I Got Bit...ignorant dog owners are out there

[Uncle Nicky]

1 hour ago, grampy said:

Would it have been within the legal ramifications to shoot this dog while holding a CC permit? Would you have to be bitten before you could shoot? Even if the dog were acting aggressively at close quarters and not biting yet? Could you lose your CC permit if you shot and killed this animal? Or have charges brought on YOU from the dog owner? Or from the police? Do you have the right to protect yourself in a neighborhood, from a vicious animal, by discharging a firearm?  Interesting questions. What do you guy's think. I think, I know what I'd have done while being attacked. But what would the outcome have been for me?

It's a tough call, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in NY. But I would be willing to wager that the problems you would encounter after shooting a dog (even if it bites you), probably wouldn't be worth it. Obviously, nobody needs to live in fear, and I doubt there would be any repercussions if your life, your family's life, or your property was truly in danger. Pulling the trigger on anything comes with a huge responsibility.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

It's a tough call, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in NY. But I would be willing to wager that the problems you would encounter after shooting a dog (even if it bites you), probably wouldn't be worth it. Obviously, nobody needs to live in fear, and I doubt there would be any repercussions if your life, your family's life, or your property was truly in danger. Pulling the trigger on anything comes with a huge responsibility.

It is a tough call. Since a German Shepard is a sizable animal, was not alone and a resolvable person could be n fear of serious injury AND you he was bitten, sure sounds like it would be ok

NY Agricultural and Market Law, § 123-a. Exemption from civil liability. 1. If any dog shall, without
justification, attack a person, or behaves in a manner which a
reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
threat of serious physical injury to a person, when such person is
peaceably conducting himself in a place where he may lawfully be, such
person or any other person witnessing the attack or threatened attack
may destroy such dog while so attacking, and no liability in damages or
otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.
2. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a companion animal,
farm animal or domestic animal, or shall behave in a manner which a
reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
threat of serious physical injury or death to a companion animal, farm
animal or domestic animal, where such animal is in any place where it
may lawfully be, the owner or caretaker of such animal, or any other
person witnessing the attack, may destroy such dog, and no liability in
damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.

[Uncle Nicky]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

It is a tough call. Since a German Shepard is a sizable animal, was not alone and a resolvable person could be n fear of serious injury AND you he was bitten, sure sounds like it would be ok

NY Agricultural and Market Law, § 123-a. Exemption from civil liability. 1. If any dog shall, without
justification, attack a person, or behaves in a manner which a
reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
threat of serious physical injury to a person, when such person is
peaceably conducting himself in a place where he may lawfully be, such
person or any other person witnessing the attack or threatened attack
may destroy such dog while so attacking, and no liability in damages or
otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.
2. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a companion animal,
farm animal or domestic animal, or shall behave in a manner which a
reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
threat of serious physical injury or death to a companion animal, farm
animal or domestic animal, where such animal is in any place where it
may lawfully be, the owner or caretaker of such animal, or any other
person witnessing the attack, may destroy such dog, and no liability in
damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key here is the word "serious". Not looking for an argument, but I'd think long & hard before drawing down on any domestic pet, and I do realize that anyone would have to make a split-second decision between if they are in serious trouble, and if the possible fallout afterward was really worth it. A German Shepherd IS a sizeable animal, makes you wonder why the owner kept this pet, knowing it was aggressive towards other people????

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key here is the word "serious". Not looking for an argument, but I'd think long & hard before drawing down on any domestic pet, and I do realize that anyone would have to make a split-second decision between if they are in serious trouble, and if the possible fallout afterward was really worth it. A German Shepherd IS a sizeable animal, makes you wonder why the owner kept this pet, knowing it was aggressive towards other people????

I don't see anyone arguing. I think is is very useful to discuss these things and think about the possibility. Lord knows in the heat of it there isn't time to discuss them. 

As with most laws it would seem like the standard could be different for each of us. 

 

per the penal code

 10. "Serious physical injury" means physical injury which creates a
substantial risk of death, or which causes death or serious and
protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health or protracted
loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.

