural causes such as weather can upset plans, but then it is up to the DEC to take remedial actions in the following year/s. If landowner access is a problem, then perhaps there is an area that they need to really work on. At any rate, that is not a problem that hunters can fix or it would have been by now.

 

You have areas where deer are scarce, the DEC has the power to control that all the way to totally shutting down the season if need be. You have areas of too high a population, the DEC has the ability to control that all the way to totally opening up deer seasons to year around, or unlimited and unregulated and free of charge antlerless harvests. So unless we reach the point of not having any hunters at all, the DEC has total control of all the tools necessary to adjust deer numbers to whatever level their CTFs determine is to their liking (or financial benefit). If they can't meet their goals, that is an internal problem within their own walls that should get straightened up.

 

So you all can beat on bowhunters and gun hunters all you want, but the final responsibility for wildlife management always comes back to those who are being paid for it.

 

 

[upstatehunter]

DOC is spot on

[WNYBuckHunter]

This really has the be the stupidest thread Ive ever seen on this site.

 

Anyone saying the DEC has total responsibility on how many deer are in a given area, is not thinking about all of the other variables involved (habitat, food quality, food availability, hunting levels, predator numbers, etc).

 

Talking about forgoing people's rights (whether you think they are important or not) to be able to spend millions to drop deer into an area so you can shoot them? Thats nuts, and theres no other way to put it. Dont have many deer in your area, but hunting is important to you? Hunt somewhere else, or buy a big chunk of land and improve it. Spend YOUR money to improve YOUR hunting.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

This really has the be the stupidest thread Ive ever seen on this site.

 

Anyone saying the DEC has total responsibility on how many deer are in a given area, is not thinking about all of the other variables involved (habitat, food quality, food availability, hunting levels, predator numbers, etc).

 

Talking about forgoing people's rights (whether you think they are important or not) to be able to spend millions to drop deer into an area so you can shoot them? Thats nuts, and theres no other way to put it. Dont have many deer in your area, but hunting is important to you? Hunt somewhere else, or buy a big chunk of land and improve it. Spend YOUR money to improve YOUR hunting.

Refer to post #3..lol

[upstatehunter]

So where do you suggest we hunt when deer numbers are down in are area. I live in 6k. I get a 6k doe tag. Deer sightings are low. I go get a left over doe tag and it's for 3 hours away. Doesn't seem fesibal to me. Now to find decent state property. Also Dec has the power to create better habitat. Drive by the Montezuma swamp

[grampy]

No one is responsible for my professional success or failure but myself. If I am not making what I think I should for the job I do. Then I need to look elsewhere. Same with hunting. If I am not happy with the deer numbers or quality where I am hunting, then I need to look elsewhere. No one should have to hold my hand, pat my head and say "it's OK, we will drop more deer in the area for you"! If you are not killing or seeing enough deer, become a better hunter or find greener pastures! Quit complaining and just hunt!