Ideas on how new York can increase land access for hunting .

[Dinsdale]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

  My one neighbor seems to let anyone that asks hunt there.  

Could you shoot me that name in a PM.....

Thanks

[stubby68]

Do away with big buck clubs and do away with being able to mount animals. No scoring no mounting no bragging just simple old hunting. Make city guys stay in the city. Land never started getting locked up until the big buck craze. People use  to be more then happy to let anyone hunt their land. City guys started watching hunting shows and seeing the unrealistic hunting with unrealistic results then they started buying up land and locking it up so they could get big bucks. Biggest problem with land access that everyone is afraid someone else will shoot their big buck. Use to be that no one cared who shot what. 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, stubby68 said:

Do away with big buck clubs and do away with being able to mount animals. No scoring no mounting no bragging just simple old hunting. Make city guys stay in the city. Land never started getting locked up until the big buck craze. People use  to be more then happy to let anyone hunt their land. City guys started watching hunting shows and seeing the unrealistic hunting with unrealistic results then they started buying up land and locking it up so they could get big bucks. Biggest problem with land access that everyone is afraid someone else will shoot their big buck. Use to be that no one cared who shot what. 

Well I don't know about all of that but those   hunting shows that a lot a are probably shot in high fence places do give new hunters the impression that those big bucks are more common then they are . And years ago people did hunt more for food then they do now  I think .

[moog5050]

2 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

Could you shoot me that name in a PM.....

Thanks

I wouldn’t want to waste your time Dinssale.  No deer around here. 

[NYBowhunter]

2 hours ago, stubby68 said:

Do away with big buck clubs and do away with being able to mount animals. No scoring no mounting no bragging just simple old hunting. Make city guys stay in the city. Land never started getting locked up until the big buck craze. People use  to be more then happy to let anyone hunt their land. City guys started watching hunting shows and seeing the unrealistic hunting with unrealistic results then they started buying up land and locking it up so they could get big bucks. Biggest problem with land access that everyone is afraid someone else will shoot their big buck. Use to be that no one cared who shot what. 

That has to be the most retarded statement ever on this site. Without our city momey alot of those upstate towns would be hurting for sure. I pay taxes for schools upstate that my children will never attend, who benefits from that. Me and my family have owned land, houses  upstate for the last 55 + years, what gives an upstater more rights to hunting then us city folk? I can assure you that me and my family are the most realistic, old style hunting you will find.

[reeltime]

as far as coop land goes, having experience with coop land hunter access in Pa I can tell you that it is as bad if not worse than actual state game lands.  Trying to do some kind of a state lease/permit  is going to be a nightmare with trespassers and who is going to patrol the property and pay for all the signage? 

There are properties out there available to hunt if someone wants to put forth the effort to find it.

As far as all of this being because of the "antler craze"  while some properties that may be true for the most part things started changing before all the craze started.  The 2 biggest reasons for all the posted land here and in many other states is because of

#1 hunters themselves and their actions. - If you don't or have never owned land of a huntable size you have NO idea of the hassles, excuses, lies, threats, property damage, theft, littering that landowners have dealt with.  so hunters have no one to blame but slob hunters to blame for the posted signs.

#2 the liability and sue happy society we live in today, whether you want to believe it or not it IS an issue and even "signing" a waiver isn't worth the paper its written on.

 

As far as all the complaining about the posted land goes, while yes its not easy to get access sometimes, remember its private property. The owner paid for it, they pay the taxes on it, they do all the work,  they worked for it its theirs to say who if anyone hunts it.  maybe they don't like hunting, maybe they bought it for themselves to hunt. Maybe they posted it but will allow someone to hunt they just want to know who, when and what is being hunted.  Just because land has posted signs does not mean the owner will not allow hunting.

 

The issue of hunter access has been and always will be the biggest factor in trying to manage game populations not just here in NY but in any and all states.  Wild animals are  not stupid they are in survival mode 24/7/365  it certainly does not take them long to find the safe havens and as I have said before does not matter how many tags you give out, you can not kill deer you can not get at, why do you think the suburban herds flourish so strongly.

 

[Hunter007]

33 minutes ago, reeltime said:

as far as coop land goes, having experience with coop land hunter access in Pa I can tell you that it is as bad if not worse than actual state game lands.  Trying to do some kind of a state lease/permit  is going to be a nightmare with trespassers and who is going to patrol the property and pay for all the signage? 

There are properties out there available to hunt if someone wants to put forth the effort to find it.

As far as all of this being because of the "antler craze"  while some properties that may be true for the most part things started changing before all the craze started.  The 2 biggest reasons for all the posted land here and in many other states is because of

#1 hunters themselves and their actions. - If you don't or have never owned land of a huntable size you have NO idea of the hassles, excuses, lies, threats, property damage, theft, littering that landowners have dealt with.  so hunters have no one to blame but slob hunters to blame for the posted signs.

#2 the liability and sue happy society we live in today, whether you want to believe it or not it IS an issue and even "signing" a waiver isn't worth the paper its written on.