[Marion]

I would never draw on anyones pet until after the thing started attacking. After which point one is mauled or in the process of being mauled I would have enough justification at least in my mind to destroy someones beloved member of their family (talking about the dog chomping on my body)

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[WNYBuckHunter]

24 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key here is the word "serious". Not looking for an argument, but I'd think long & hard before drawing down on any domestic pet, and I do realize that anyone would have to make a split-second decision between if they are in serious trouble, and if the possible fallout afterward was really worth it. A German Shepherd IS a sizeable animal, makes you wonder why the owner kept this pet, knowing it was aggressive towards other people????

The second a dog sinks its teeth into my body, its going to die. If I see one attack one of my kids, its going to die. I dont honestly give a rats ass how much someone loves it. If one of my dogs did something similar and someone shot it, I would understand. Sure Id be a little sad to lose a pet, but as soon as said pet becomes aggressive to the point of biting someone that is not provoking it, something has to be done about it.

[Elmo]

If this dog has bit someone before, why the heck did this crazy lady let it run loose?  She doesn't deserve to have pets.  Sue her.  Glad you're okay though.  And yes, if I had CC, dog would have been shot.

[Doc]

37 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I don't see anyone arguing. I think is is very useful to discuss these things and think about the possibility. Lord knows in the heat of it there isn't time to discuss them. 

As with most laws it would seem like the standard could be different for each of us. 

 

per the penal code

 10. "Serious physical injury" means physical injury which creates a
substantial risk of death, or which causes death or serious and
protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health or protracted
loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.

Isn't it unfortunate that in a situation where a second's hesitation may cost a person death or disfigurement, that person must go down through a list of complex legal qualifications, and parse each word before taking action. I'll tell you what, if I have the means to defend myself against a menacing dog (And he doesn't even have to bite me first), I will take that action and worry about the fine print of some obscure laws later.

[Buckmaster7600]

Isn't it unfortunate that in a situation where a second's hesitation may cost a person death or disfigurement, that person must go down through a list of complex legal qualifications, and parse each word before taking action. I'll tell you what, if I have the means to defend myself against a menacing dog (And he doesn't even have to bite me first), I will take that action and worry about the fine print of some obscure laws later.

Welcome to modern America.

I would be less worried about legal issues as I am being sued. Even if you won you would have thousands in legal fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Welcome to modern America.

I would be less worried about legal issues as I am being sued. Even if you won you would have thousands in legal fees.

But perhaps the one being sued can take solace that they still have a face or a throat or a live functioning body. One's self defense and the defense of life and limb of those around them is priority number one. Legal ramifications come second.

[Nomad]

Few years back I'm walking my Beagle on the Hojack trail in Webster, he's on a 6 foot leash . I have some expanding trekking pole I'm trying out and a .38 snub in my coat pocket .

Up ahead I see a dog  being walked ,off leash running all around . Then they go into  the woods. We get up,there and I hear a dog running and barking , he's coming right to us , I pull my dog in close , as the other dog gets close I raise the pole over head yell and stomp my foot . That seems to work as the dog stops then comes in sniffing my dog . Then he goes for my dogs neck ( the other dog is some sort of pitbull ) , the pole comes down across his eyes/ snout, and breaks in half ....

the dog stops and were in some sort of Mexican stand off, but now what ? My pole is broke, so,out comes the gun I'm pointing it finger on trigger ready to shoot if it comes in again . Now this whole time the owner is watching but never made an attempt to call his dog or come after it, till that silver snub came out, now he's concerned , and calls his dog , who then returns to,the owner .

Now I did not want to,shoot anyone's dog, and on a  hiking / biking trail with houses a few hundred feet away , but I would have , yet glad I didn't have to .

 

Few days later at the gym I ran into a friend who's Sgt on the town PD, he simply said , " why didn't you just shoot it ?"

[diplomat019]

Glad your ok.  I love animals but that dog needs to be put down if this is a repeated offense.  

