Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[jjb4900]

If you hunt with a crossbow the same as you do with a bow, the differences shrink a little...not much, but a little. I think the problem arises when you have those that now think that since they're carrying this "gun like" weapon, that it can far out perform a vertical bow, settling into a stock and looking through a scope gives a false sense of what it is capable of and possibly an attitude of being able to stomp around the woods like they do with a firearm.

[jjb4900]

3 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I know you said you don't dwell on it being any greater achievement but I do get greater satisfaction from the recurve.  If you stick with the trad bow, you may just find that you still get the job done and enjoy it even more.  Who knows.  In the end, that is why I prefer having choices for everyone.  

it's all about satisfaction for me....when I pick up the crossbow later in the season, it's more of a "time to get it done" attitude as opposed to enjoying my time in stand and laughing at all the mistakes and close calls I had during my time with the vertical bow...very little satisfaction with a crossbow kill, of course there is some, but not like when it all comes together hunting with my compound.

[dbHunterNY]

12 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I know you said you don't dwell on it being any greater achievement but I do get greater satisfaction from the recurve.  If you stick with the trad bow, you may just find that you still get the job done and enjoy it even more.  Who knows.  In the end, that is why I prefer having choices for everyone.  

there's no question that if i commited to shooting it more my comfortable range would be out past every deer i've taken with a compound despite i can shoot farther with one.  idk. i've had such limited success with it, because i haven't truthfully given it a chance.  it's still seems like screwing around to me and i'm not to the point where it's turned into a quest and reason to ditch my regular bows.  maybe i should make the commitment... next year. lol

[SteveB]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

there's most definitely advantages of using a crossbow over a vertical compound bow.  i'd say traditional archery to compound to crossbow are each equally big steps apart.  still all bows in my mind though.  i think it could get ridiculous if you have a hand crank to cock 300 lbs of crossbow limbs that launch heavy carbon arrows the size of saplings through the woods but we aren't there yet in materials or designs.

all that said 'yes' to all but the last one.  I'm not a member.

 

3 hours ago, UWShunter said:

IMHO, if you are disabled and/or suffer from a significant shoulder injury, (i.e. torn rotator cuff, torn labrum), and have valid proof of said medical disability and/or over the age of 65, I don't have any issue with X-bow.

For those 65 and older, X-bow keeps them in the game.

However, in the event you don't meet the above criteria, X-Bow hunters should be grateful for the rules as presently drafted.

X-bow is without question easier than Bow & if you can shoot a rifle proficiently, X-bow is not a challenge.

To become proficient at bow demands time, practice, skill & patience.

One of the major reasons why any bow kill is something to be very proud of.

Anyone can pull a trigger.....


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Will post again -1 comment and 1 question:

Comment: There is only 1 real reason an "able bodied" individual chooses a compound instead of a recurve/longbow - that is they want something easier. That is fine with me until they insist that their easier should be the cutoff for all.

Question: What recurve/longbow do you hunt with?

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

there's most definitely advantages of using a crossbow over a vertical compound bow.  i'd say traditional archery to compound to crossbow are each equally big steps apart.  still all bows in my mind though.  

My opinion is it is a far easier jump from recurve to compound than compound to crossbow.

To get hunting accurate at 20 yards with a recurve takes at least weeks, probably months/years, to never for many.

Same thing with a compound properly set up and with a little decent instruction can be done in an afternoon for many.

With a crossbow off hand it is similar to a compound - maybe a bit easier for most. But on 3d ranges where both compete like the IBO, the compound consistently is on top.

Crossbow with a rest is definitely easier. But finding a rest while hunting with a 20" minimum wide window and settling in with it while a deer is coming at <30 yds could be problematic. Few deer I have ever had in bow range appeared exactly where I expected.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

So you are saying that pulling a trigger on one type of weapon is not the same as pulling the trigger on another type of weapon?

You're a smart guy and you know what I'm getting at. Maybe it's another rainy boring day at the office, but lets call a spade a spade here. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, jjb4900 said:

If you hunt with a crossbow the same as you do with a bow, the differences shrink a little...not much, but a little. I think the problem arises when you have those that now think that since they're carrying this "gun like" weapon, that it can far out perform a vertical bow, settling into a stock and looking through a scope gives a false sense of what it is capable of and possibly an attitude of being able to stomp around the woods like they do with a firearm.

I agree with that completely. I do think that alot of the guys that think that way will end up washing out within a season or two though. Either that or they will work towards becoming a better archery hunter. Either way, the problem solves itself for the most part. There will always be bad apples though.

[WNYBuckHunter]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

You're a smart guy and you know what I'm getting at. Maybe it's another rainy boring day at the office, but lets call a spade a spade here. 

