Do gun laws make us safe?

[NFA-ADK]

http://www.americanpatriotdaily.com/latest/university-of-chicago-accidentally-proves-that-gun-control-laws-dont-work/#disqus_thread

Proof that gun laws do not stop criminals but will cause the common gun owner to become a criminal due to new laws. 

Another article states the Feds are not removing gun owner info, creating a data base for confiscation.

Preaching to the choir I know but good info.

Thoughts?

[BKhunter]

Personally I think with all the laws being passed and LOE guidelines its encouraging criminals to become more bold. If you break the law I see nothing wrong with a cop smashing you into the ground. I was watching TV recently where this kid in Chicago stole a run and was basically trying to run the cops over. When they gave chase and shot him in the back the news was saying the cops will most likely be prosecuted because when the criminal fled it was against guidelines for the cops to shoot a fleeing suspect.  Personally I'm waiting for the day when cops says they had enough and don't show up to work because they feel like they can't do their job without being prosecuted. 

[slickrockpack]

9 minutes ago, BKhunter said:

Personally I think with all the laws being passed and LOE guidelines its encouraging criminals to become more bold. If you break the law I see nothing wrong with a cop smashing you into the ground. I was watching TV recently where this kid in Chicago stole a run and was basically trying to run the cops over. When they gave chase and shot him in the back the news was saying the cops will most likely be prosecuted because when the criminal fled it was against guidelines for the cops to shoot a fleeing suspect.  Personally I'm waiting for the day when cops says they had enough and don't show up to work because they feel like they can't do their job without being prosecuted. 

couple counter points BK, I understand your points, however first and foremost this is America and if  the cops don't like their jobs they can quit, just like the guy at burger flippers R US, if they think it's that bad turn in your notice, world needs plenty of bartenders right?

another is the police are not judge and jury, so pounding a Suspected Criminal into the ground or shooting them Prior to be being judged and Convicted of the alleged crime is Fascism, not police work.

we have due process in America, for now, and that protects you and I from being randomly yanked out of our truck or house and beat to death, or jailed without being accused of a crime, or tried without a jury of our peers.

we are a nation of laws.

Innocent until Proven guilty, not Guilty because some civil servant who got D's in high school suspects in his heart that you broke a law, likely a law he or she does not fully understand but saw on TV so many times that they are sure it must be illegal.

further it is the state's or feds burden to prove guilt not your burden to prove your innocence.  I suspect the civil servants often forget the Servant term pretty much describes the relationship they are expected to have within society.

Disarm the police, take them out from behind their bullet proof glass and vests, and you'll find a much more Civil, civil servant.

maybe not.

[BKhunter]

27 minutes ago, slickrockpack said:

couple counter points BK, I understand your points, however first and foremost this is America and if  the cops don't like their jobs they can quit, just like the guy at burger flippers R US, if they think it's that bad turn in your notice, world needs plenty of bartenders right?

another is the police are not judge and jury, so pounding a Suspected Criminal into the ground or shooting them Prior to be being judged and Convicted of the alleged crime is Fascism, not police work.

we have due process in America, for now, and that protects you and I from being randomly yanked out of our truck or house and beat to death, or jailed without being accused of a crime, or tried without a jury of our peers.

we are a nation of laws.

Innocent until Proven guilty, not Guilty because some civil servant who got D's in high school suspects in his heart that you broke a law, likely a law he or she does not fully understand but saw on TV so many times that they are sure it must be illegal.

further it is the state's or feds burden to prove guilt not your burden to prove your innocence.  I suspect the civil servants often forget the Servant term pretty much describes the relationship they are expected to have within society.

Disarm the police, take them out from behind their bullet proof glass and vests, and you'll find a much more Civil, civil servant.

maybe not.

By no means do I think cops should be judge and jury and someone isn't entitled to their due process. I do also think there were and still are LOE that cross the line which is the reason for some of the regulations in place. All I am saying is I feel more laws and regulations have been put in place which gives a criminal more room to become more bold. 