[grampy]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I don't see anyone arguing. I think is is very useful to discuss these things and think about the possibility. Lord knows in the heat of it there isn't time to discuss them. 

As with most laws it would seem like the standard could be different for each of us. 

 

per the penal code

 10. "Serious physical injury" means physical injury which creates a
substantial risk of death, or which causes death or serious and
protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health or protracted
loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.

This is exactly why I asked the questions. Was hoping for a discussion to bring forward the repercussions, if any, should any of us be put in that situation. As long as I have no chance of hurting a PERSON, with a missed or ricocheted bullet, that dog is DEAD! But when things happen like this it all happens very quickly. So there is not usually much time to think of any, or all repercussions of firing your weapon when the spit hits the fan. Great responses by the way!  And didn't want to hijack Greg's thread, but it all ties in I think. 

[Buckmaster7600]

But perhaps the one being sued can take solace that they still have a face or a throat or a live functioning body. One's self defense and the defense of life and limb of those around them is priority number one. Legal ramifications come second.

Oh I absolutely agree! We had a saying in the Marines when the Obama's administration rules got crazy "it's better to by tried by 12 than carried by 6."

It's just sad that we have to even have this discussion because some idiot with a dog that bites people could ruin your life financially.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

Small dog gets a boot. Something like a German Shepard even I'd be covering my legal butt and not shoot until it clamps down. Otherwise you might be in trouble. A bigger dog can easily take you down and hit something just right to do damage to effect your livelihood or kill ya. maybe even if by hitting arteries. If anything but the smallest dog goes after a young kid it's dead. That's my take.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[growalot]

Unless a person has been bitten and seriously injured you don't have a clue how much damage can happen in a split second. I have been hospitalized 3 times with bites. One straight through my calf muscle. What saved me on that was adrenaline and knowing what to do. I immediately reached back and grabbed it's snout and held it to my leg,preventing a shake or ripping out of muscle. Another I had my finger tipped  and arm latched on to. Then lost a good part of a pinky finger. That happened so fast I didnt even know it was gone untll my son told me and I  looked down. Surgery to clean and repair " amputation" months of hand rehab. Way to many scares..muscle and tendon injuries don't always heal right they  can bulge and harden....dead dogs

Never underestimate what just one bite can do.

BTW...That pinky causes me real problems in the cold. Makes  cold weather hunting a problem ,trying to keep just that pinky warm enough to avoid tissue damage and pain...this years after..also arthritis developed in that hand and the arm that was bitten has numbness issues years later.

Edited July 24, 2017 by growalot

[Uncle Nicky]

6 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

Small dog gets a boot. Something like a German Shepard even I'd be covering my legal butt and not shoot until it clamps down. Otherwise you might be in trouble. A bigger dog can easily take you down and hit something just right to do damage to effect your livelihood or kill ya. maybe even if by hitting arteries. If anything but the smallest dog goes after a young kid it's dead. That's my take.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Mine too. I can't see blasting away at a yappy Chihuahua or Beagle, especially in a residential neighborhood. I'd be more apt to chuck a rock at dog's ribs or try breaking it's jaw with a boot to the head first, but I'm a stocky guy in fairly good shape, whose been bit a few times before and survived without any trauma. A pit bull or pit mix is a different story, I've seen them hunt and know what they are capable of, but a Shepherd would be a formidable opponent as well. Sorry to hear what greg54 went through, nobody needs to feel threatened when they are simply taking a walk.

[Five Seasons]

I hate that pets can be the victims of human negligence, but the dog needs to be put down and the lady can and should face some legal action.

I had to go to special court once for an excessive speeding ticket. There was a lady there trying to get her dogs back and the judge basically was like "no, this is the 3rd time". I'm thinking dog bites shouldn't have more than 2 chances...

