.223 Deer

[nyantler]

Why would one not be willing to use a .223 for deer, but have no problem using an arrow. Now granted, the .223 would not be my first choice, but it is just as effective as any arrow for killing a deer... like an arrow, shot placement is the key... not a lot of room for error... but, we're talking about KILLING a deer here.. not splitting the atom.

[fasteddie]

Why would one not be willing to use a .223 for deer, but have no problem using an arrow. Now granted, the .223 would not be my first choice, but it is just as effective as any arrow for killing a deer... like an arrow, shot placement is the key... not a lot of room for error... but, we're talking about KILLING a deer here.. not splitting the atom.

 

Why not just go with a 22 hollow point . It's the same diameter ( .224 ) as a 223 . Just less speed and a lot less noise . 

[turkeyfeathers]

Why would one not be willing to use a .223 for deer, but have no problem using an arrow. Now granted, the .223 would not be my first choice, but it is just as effective as any arrow for killing a deer... like an arrow, shot placement is the key... not a lot of room for error... but, we're talking about KILLING a deer here.. not splitting the atom.

Thinking a good broad head does more carnal damage than a .223

[Steve D]

When they first opened rifle in the southern tier I hunted with a 30-06 and shot two deer with it. Both were hit good through the front shoulders and bled like stuck pigs. Both ran 75+yards even though they were hit hard.

 After that I started using the .223 with the Hornady 60 grain V-max. I have shot 5 deer with them and none of them went over 20 yds. The longest shots were 125 & 230 yards. Two of the five I have shot with it have dropped in their tracks.

  The disadvantage to the V-max is if they hit anything on the way (golden rod, tree branch, etc.)  they disintegrate. When they hit a deer they do the same thing and cause severe internal damage. Like crisw says there is hardly ever an exit hole and they don't leave a blood trail but if they drop where you shot them or close by you really don't need a blood trail.

  The other thing I like about the v-max is you don't have to worry about them traveling a long distance in case of a miss. They will more than likely hit something and disintegrate.

  I shoot them out of a Browning A-bolt which is a tack driver. Haven't lost one yet and haven't had to look for them like I did with the 30-06.

 

[fasteddie]

I have shot several deer with a 25-06 . They didn't go anywhere but down ! 

[BBDEric]

So he illegally shot a moose?

Yeah out of country hunt $$$$money spent on a fly in and yes he shot it all he had. After flying half way around county to hunt.

[Lawdwaz]

they do have a couple .17's that are center fire don't they?

 

Yes but I was referring to the posters mention of the 17 HMR. (Hornady Magnum Rimfire)

 

 

I bet its a crusher on big game, albeit illegal in NYS!

Edited January 3, 2016 by Lawdwaz

[G-Man]

Problem I have is there are a lot of bear around and a .223 with the right bullet for deer is fine, but, it won't work on a bear.. I like a little room for error as much as I pride myself as the best shot in the world, I know things happen...

[nyantler]

Why not just go with a 22 hollow point . It's the same diameter ( .224 ) as a 223 . Just less speed and a lot less noise .

Mostly because 22 hollow point is rim fire and not legal for deer... this picture also shows the difference.

[nyantler]

Thinking a good broad head does more carnal damage than a .223

No better than a good ballistic tip on the .223

Better range also with .223... like I said, not my choice for deer but certainly as good as any archery equipment if we're going to argue about the ethics of using .223... if that's what a hunter is confident using I don't see the problem.

[cdmckane]

I don't understand what the thrill is to be trying to kill game with the least effective equipment, but there seems to be some reason why people want to try it. The .22 hornet is a legal deer caliber in areas of NYS where rifles are legal. I'm waiting for someone to try to rationalize using it for deer hunting. Of course, given perfect circumstances, the hornet will kill a deer, but what would even make anyone try?

 

I know a guy who hunts deer with a .22 Hornet.  He only takes head shots and they drop in their tracks.  I won't hunt with him because of his tactics.  I much prefer to have something that has some mass and will leave a blood trail. 

[nyantler]

I don't understand what the thrill is to be trying to kill game with the least effective equipment, but there seems to be some reason why people want to try it. The .22 hornet is a legal deer caliber in areas of NYS where rifles are legal. I'm waiting for someone to try to rationalize using it for deer hunting. Of course, given perfect circumstances, the hornet will kill a deer, but what would even make anyone try?

For the same reason someone hunts with a longbow and wood arrows, or any archery equipment for that matter...especially if they choose to do so during the regular gun season. I don't see the difference between opting for a primitive hunting implement and choosing the smallest legal caliber. Small caliber rounds may not be my choice, but I understand the rationale behind using more challenging equipment.