 

As far as all the complaining about the posted land goes, while yes its not easy to get access sometimes, remember its private property. The owner paid for it, they pay the taxes on it, they do all the work,  they worked for it its theirs to say who if anyone hunts it.  maybe they don't like hunting, maybe they bought it for themselves to hunt. Maybe they posted it but will allow someone to hunt they just want to know who, when and what is being hunted.  Just because land has posted signs does not mean the owner will not allow hunting.

 

The issue of hunter access has been and always will be the biggest factor in trying to manage game populations not just here in NY but in any and all states.  Wild animals are  not stupid they are in survival mode 24/7/365  it certainly does not take them long to find the safe havens and as I have said before does not matter how many tags you give out, you can not kill deer you can not get at, why do you think the suburban herds flourish so strongly.

 

Lawsuits are a part of life these days Thats what Insurance is for .

And if you have 100s  1000s  of acres chances are people are hunting on it trespassing on it anyway seems like not a day goes buy when someone mentions it on this site .

Besides what I'm proposing would be totally voluntary if you feel it is not for you you don't have to .

[DirtTime]

9 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Anything that would open more private land to hunting would be good overall. I don't know if a tax break is feasible because other local taxpayers end up picking up the difference, in effect subsidizing land for hunting.

Any attempt to change things needs to consider why private land is off limits.

In my experience, 2 things cause landowners to prohibit hunting:  they oppose hunting - in which case it's a moot point; or, they have experienced bad behavior by hunters. In my neighborhood it's about 50 - 50.  

As a hunter, I've witnessed more bad behavior than I care to recall. There are a lot of hunters I wouldn't want near me, my house or my livestock. 

There's a third, the people who own the land hunt it and don't want anyone else on there. 

9 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Any landowner that would be so inclined to voluntarily participate in such a program for a tax break could also lease their land now and still maintain control over who is hunting there.   Not relying on the state to vet those hunting on your land and lease covers taxes or part of them.   I know I would not be interested in letting just anyone on my land for reasons mentioned by curmudgeon.   

This right here is the best reply anyone will ever need to a post like this!

 

[reeltime]

10 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Lawsuits are a part of life these days Thats what Insurance is for .

And if you have 100s  1000s  of acres chances are people are hunting on it trespassing on it anyway seems like not a day goes buy when someone mentions it on this site .

Besides what I'm proposing would be totally voluntary if you feel it is not for you you don't have to .

you have obviously never been sued, insurance is no guarantee that you will not loose everything you ever worked for.

while yes if you have land the possibility of trespassers is possible its not a guarantee that you will have trespassers,  just like the locks on your house or car posted signs only keep the honest people honest.

 

voluntary is the only way it could be done, just don't expect a long list of volunteers to sign up.

[Hunter007]

12 minutes ago, ....rob said:

There's a third, the people who own the land hunt it and don't want anyone else on there. 

This right here is the best reply anyone will ever need to a post like this!

 

Or there hiding illegal activities like baiting deer on that land 

[moog5050]

10 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Or there hiding illegal activities like baiting deer on that land 

Talk about absurd assumptions.  I paid good money for my land and i pay the taxes and now I should open it up to everyone to prove I don’t bait.   Cmon.  Get real.  Losing credibility real quick.  

There are literally thousands of acres of public land in ny.  The argument that access is a problem is without merit. Sure hunters may want to hunt closer to home or more deer dense property but there is public access to plenty of acres where Deer are killed every year.   Put the work in to hunt public or put the work in to buy or lease your own private.  But stop complaining that you don’t get the benefits of prime private for free. 

And Merry Christmas.  

Edited December 25, 2017 by moog5050

[reeltime]

12 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Or there hiding illegal activities like baiting deer on that land 

this speaks volumes.

[DirtTime]

9 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Or there hiding illegal activities like baiting deer on that land 

Take a look at how many people on this site will not allow others to hunt the private land they own/lease and have put work into! So, are you saying those people are doing naughty things? I doubt it! If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would buy a house with at least 200 acres of land. I don't use trail cams, I would never use bait, and I most likely would never plant plots. I wouldn't let anyone hunt my land, I didn't know pretty well. So, by your theory, I would be hiding something? NOPE!

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, reeltime said:

you have obviously never been sued, insurance is no guarantee that you will not loose everything you ever worked for.

while yes if you have land the possibility of trespassers is possible its not a guarantee that you will have trespassers,  just like the locks on your house or car posted signs only keep the honest people honest.

 

voluntary is the only way it could be done, just don't expect a long list of volunteers to sign up.

Just to let you know some scumbag acually sued  me anyway that was trespassing on my property  you have property you can be sued does not even matter if that person was allowed there they can sue you anyway .  But if the state sponsors it it is  the state who will get sued 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Talk about absurd assumptions.  I paid good money for my land and i pay the taxes and now I should open it up to everyone to prove I don’t bait.   Cmon.  Get real.  Losing credibility real quick.  