[DirtTime]

This has been the case for a long, LONG, time. Most criminals, especially those in gangs carry handguns. Easily concealed and and to run with/get rid of.

 

I have no issue with NICS. I do believe in "Constitutional Carry". If You pass the NICS then you should be able to buy a handgun the same as a long gun. It's gotten so silly that now to buy certain ML's you have to pass a NICS check as well. But, Billy Badguy can buy just about anything he wants off the street. Even fully auto rifles. and worse.

 

I feel all this gun laws are actually doing more to help criminals then the law abiding citizen. As said, as more laws are passed the bad guys are getting more brazen, that's not a good thing.

 

I am not in the mood to get into the LEO debate right now. Sorry.

[Fletch]

There are 10s of thousands of gun laws already on the books in this country. You need to put some backbone into the laws we already have. If you commit a crime with a gun you get a sentence that makes you or no one else ever want it. You also need to make prison a hell of a lot worse place to go. Prisoners have benefits and services better than a lot of  non incarcerated Americans.

[Rattler]

Gun laws are instituted to do only one thing.  Control gun owners.  They don't do a thing to prevent, or even lower crime.  In fact, it can be proven they INCREASE crime, since the cities with the strictest gun laws have the most crime.  It has also been statistically proven by John Lott PhD, in his book "More Guns, Less Crime".  One can also look at other countries where guns have been banned and see the rise in crime since the bans were put in place.

As far as police quitting because they are being penalized worse than the perps, who are you going to look to for protection when you dial 911 and they don't show up?  Or do you think you could do a better job, especially since you won't wear a bullet proof vest or sit behind bullet proof glass?

Anyone who tries to kill another human being by running them down with a speeding vehicle is a menace to society and should be killed right then and there.  Due process is served immediately by preventing a murder.  Would you allow someone to shoot an innocent before arresting them so they can have due process?  

I remember a Dirty Harry movie where some hack was criticizing his shooting a "suspected" rapist in the park.  How did he know he was going to commit rape?  "When I see a naked man with a butcher knife and a hard on chasing a woman, I shoot the S.O.B.", was the answer.  Due process sometimes has to be done by the cop.

 

[Uptown Redneck]

20 hours ago, Rattler said:

Gun laws are instituted to do only one thing.  Control gun owners.  They don't do a thing to prevent, or even lower crime.  In fact, it can be proven they INCREASE crime, since the cities with the strictest gun laws have the most crime.  It has also been statistically proven by John Lott PhD, in his book "More Guns, Less Crime".  One can also look at other countries where guns have been banned and see the rise in crime since the bans were put in place.

As far as police quitting because they are being penalized worse than the perps, who are you going to look to for protection when you dial 911 and they don't show up?  Or do you think you could do a better job, especially since you won't wear a bullet proof vest or sit behind bullet proof glass?

Anyone who tries to kill another human being by running them down with a speeding vehicle is a menace to society and should be killed right then and there.  Due process is served immediately by preventing a murder.  Would you allow someone to shoot an innocent before arresting them so they can have due process?  

I remember a Dirty Harry movie where some hack was criticizing his shooting a "suspected" rapist in the park.  How did he know he was going to commit rape?  "When I see a naked man with a butcher knife and a hard on chasing a woman, I shoot the S.O.B.", was the answer.  Due process sometimes has to be done by the cop.

 

For someone who defends the criminal actions of scum cops I'm not surprised you support the police practice of shooting first and thinking later

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

For someone who defends the criminal actions of scum cops I'm not surprised you support the police practice of shooting first and thinking later

There you go again.  Nobody defends criminal actions by cops.  A lot of people defend cops wrongly accused of criminal action though.  Then there are the cop haters who always think any shooting by a cop was a criminal action.  Those are the people who know absolutely nothing about the law, crime, criminals or police authority.  

I'm sure they would rather the criminals that refuse to cooperate with police when they are stopped, be able to take the first shot.  People like that would rather have lots of murdered police officers than dead criminals.  I'd rather have more good cops and fewer people like that.

