D.E.C. seeking hunter input on the rescinding 2015 of antlerless only

[Larry]

If you only want to hunt 8g you can get 4 dmp’s 2 in the first draw and 2 in the 2nd draw I have never been turn down for a dmp in 8g. That’s why it’s never my 1st choice or I wait till the 2nd draw to get one.

[Jmny]

Doc, as I stated,appreciate your oversight of my postings. Hate to struggle pecking away my message only to post something that is difficult for an individual to comprehend my train of thought. As is, something posted yesterday by Gjs4. He mentioned an article that interested me, but failed to state were the article could be found. "DEC accepting outgoing NY commentary to an unopened email account-be prepared to get aggravated in 2017"

By the way, Larry thank you for injecting a variable that I have overlooked in the state limiting deer take in certain DMP's, with antlerless only for the first couple weeks of the archery season.

If Gjs4 or anyone that has the location of the article, I'd appreciate a reference.

[Jmny]

Doc, as I stated,appreciate your oversight of my postings. Hate to struggle pecking away my message only to post something that is difficult for an individual to comprehend my train of thought. As is, something posted yesterday by Gjs4. He mentioned an article that interested me, but failed to state were the article could be found. "DEC accepting outgoing NY commentary to an unopened email account-be prepared to get aggravated in 2017"

By the way, Larry thank you for injecting a variable that I have overlooked in the state limiting deer take in certain DMP's, with antlerless only for the first couple weeks of the archery season.

If Gjs4 or anyone that has the location of the article, I'd appreciate a reference.

[phade]

If you only want to hunt 8g you can get 4 dmp’s 2 in the first draw and 2 in the 2nd draw I have never been turn down for a dmp in 8g. That’s why it’s never my 1st choice or I wait till the 2nd draw to get one.

 

And you need to wait until Nov 1 for the second draw, after the season has been open a full month.

 

I can't remember the first bow sit of the season where I haven't shot a deer. It's been more than five years.

[kpkot]

The problem with the above Kpkot is that the units where draw numbers and antlerless numbers are actually low - the bow/mz tag allows for does to be shot in addition to any DMPs. From what I understand, this has had a lot of impact in the NZ 'dacks area.

I totally understand that point. In order to truly get an accurate guage on doe management you would need to omit the antlerless bow/muzz. My selfishness took over lol.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I totally understand that point. In order to truly get an accurate guage on doe management you would need to omit the antlerless bow/muzz. My selfishness took over lol.

Personally I think the ENTIRE antlerless take across the state should be on the lottery system open to all hunters. That was one of my comments to the DEC in my response. 

[Jmny]

??? Entire antlerless system across the state should be on the lottery system open to all hunters??? Explain? Thought it was

[phade]

Meaning the statewide antlerless guaranteed tags and the ability to convert either sex or antlered tags to antlerless go away.

 

If you are a three season hunter, you can take your reg season buck tag and shoot a doe in ML with it. Think about that for a second in areas where doe numbers are low and they limit DMPs. It undermines the ability to control does.

[dbHunterNY]

I agree.  DMAPs have 100% reporting by nature are controlled and reported.  DMPs being the only other source of doe harvest will help have a better handle on doe take.  still buy the right to hunt the different seasons but a buck tag is only a buck tag and a doe tag only a doe (antlerless) tag.  tags aren't based on seasonal use anymore fill them as soon as you want if you payed for the privilege to hunt that season.

 

the way it is now even in a lower doe area I can take 3 doe by late season (some western dack units are an exception) but yea that's not even considering a DMP.

[tj1187]

IN East Hampton,LI  1 C . Shoot a doe  take the head to the dump they give you a paper to take to town hall and another tag is issued.

[Marion]

IN East Hampton,LI 1 C . Shoot a doe take the head to the dump they give you a paper to take to town hall and another tag is issued.

That sounds like a ton of work. Should be easier to just bring to a check station and then they can issue you a tag on the spot. The current way you described sounds like a lot of work on the part of the hunter

You Can't Beat My Meat!