[nyantler]

I know a guy who hunts deer with a .22 Hornet.  He only takes head shots and they drop in their tracks.  I won't hunt with him because of his tactics.  I much prefer to have something that has some mass and will leave a blood trail.

Why would you choose not to hunt with a guy who you just told us effectively and cleanly kills deer without having to track them... you prefer hunting with guys who's deer leave a blood trail where you have to track after the shot?

[Mr VJP]

How come nobody has endorsed the .222 Remington?  You guys got a problem with that round??

 

[chrisw]

I remember hearing a quote awhile back that went something like this, (maybe someone on here knows the true quote or who said it?)... "Don't use a bullet/caliber that works when everything goes right, use one that works when things don't." I think this has some merit.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[Doc]

For the same reason someone hunts with a longbow and wood arrows, or any archery equipment for that matter...especially if they choose to do so during the regular gun season. I don't see the difference between opting for a primitive hunting implement and choosing the smallest legal caliber. Small caliber rounds may not be my choice, but I understand the rationale behind using more challenging equipment.

I'm big on the challenge idea. That really is what all hunting is all about in one form or another for me. But for me it is about challenging myself with absolutely lethal equipment whether that be gun or archery. I don't go deer hunting with flu-flu arrows and field tips, just to see if it can be done.

[fasteddie]

Mostly because 22 hollow point is rim fire and not legal for deer... this picture also shows the difference.

.223.jpg

 

 

No fooling ! You brought up the bit about "the Challange"  . Why not just make the 22 legal . 

[Skillet]

My son killed this fallow doe yesterday with a .223. Hornady 55gr V-max. 100yds. Demolished both lungs. Was it an ideal gun? no. But he was comfortable & accurate with it.

[Mr VJP]

If you hit the shoulder with those V-Max bullets, they will not penetrate into the vitals at all.  They just blow up on the shoulder and cripple the deer.  I prefer a good deer bullet that will penetrate.

[nyantler]

No fooling ! You brought up the bit about "the Challange"  . Why not just make the 22 legal . 

Only in relation to understanding why a hunter might choose a .223... I am not an advocate for using small calibers if I'm recommending a deer rifle. My point was that there is no difference ethically between the .223 and any arrow... I agree with the argument that it's not the "best" caliber for deer... I don't agree with the argument about there being an ethical problem with a lower caliber, especially since you could make the same argument for archery equipment. The use of either would depend a lot on the proficiency and the shot choices of the person using the weapon.

[nyantler]

I'm big on the challenge idea. That really is what all hunting is all about in one form or another for me. But for me it is about challenging myself with absolutely lethal equipment whether that be gun or archery. I don't go deer hunting with flu-flu arrows and field tips, just to see if it can be done.

I'm with ya... Yet, there isn't a question of whether a .223 "can" get the job done... just whether or not you or I want to be the one doing it. I don't see a problem with it if that's someone else choice and they are confident in their shooting ability.. you could make the same anti .223 arguments for any caliber rifle or archery equipment in the hands of someone that can't shoot. For some guys anything short of a cannon would be considered undergunned

[nyantler]

How come nobody has endorsed the .222 Remington?  You guys got a problem with that round??

Not having a problem with a hunters legal bullet choice is not the same as endorsing that bullet.

[Skillet]

If you hit the shoulder with those V-Max bullets, they will not penetrate into the vitals at all. They just blow up on the shoulder and cripple the deer. I prefer a good deer bullet that will penetrate.

I didn't know that. He wanted to use my crossbow, & he's pretty good with it. But, there's no sneaking up on these fallows. They were in a herd of about 18 or 20 doe / fawns.

So, my friend (the owner) said to use his 223. My kid shoots that rifle often, when we go to visit them. He was familiar with it, so he went for it.

I don't own a 223, or claim to know much of anything about bullets, so I had no idea this was a poor choice. Luckily, it worked out because he shot well. Had I known about the poor bullet choice, I'd have asked for a different load.

I wasn't posting this to offer any input on the argument, because I don't have any valid input. I just coincidentally got into this situation yesterday, & thought I'd add it to the thread.

My mistake on bullet choice.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Skillet

[Elmo]

I remember hearing a quote awhile back that went something like this, (maybe someone on here knows the true quote or who said it?)... "Don't use a bullet/caliber that works when everything goes right, use one that works when things don't." I think this has some merit.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Very well stated. The question isn't "could it" but rather "should you". What advantages so you gain from using a 223? Unless you're old, a youth, or petite woman that simply can't handle a larger caliber, I think you owe it to the deer to use a larger caliber.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[First-light]

My neighbors Granddaughter uses a 223 and My niece. Both have taken deer with these guns. The smaller caliber is what these girls were after. Gun did its job for sure.