[NFA-ADK]

I get more and more upset when I hear of new gun laws that basically penalize the people who follow the law, criminals do not follow the law.  The more laws we make just seems like a justification to grab more guns from anyone caught braking a new law.  It justifies taking away your guns by making you and normal people a criminal.  Then they can say he had an assault rifle, or a 30 round clip or a pistol grip, or any other stupid law that makes no sense.  Funny how even with all the mass knife attacks they do not ban them, or ban trucks and cars as deadly weapon that kill hundreds more than guns.

 

Crazy people in this world!  And most of them are in office, lol.

[Rattler]

That's the real plan............

[Rattler]

And they're far from crazy.  They are wanna be Dictators!

[Pygmy]

I'm all for due process.. However these are not choirboys that the cops are dealing with, including the poor underprivileged youth who stole a car and happened to get his slimey ass shot because he ran from the police. He probably deserved worse than that.

These police officers are putting their life on the line every day protecting John Q. Public. 

They deal every day with people who would just as soon cut your throat or steal everything you own as to look at you.

They do the CRIME they are taking their chances...

[DirtTime]

9 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

I'm all for due process.. However these are not choirboys that the cops are dealing with, including the poor underprivileged youth who stole a car and happened to get his slimey ass shot because he ran from the police. He probably deserved worse than that.

These police officers are putting their life on the line every day protecting John Q. Public. 

They deal every day with people who would just as soon cut your throat or steal everything you own as to look at you.

They do the CRIME they are taking their chances...

Agree 100%. To bad the general public walk through life not seeing the reality of the world, or down playing it.

That moron that stole a car and then rammed police cruisers while trying to evade the police was putting not just the police in harms way, but also innocent people driving those streets. Sometimes LEO's have to make a call to ensure safety. Not allowing them to do that is nuts.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I still believe gun makers have a big hand in this crap. Why make a plinking 22 look like an all out military killing machine?  Many non gun owners see them and cry foul when they made not a peep when all guns had black steel and brown wood.

[Rattler]

Manufacturers make what the public demands and will buy.  It would be a mistake not to.

Nobody made a peep prior to black guns?  Prior to the faux "assault weapon" restrictions, handguns of all types, including revolvers, were the devil's tool.  Non-gun owners are not the problem and don't hate the 2nd Amendment.  Anti-gun groups, with a desire to control a population that cannot resist, are the problem.  And they never met any firearm they liked and would approve of anyone owning.

 

[DirtTime]

7 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

I still believe gun makers have a big hand in this crap. Why make a plinking 22 look like an all out military killing machine?  Many non gun owners see them and cry foul when they made not a peep when all guns had black steel and brown wood.

That's insane. Up until the last few guns I bought recently all my guns in the past had been wood stocks and blued metal. Still had people give me crap about owning them, and even more about killing "those cute fuzzy animals". When I got into bow hunting many years ago even had people give me crap about that too.

It's your state of mind on those "evil black guns", and those opposed are not in a stable state of mind IMO. It's more about sticking your nose in other people business and telling them can't have something just because YOU don't like how it looks. I personally do not like the way those reversed limb crossbows look. But, to each their own. I am not going to tell someone they can't have something just because I don't like the way it looks. 

[nyantler]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:31 PM, slickrockpack said:

Disarm the police, take them out from behind their bullet proof glass and vests, and you'll find a much more Civil, civil servant.

maybe not.

You were on a roll until this statement.... disarming police in America will get a lot more people killed, including more police. Although police are, in fact, civil servants... their job also includes protecting good guys from bad guys... and many, bad guys have guns. Hence the difference between most security guards and a police officer.