[Dom]

I'm still for a Doe only take for 1 maybe 2 seasons.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Until all hunters are accounted for by forcing the reporting of every tag issued then nothing will change, They have no real clue as to what deer numbers truly are and are just spinning there wheels if a feel good manner.

Waste of time and effort.

[DirtTime]

Until all hunters are accounted for by forcing the reporting of every tag issued then nothing will change, They have no real clue as to what deer numbers truly are and are just spinning there wheels if a feel good manner.

Waste of time and effort.

This is a great point. If everyone reported kills maybe there wouldn't be all this BS from DEC about low numbers.

 

But, even the DEC can't account for poachers who don't even have a license. There is no way to get factual numbers with these people doing what they do.

[Fredbear2]

We have Camp in 8p northern Steuben county . Minutes from Naples .i Never had more than one dmp there. Few years back I had one each year. Last year never got one. This year I passed on the first draw and picked different areas . First low second none. What the hell are they doing in that area .,I can always sit there and between 3 of use always see numbers of doe's. We had one dmp at camp this year . One guy got denied for there . this season opening morning saw 10 doe no tag wtf. Pm sit 5 doe . We have 68 acres and never get far amount of doe tags . It's crap how dmp are spotty .

[Doc]

I am not sure exactly what kind of  "the sky is falling" disaster we have going in these selected WMUs but if it is a severe case of does not being harvested and causing ecological collapse, the answer may not be as complicated as people think. If those areas had the antlerless permitting system suspended, and a wide open season on does was established there, with no defined daily bag limits (take all you want), I think the DEC would have no problem cutting the herd down dramatically in just one year. Just keep shooting until you can't shoot anymore. I believe that that would make the DEC happy, and the CTFs all happy and all those with vested anti-deer financial interests happy. I really don't believe that it needs to be all that complex if all you want to do is get rid of deer. Of course those landowners who have their lands locked up will still leave pockets of under harvested deer. But short of government takeover of private lands, there is no real government wildlife management of those lands going on anyway. Punishing bow hunters because of access problems does nothing to solve this problem. It's just mindless panicky flailing about without a clue as what the hell they are doing...... with bowhunters in the middle.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I am not sure exactly what kind of  "the sky is falling" disaster we have going in these selected WMUs but if it is a severe case of does not being harvested and causing ecological collapse, the answer may not be as complicated as people think. If those areas had the antlerless permitting system suspended, and a wide open season on does was established there, with no defined daily bag limits (take all you want), I think the DEC would have no problem cutting the herd down dramatically in just one year. Just keep shooting until you can't shoot anymore. I believe that that would make the DEC happy, and the CTFs all happy and all those with vested anti-deer financial interests happy. I really don't believe that it needs to be all that complex if all you want to do is get rid of deer. Of course those landowners who have their lands locked up will still leave pockets of under harvested deer. But short of government takeover of private lands, there is no real government wildlife management of those lands going on anyway. Punishing bow hunters because of access problems does nothing to solve this problem. It's just mindless panicky flailing about without a clue as what the hell they are doing...... with bowhunters in the middle.

So true and if they listened to hunters they would be much further ahead.  Todays world is trophy deer like it or not. These leased lands and these tracts of private locked up lands are managed for big bucks. If Ny changed their stance on length of seasons, change of seasons and when hunting implements were allowed in those seasons they would be further ahead.  Most bigger tracts of land and bigger leased lands are already being ran by the hunters/owners regardless of what the DEC say they THINK should be taken. 

 

Most places hunters can run and manage their land better than the DEC because we know what we have for deer populations..

Its not just a guess.

[dbHunterNY]

DEC just had a couple meetings this past week based on those surveys for buck management and separate buck zones.  sounds like their pushing education on why to protect yearlings and not yet setting regulations for buck management.  this is a great step for bucks!  however, i hope they aren't dropping the ball.  I say this, because their assessment of current doe numbers are based on buck take objective compared to buck take and previous years doe harvest.  DEC's system really assumes equal chance a buck will get shot regardless of age class (their words not mine).  so as more and more yearlings are passed which is a good thing I hope they find a way to take this into account with their antiquated system.