No, I do. Im just trying to make a point that the original statement is not accurate. I know you didnt make the original statement, you were just the one to reply to my comment.

Yes, its a rainy boring day at work lol. I would much rather be in the woods.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

19 minutes ago, SteveB said:

 

Will post again -1 comment and 1 question:

Comment: There is only 1 real reason an "able bodied" individual chooses a compound instead of a recurve/longbow - that is they want something easier. That is fine with me until they insist that their easier should be the cutoff for all.

Question: What recurve/longbow do you hunt with?

 

<<Crickets>>>

[WNYBuckHunter]

25 minutes ago, SteveB said:

Crossbow with a rest is definitely easier. But finding a rest while hunting with a 20" minimum wide window and settling in with it while a deer is coming at <30 yds could be problematic. Few deer I have ever had in bow range appeared exactly where I expected.

I have both a crossbow and a compound. I have been shooting my compound for years, and I am pretty accurate with it out to 50 yards shooting at targets. This year the furthest I have shot it is 40. I recently got my crossbow and I will say, that purely offhand, I can shoot a bit more accurately with my compound. Give me a rest for my crossbow, and its more accurate than I can be with my compound hands down. I have yet to hunt with my crossbow, but I have been thinking about how it will be while I have been in my stands this year. With the types of setups I use, my crossbow shots will be mainly offhand. A few stands and blinds I will have a rest, so I may actually relegate my crossbow use to those particular blinds and stands.

[dbHunterNY]

4 minutes ago, SteveB said:

 

Will post again -1 comment and 1 question:

Comment: There is only 1 real reason an "able bodied" individual chooses a compound instead of a recurve/longbow - that is they want something easier. That is fine with me until they insist that their easier should be the cutoff for all.

Question: What recurve/longbow do you hunt with?

My opinion is it is a far easier jump from recurve to compound than compound to crossbow.

To get hunting accurate at 20 yards with a recurve takes at least weeks, probably months/years, to never for many.

Same thing with a compound properly set up and with a little decent instruction can be done in an afternoon for many.

With a crossbow off hand it is similar to a compound - maybe a bit easier for most. But on 3d ranges where both compete like the IBO, the compound consistently is on top.

Crossbow with a rest is definitely easier. But finding a rest while hunting with a 20" minimum wide window and settling in with it while a deer is coming at <30 yds could be problematic. Few deer I have ever had in bow range appeared exactly where I expected.

i agree.  compound is definitely easier than a trad bow or even a recurve with sights and everything else.  i shoot it instinctively i guess.  i think i have to keep up with it and can get rusty to where i'm minute of deer for accuracy.  compound isn't really the same.  i can pick it up after not shooting for several month and stack arrows.  i hunt (on rare occasion) with a Bear Super Kodiak shoot instinctively with forgiving carbon arrows.  i've shot others longbows before a little.  didn't think they were much different to kill a deer but they were noticeably harder to be consistently more accurate.

if you eliminate the idea of a rested crossbow, it doesn't pose as much of an advantage over a compound i agree.  i've hunted with others who have setup with a rest just fine though.

[dbHunterNY]

8 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I have both a crossbow and a compound. I have been shooting my compound for years, and I am pretty accurate with it out to 50 yards shooting at targets. This year the furthest I have shot it is 40. I recently got my crossbow and I will say, that purely offhand, I can shoot a bit more accurately with my compound. Give me a rest for my crossbow, and its more accurate than I can be with my compound hands down. I have yet to hunt with my crossbow, but I have been thinking about how it will be while I have been in my stands this year. With the types of setups I use, my crossbow shots will be mainly offhand. A few stands and blinds I will have a rest, so I may actually relegate my crossbow use to those particular blinds and stands.

all those i've known setup specifically for the crossbow to be rested.  trigger stick monostick works well in treestands. some rest it on their boot.  some i've seen use a cut tennis ball and a crap load of duct tape.  whatever doesn't let it inadvertently drop down through the stand platform.  in blinds a camp chair with arm rests and a set of shooting sticks work well from what i've seen.  even have seen those shooting pods with two resting points that some gun hunters use.  box blinds with a shelf and crossbow bipods are the only real blinds setup for gun hunting that work without setting up specifically for it. 

[Core]

3 hours ago, StevieSacs said:

I'd say i'm indifferent.

I like the idea of 12-15 being able to use Xbow as well as anyone over 40 years old.   

I know my uncle would love to use one during archery. He got me into hunting and know that his shoulders are getting bad along with his eye sight, which deters him from sitting during archery.   I'm sure he'd participate more if he could use a crossbow.  (he's 70 years old)

 

 

They def need to allow 12-13 shoot an xbow. As is they can shoot a vertical. How many 12 year old girls can take a deer with a vertical bow reliably? Yes, some, certainly not many. 