[Doc]

Look, we need one more gun control law that will put to bed all this assault rifle controversy. Obviously many in the public believe that appearance features are what makes many of the weapons in the hands of criminal much more lethal than old-style gun designs. So lets just pass a law that requires that all guns be painted pink, rendering them obviously harmless. Create a pansy rifle, and it really won't matter that it has a horrible pistol grip or a thumb-hole in the stock. Since laws are being passed based on appearance features rather than function, the new pink paint would render them harmless.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

17 hours ago, ....rob said:

That's insane. Up until the last few guns I bought recently all my guns in the past had been wood stocks and blued metal. Still had people give me crap about owning them, and even more about killing "those cute fuzzy animals". When I got into bow hunting many years ago even had people give me crap about that too.

It's your state of mind on those "evil black guns", and those opposed are not in a stable state of mind IMO. It's more about sticking your nose in other people business and telling them can't have something just because YOU don't like how it looks. I personally do not like the way those reversed limb crossbows look. But, to each their own. I am not going to tell someone they can't have something just because I don't like the way it looks. 

Thats far from insane...You are talking about tree huggers that dont want the animals killed..That kind will knock every gun. I have been around guns for 53 years and way back when before the...Military look..came along there were no gun issues.

Had to have more bullets and faster shooting and thats what the weirdo's run to when they want to go nutso..Just a plain Fact.   Any gun will kill but its the look and action of a gun that some dumbass gets drawn to before they go on their killing spree. Never seen a 4 shot 300Wby on the news that was used in the last carnage? 

[steve863]

9 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Thats far from insane...You are talking about tree huggers that dont want the animals killed..That kind will knock every gun. I have been around guns for 53 years and way back when before the...Military look..came along there were no gun issues.

Had to have more bullets and faster shooting and thats what the weirdo's run to when they want to go nutso..Just a plain Fact.   Any gun will kill but its the look and action of a gun that some dumbass gets drawn to before they go on their killing spree. Never seen a 4 shot 300Wby on the news that was used in the last carnage? 

I agree with you 100%.  When you went into a gun shop in those days you saw hunting guns, target guns and some handguns for personal defense. When you walk into a gun shop these days it looks like you've walked into a military or police armory.  It seems like younger gun owners prefer the "Rambo" image over the image of sportsman of yesteryear.  I surely can't change these people's minds, but they shouldn't think for a minute that the rest of society will be accepting of their preferences.

[DirtTime]

Well, there are far more hand guns used to kill then long guns. Some of those are 'scary' looking "black guns". Ban 'em, too. If you look up the "stats" you will that's true.

 

Quote

Any gun will kill but its the look and action of a gun that some dumbass gets drawn to before they go on their killing spree.

This, makes as much sense as filling your pool with runny cow crap. That's like saying anyone who buys a sports car will die for driving to fast, all bald people are members of the Aryan, etc. etc..........

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Well, there are far more hand guns used to kill then long guns. Some of those are 'scary' looking "black guns". Ban 'em, too. If you look up the "stats" you will that's true.

 

This, makes as much sense as filling your pool with runny cow crap. That's like saying anyone who buys a sports car will die for driving to fast, all bald people are members of the Aryan, etc. etc..........

Well how about you bring up the guns of say the last 5 killing sprees in the country so we can see the pics?  The look. The Action and the bullet capacity?

[Uptown Redneck]

The modern assault rifle and high capacity magazines are designed to kill the maximum amount of people in the shortest amount of time and serve no other legitimate use and should not be allowed to be sold to or possessed by the public. Furthermore I would be willing to bet that not a single one of you would chose such a weapon as your hunting rifle.  

Edited August 12, 2016 by Uptown Redneck

[Steuben Jerry]

11 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

The modern assault rifle and high capacity magazines are designed to kill the maximum amount of people in the shortest amount of time and serve no other legitimate use and should not be allowed to be sold to or possessed by the public. Furthermore I would be willing to bet that not a single one of you would chose such a weapon as your hunting rifle.  

Really? My scary looking evil M&P shoots holes in nickels at 200 yds. Holes in coyotes too. That's pretty legit to me. If it was chambered in 7.62mm, I'd use it for deer. Who says I shouldn't be able to have it?

Andy, is that you?