[Buckstopshere]

DEC just had a couple meetings this past week based on those surveys for buck management and separate buck zones.  sounds like their pushing education on why to protect yearlings and not yet setting regulations for buck management.  this is a great step for bucks!  however, i hope they aren't dropping the ball.  I say this, because their assessment of current doe numbers are based on buck take objective compared to buck take and previous years doe harvest.  DEC's system really assumes equal chance a buck will get shot regardless of age class (their words not mine).  so as more and more yearlings are passed which is a good thing I hope they find a way to take this into account with their antiquated system.

 

It may be a bit off topic (topic being antlerless only) but it was reported in the last issue of the "New York Outdoor News" that the DEC is going to encourage hunters to pursue voluntary ARs instead of expanding the mandatory ARs this year, or for the next few years. And that the controversy will be put to bed for at least a number of years. Back to the antlerless only issue - it was also reported that the DEC is dropping the ill-conceived antlerless only first two week plan in at least some of the western units and all are under review. Remember the deadline for submitting your ideas is Valentine's Day.

 

[Doc]

Why are they beginning to firm up conclusions and setting some decisions up long before the conclusion of the comment period? What's up with that? Why ask for comments if the conclusions are going to begin to be established long before the comment period has ended? Is this comment period just a charade? Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Why are they beginning to firm up conclusions and setting some decisions up long before the conclusion of the comment period? What's up with that? Why ask for comments if the conclusions are going to begin to be established long before the comment period has ended? Is this comment period just a charade? Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

They are already drawn up and sitting on someones desk in Albany! 

[Buckstopshere]

Why are they beginning to firm up conclusions and setting some decisions up long before the conclusion of the comment period? What's up with that? Why ask for comments if the conclusions are going to begin to be established long before the comment period has ended? Is this comment period just a charade? Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

 

I don't think anything is set in stone yet on either proposal, at least there has been no formal announcement. But these reports show us the way the wind is blowing.

 

[gjs4]

If they really cared they'd have asked prior not post. One more year

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Culvercreek hunt club]

??? Entire antlerless system across the state should be on the lottery system open to all hunters??? Explain? Thought it was

You can take antlerless with  the either sex and antlerless Bow /  ML tags in areas that are not open or offer very few regular season "doer permits". All antlerless take should be on the lottery and opportunities given to all hunters, regardless of hunting implement chosen.  my two cents. 

[dbHunterNY]

It may be a bit off topic (topic being antlerless only) but it was reported in the last issue of the "New York Outdoor News" that the DEC is going to encourage hunters to pursue voluntary ARs instead of expanding the mandatory ARs this year, or for the next few years. And that the controversy will be put to bed for at least a number of years. Back to the antlerless only issue - it was also reported that the DEC is dropping the ill-conceived antlerless only first two week plan in at least some of the western units and all are under review. Remember the deadline for submitting your ideas is Valentine's Day.

 

 

i don't get NY Outdoor News... yet.  I'm just going off what i know was reported to me (2nd hand info) from the DEC meetings that took place on Feb 2nd and 4th about what's going on with buck management zone stuff possibly in the works.  i think it's good they're pushing for yearling harvest and education versus forcing people to do so, which gets complicated.  dropping the first two weeks as antlerless only is good and not just to make people happy again.  if they say the above stuff is solely based on a "social issue" versus biology i'll be pissed.  protecting a population of young bucks is beneficial in more ways than just happy hunters after bigger antlers.  with the limitations of the way their current system works i think having a better idea of actually doe harvest or doe populations will help them.  they just see it as if hitting the buck take objective or not means their was less deer or more deer than thought.  there's some things that influence the buck take in a major way to skew their perspective.  if doe tags where only WMU specific and in some cases lottery based they'd have a much better and quicker handle on population versus the lagging indication they get now.