[Five Seasons]

On 7/20/2017 at 9:11 AM, grampy said:

Would it have been within the legal ramifications to shoot this dog while holding a CC permit? Would you have to be bitten before you could shoot? Even if the dog were acting aggressively at close quarters and not biting yet? Could you lose your CC permit if you shot and killed this animal? Or have charges brought on YOU from the dog owner? Or from the police? Do you have the right to protect yourself in a neighborhood, from a vicious animal, by discharging a firearm?  Interesting questions. What do you guy's think. I think, I know what I'd have done while being attacked. But what would the outcome have been for me?

falls into the category where I worry about the law after the fact. Nothing would and does surprise me in this shit hole state where a dog can have more rights than a tax payer, but if you approach me I'm doing everything i can NOT to pull the trigger. I don't want the headache, but if it looks like I have no option, i'm opening up BEFORE i'm bit. 

That being said, you know you're in a legal mess after you kill or even wound that dog. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

On 7/20/2017 at 11:12 AM, Uncle Nicky said:

Thanks for the explanation. I think the key here is the word "serious". Not looking for an argument, but I'd think long & hard before drawing down on any domestic pet, and I do realize that anyone would have to make a split-second decision between if they are in serious trouble, and if the possible fallout afterward was really worth it. A German Shepherd IS a sizeable animal, makes you wonder why the owner kept this pet, knowing it was aggressive towards other people????

for arguments sake. If you're on a trail somewhere or a quiet road. You kill the dog... nobody shows up. Do you keep walking?

[grampy]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

for arguments sake. If you're on a trail somewhere or a quiet road. You kill the dog... nobody shows up. Do you keep walking?

If I'm on a trail or back road, and if the animal was acting overly aggressive and way too close, or bit me or a family member, it's dead, and I walk on. I "might" drag it's sorry a$$ into the bushes, but that's all I'd do. Then no one else will ever be injured or attacked by "that" particular mutt again. Please don't misunderstand me, I do love dogs! But if someone does not love or care enough about their dog to keep it under control or train it properly, I'll feel no remorse as I drag it's carcass to the toolies.

[Five Seasons]

12 minutes ago, grampy said:

If I'm on a trail or back road, and if the animal was acting overly aggressive and way too close, or bit me or a family member, it's dead, and I walk on. I "might" drag it's sorry a$$ into the bushes, but that's all I'd do. Then no one else will ever be injured or attacked by "that" particular mutt again. Please don't misunderstand me, I do love dogs! But if someone does not love or care enough about their dog to keep it under control or train it properly, I'll feel no remorse as I drag it's carcass to the toolies.

I was acutally posing that question from a legal perspective more than a moral obligation. If you discharge your firearm and kill a pet it could be a crime. I don't really expect anyone to answer this on the internet honestly, but knowing all the legal troubles and financial crap you're in for even if innocent it's an interesting decision you have to make. 

[turkeyfeathers]

Wife is a veterinarian . Told her about this thread. They are constantly dealing with dogs that owners can't control. Lunging out at vets/techs and have people say "this the third time (insert dog name here) has bitten someone. They don't hesitate to say that dog needs to be put down.

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by turkeyfeathers

[Uncle Nicky]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

for arguments sake. If you're on a trail somewhere or a quiet road. You kill the dog... nobody shows up. Do you keep walking?

In this case, I'd probably be more likely to be carrying a gun with me than walking around the neighborhood, I'd also be more likely to have my own dog with me, which usually adds to the conflict with dog dominanace & aggression. A small dog would still get kicked in the chops, a bigger dog might get shot if it seemed rabid or feral, an even more menacing dog would probably get shot before it put it's teeth in me, since we're probably not talking about someone's family pet that got loose at this point, especially without a collar. Again, it's a quick decision to have to make, and one you'll probably have to live with the consequences of, either way. And yes, if I felt like I needed to kill the dog, I'm dragging it in the bushes and getting out of there ASAP, why go looking for trouble?

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

for arguments sake. If you're on a trail somewhere or a quiet road. You kill the dog... nobody shows up. Do you keep walking?

then chances are it bit someone or an animal, i was lucky to fend it off, and i'd need to know if it was vaccinated, etc.  i'd call 911 if i had cell service or otherwise contact authorities.  owner is asking for it if they come forth later on.