There are literally thousands of acres of public land in ny.  The argument that access is a problem is without merit. Sure hunters may want to hunt closer to home or more deer dense property but there is public access to plenty of acres where Deer are killed every year.   Put the work in to hunt public or put the work in to buy or lease your own private.  But stop complaining that you don’t get the benefits of prime private for free. 

And Merry Christmas.  

So why not open up even more of it to hunting if possible .

Does not have to be your land it's voluntary 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, ....rob said:

Take a look at how many people on this site will not allow others to hunt the private land they own/lease and have put work into! So, are you saying those people are doing naughty things? I doubt it! If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would buy a house with at least 200 acres of land. I don't use trail cams, I would never use bait, and I most likely would never plant plots. I wouldn't let anyone hunt my land, I didn't know pretty well. So, by your theory, I would be hiding something? NOPE!

Good  for you  . What about the many land owners that dont give a f about hunting one way or the other and just have land parked as a investment in many cases or inherited.

That would like a tax break from the  idea 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Storm914

[wolc123]

There are not many states that have more public land open to hunting than NY.  At the same time, there are not many that have more hunters, so I suppose much of that cancels out.   If you are single, and want more access to private land, all you got to do is marry the right girl.   Ask Belo how that works.  I know I would have no access to great hunting in the Northern Zone, had not the Good Lord set me up with my perfect match.  Without her and her folks, my kills would have been about half of what they have been over the last 5 years.     

[Hunter007]

How about we here from people that dont buy land to hunt on now ?

 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, ....rob said:

Take a look at how many people on this site will not allow others to hunt the private land they own/lease and have put work into! So, are you saying those people are doing naughty things? I doubt it! If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would buy a house with at least 200 acres of land. I don't use trail cams, I would never use bait, and I most likely would never plant plots. I wouldn't let anyone hunt my land, I didn't know pretty well. So, by your theory, I would be hiding something? NOPE!

No not all people bait that hunt on  there own land,  don't know  how many do .but I can take a educated guess and say that if you're just buying land to hunt on and it is not that large and you still not getting results those people more then likely will start to bait out of fustration probably.

 

 

 

[Hunter007]

O btw 

[nyslowhand]

Obvious answer to the OP's question is for NYS to increase taxes to be able to purchase land for ALL of NY'ers to enjoy in numerous ways. We all know that would create a revolt!

BTW - Just because NY requires a paid license to hunt, doesn't meant they are responsible for providing you unlimited hunting/fishing opportunities on state land. These funds collected for sporting licenses is "in theory" meant to fund the DEC's activities.

Not to turn this into a political thread, but some of the DEC annual funds that could potentially be used for buying land for NY'ers to access is transferred into the state's dreaded general fund. Don't like your current hunting /fishing opportunities, contact your state, elected officials and complain or better yet offer feasible solutions.

JMO, but offering tax breaks to land owners to open up their property to the masses isn't a viable or realistic solution. In fact it's a pretty cringe-worthy thought!!!

Edited December 25, 2017 by nyslowhand

[Doc]

There is an unwarranted fear of state land. People have developed a picture of hunters behind every tree, blazing away at anything that moves. They have heard that all the deer on public land have been shot and that public land is a hotbed of drunken crazies that will shoot you if you stand still long enough for them to draw a bead on you.

Frankly, it seems to me that most of the hunting incidents that I hear about, happen on private land. And slob hunters seem to show up on all kinds of land, public or private. In fact it is usually private land where guys wander out wearing full camo in gun season, apparently feeling positive that they are the only ones on the land, and obviously unaware of the concept of trespass.

But anyway, people are convinced that if you can't find any private land, you might as well not go hunting. That coupled with the fact that more and more land is getting locked up may very well account for the reduction in the hunter population.

[vizslas]

land is in short supply unless your the state . they have very large plots of land to hunt. and that's not going to change.If you want land to hunt well all i have to say is work for it . I have killed bucks in a few different state forests. never got shot and I now wear full camo every gun season "DOC". Thats not going to change. Wolc will tell you when your numbers is up it just that its up. orange is not going to help you.  Keep the city folk in the city. that has to be about the stupidest thing I have read on here in a long time.Morons do exist santa. This is a great idea in theory but thats just it , something like this will never come to fruition.

[Doc]

Ha-ha.... I guess everyone has heard of "suicide by cop". Well, it could be that we have now heard of someone trying to commit "suicide by hunter".

[Jeremy K]

13 hours ago, stubby68 said:

Do away with big buck clubs and do away with being able to mount animals. No scoring no mounting no bragging just simple old hunting. Make city guys stay in the city. Land never started getting locked up until the big buck craze. People use  to be more then happy to let anyone hunt their land. City guys started watching hunting shows and seeing the unrealistic hunting with unrealistic results then they started buying up land and locking it up so they could get big bucks. Biggest problem with land access that everyone is afraid someone else will shoot their big buck. Use to be that no one cared who shot what. 

Can we make sure the country boys stop poaching all the big bucks too? o ya ,get them to stop stealing tree stands during the week also.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Jeremy K