[Jdubs]

4 hours ago, Core said:

Why did you buy a crossbow when a vertical gives you 5+ weeks to hunt?

Also, entry compounds from good brands like PSE are plenty lethal. There's no need whatsoever to spend $1k on a bow. You can spend $3k on a rifle but nobody would ever pretend that a $300 one isn't plenty capable of harvesting game.

The xbow was a gift for my stepson who expressed an interest in learning to hunt.  I offered him the choice of a bow or xbow, explained the pros/cons and he chose the xbow.  He dragged his feet on taking the hunter safety course so I am hunting with this xbow and offered to give him cash towards a car instead.

I'm well aware that prices can run the gamut, but ultimately one usually gets what they pay for.  Seems like a bow should be fit to the hunter in the same way a golfer is fit for clubs.  Add in accessories, training and such and I think a grand is a safe estimate.  Or I can climb a tree now with the xbow I already own and be hunting.  

[Core]

1 hour ago, Jdubs said:

The xbow was a gift for my stepson who expressed an interest in learning to hunt.  I offered him the choice of a bow or xbow, explained the pros/cons and he chose the xbow.  He dragged his feet on taking the hunter safety course so I am hunting with this xbow and offered to give him cash towards a car instead.

I'm well aware that prices can run the gamut, but ultimately one usually gets what they pay for.  Seems like a bow should be fit to the hunter in the same way a golfer is fit for clubs.  Add in accessories, training and such and I think a grand is a safe estimate.  Or I can climb a tree now with the xbow I already own and be hunting.  

I think a bow is a lot like golf clubs. The entry ones are not as good as the top-end, but in the hands of a good golfer the performance is much better than the best clubs in the hands of one who doesn't practice. You can change draw length and peep sight and all that, but any bow should fit most people. Basically when you pay $1k for a bow instead of $350 you get a very, very slightly faster bow. Maybe it's slightly quieter, etc. Vertical bow tech is not getting much better now, and the entry bows are similar to high end bows of not very long ago. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I think a bow is a lot like golf clubs. The entry ones are not as good as the top-end, but in the hands of a good golfer the performance is much better than the best clubs in the hands of one who doesn't practice. You can change draw length and peep sight and all that, but any bow should fit most people. Basically when you pay $1k for a bow instead of $350 you get a very, very slightly faster bow. Maybe it's slightly quieter, etc. Vertical bow tech is not getting much better now, and the entry bows are similar to high end bows of not very long ago. 

You ever shot a top end bow? I'm willing to bet the answer is no at least not very much. There is a big difference in shooting a top of the line bow from "X" than a 300$ Winchester from the Kmarts. Now is there might not be a difference that an animal would notice but certainly the shooter.


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[reeltime]

as far as full inclusion goes its going to happen, likely within 2 years but there is going to be a bow certificate requirement, that alone is going to weed out a lot of the ones that are currently just taking advantage of the muzzleloader stamp requirement currently in place.

 

Are archery stamp sales going to go up, likely yes they will. When Pa started allowing crossbows in archery the archery stamp numbers increased and are still quite high in sales numbers as well as the (estimated) harvest numbers have increased.  but there is also no archery safety class or certification needed and there is no comparison in hunter density between ny and pa. nor the hunter heritage here in ny as there is in pa even though the hunter numbers are trending down in pa as well.

The crossbow sales the months prior to the first season of full inclusion in pa was unreal, I was at the hamburgh pa cabellas store that summer and no joke I watched 23 crossbows walk out the door the 2 hours we were there.  around my place in pa we used to see quite a few with crossbows but now we are seeing more going back to traditional or compounds.

Crossbows are not the cure all, not for accuracy, wounding, poor shot choices, or the biggest thing it will not cure is just plain ole good woodsmanship.   These folks that think they are going to go buy a crossbow and take that new crossbow into the woods and miraculously walk up and shoot a deer while a small percentage will do just that the largest majority will fail at harvesting a deer and some will even give up when they find its not as easy as they think. I have seen FAR more folks here and in PA "still hunting" (lol) with a crossbow in their hands than a compound or recurve.

 

As far as myself personally, I hunt by the rules set by states, I have bowhunted 40 years and have been blessed to have killed well over 100 deer with a bow,,,, 1 yes 1 was shot at 22 yards I have never shot at a deer farther than that, a handful at 20 and probably at least 100 at less than 10 yard, I haven't shot over 10 yards in at least 15 years.

What advantage does a crossbow give me? none!  I rely on my woodsmanship skills, hunt them high, hunt them in the thick stuff and just take advantage of the shots I am presented.  

 

 

[growalot]

Let me ask ..this may actually be a new point in this discussion...For those of you that don't want it in "bow season" are you OK with them in small game and turkey season?

I'm going to throw out the honesty factor for that question by stating this..... Anyone with a turkey license is allowed in the woods to hunt fall turkey with a cross bow. Now those dates for the southern zone are Oct 21  - Nov 3  I really have to laugh because the LEGAL time to be deer hunting with a cross bow is Nov 4th- Nov 17th this year.  Just think about that a moment...how many guys that do both will sling their cross bow over their backs and carry their vertical bow in their hands when going to their blinds as I do? not many only need to walk a few hundred yards from their house, BUT a good many are hunting private lands with close camps and houses..hey even sticking a vertical in the trunk and going back to get it before "retrieving" a deer.  I really laugh when I see these regulations Either they are  Pollyanna's in their train of thought or they are hoping for some  $$$ in fines...I do not know, but it's ridiculous...just have the inclusion and be done with it...LOL

Edited October 10, 2017 by growalot

[jjb4900]

19 minutes ago, growalot said:

Let me ask ..this may actually be a new point in this discussion...For those of you that don't want it in "bow season" are you OK with them in small game and turkey season?

I'm going to throw out the honesty factor for that question by stating this..... Anyone with a turkey license is allowed in the woods to hunt fall turkey with a cross bow. Now those dates for the southern zone are Oct 21  - Nov 3  I really have to laugh because the LEGAL time to be deer hunting with a cross bow is Nov 4th- Nov 17th this year.  Just think about that a moment...how many guys that do both will sling their cross bow over their backs and carry their vertical bow in their hands when going to their blinds as I do? not many only need to walk a few hundred yards from their house, BUT a good many are hunting private lands with close camps and houses..hey even sticking a vertical in the trunk and going back to get it before"relieving" a deer.  I really laugh when I see these regulations Either they are  Pollyanna's in their train of thought or they are hoping for some  $$$ in fines...I do not know, but it's ridiculous...just have the inclusion and be done with it...LOL

that's my thing, it's not so much the weapon that bothers me, but what it may attract and the problems it may create.......and in reality it's more of an unfounded concern because those who will do shady stuff will do it no matter. I'm sure the majority on here will hunt with the crossbow exactly like they do with a vertical bow so it's barely a blip on the radar, it's those that won't that concern me.

[Buckmaster7600]

Let me ask ..this may actually be a new point in this discussion...For those of you that don't want it in "bow season" are you OK with them in small game and turkey season?
I'm going to throw out the honesty factor for that question by stating this..... Anyone with a turkey license is allowed in the woods to hunt fall turkey with a cross bow. Now those dates for the southern zone are Oct 21  - Nov 3  I really have to laugh because the LEGAL time to be deer hunting with a cross bow is Nov 4th- Nov 17th this year.  Just think about that a moment...how many guys that do both will sling their cross bow over their backs and carry their vertical bow in their hands when going to their blinds as I do? not many only need to walk a few hundred yards from their house, BUT a good many are hunting private lands with close camps and houses..hey even sticking a vertical in the trunk and going back to get it before"relieving" a deer.  I really laugh when I see these regulations Either they are  Pollyanna's in their train of thought or they are hoping for some  $$$ in fines...I do not know, but it's ridiculous...just have the inclusion and be done with it...LOL

So if I understand what you're saying, let me paraphrase "let's make it legal because people are already doing it illegally?" If that is the case I feel that's kind of backwards thinking.

On a side note I don't know what "relieving" a deer means but it doesn't sound appropriate for a public forum.


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[silent death]

[Uncle Nicky]

Quick answer-yes. It works everywhere else, same as the Sunday Hunting debate.

[chas0218]

25 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Quick answer-yes. It works everywhere else, same as the Sunday Hunting debate.

So lets do antler restrictions too because they work everywhere else.

[growalot]

Get your panties out of a knot just throwing another angle for you guys to get pizzed off at...LOL though you did do as expected...got nasty...and it's humorous to go through and see all the wrong words and the backward spellings ,wrong use of words...from a good many other people and watch them slide ...swear to God it makes me laugh out loud for real...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

33 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

So lets do antler restrictions too because they work everywhere else.

Since the majority of the state is NOT AR, maybe the correct thing to do is NOT have AR in the state becasue it worked everywhere else in the state?  (Guess "Worked" depends on your goals)

[Buckmaster7600]

Get your panties out of a knot just throwing another angle for you guys to get pizzed off at...LOL though you did do as expected...got nasty...and it's humorous to go through and see all the wrong words and the backward spellings ,wrong use of words...from a good many other people and watch them slide ...swear to God it makes me laugh out loud for real...

No panty bunches here, but my question still stands should we change laws so people wouldn't be breaking them? That is what I got out of your question unless I am understanding your point incorrectly?


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