Gun Ownership Up & Violent Crime Down per FBI

[steve863]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

Dave

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought? ???  How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner?  When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it.  If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner.  Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally".

Well do they?

As laws currently stand, in most cases they probably don't buy them legally.  But it surely IS a good thing that the distinction could be made to what is legal and what isn't.  If you guys had it your way, and started scrapping all gun laws, there could be NO distinction made at all.  Glad that you agree that laws pertaining to guns are a good thing after all! LOL

[Culvercreek hunt club]

In my view the current laws....(in my county anyway) don't seem to even approach reasonable. 8-9 months for a permit yet I can get my security clearance for admission to a classified FBI facility in 4 weeks. prints, background checks and all.

[virgil]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

So, by this logic should we do away with immigration laws and drug laws also?  The existing laws don't seem to stop illegal immigration or the drug trade- so, should we just open the borders and legalize narcotics?  From what i've read on other threads on this forum, i don't think too many of the gun advocates (or anyone else) believes that would be a good idea.

[virgil]

  In my view the current laws....(in my county anyway) don't seem to even approach reasonable. 8-9 months for a permit yet I can get my security clearance for admission to a classified FBI facility in 4 weeks. prints, background checks and all.     is there any chance that the long waiting period is intentional- to minimize the possibility that someone might be impulsively looking to buy a gun with dangerous intentions.  i'm asking honestly, not being a wiseguy.

[Dave]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

Dave

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought? ???  How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner?  When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it.  If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner.  Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally".

Well do they?

As laws currently stand, in most cases they probably don't buy them legally.  But it surely IS a good thing that the distinction could be made to what is legal and what isn't.  If you guys had it your way, and started scrapping all gun laws, there could be NO distinction made at all.  Glad that you agree that laws pertaining to guns are a good thing after all! LOL

Steve I have no problems with laws that keep guns out of the hands of criminals and wackos. It's when they try to take the guns from law biding citizens. Or making them jump through hoops to get access to guns. If they would enforce the laws in the first place we wouldn't have half the problems we have now. Case in point Plaxico Burress N.Y Giant football player has an illegal gun, shoots himself in a crowded night club putting the public in harms way. They take the gun over the state line to N.J. Gets just 20 months, is that justice? This guy is about 6'6" about 250 #, what does he need a gun for? Now the media and the N.Y fans welcome him with open arms, he should still be in jail. Do you think that if anyone on this site was involved in anything like this that his job would be waiting for him? If we put them away for along time this would deter them from carrying guns, but they just get a slap on the wrist.

Dave

Dave

Dave

[steve863]

Steve I have no problems with laws that keep guns out of the hands of criminals and wackos. It's when they try to take the guns from law biding citizens.

Dave

Dave

Dave

Good, then we agree that there is such a thing as good gun laws.  And to weed out the criminals and whackos, the rest of us will of course have to subject ourselves to some sort of background check for how else will anyone know who is the criminal and who isn't.  No big deal, and it wouldn't have to take 8 months if we went to some sort of uniform nationwide law.  You guys get all fired up over nothing at the mere mention of "gun laws" when NEW gun laws could mean improvements to what we currently have.  Keeping our head up our a$$es and not thinking of better ways gets us no where.  Pushing for NO laws and to follow the 2nd amendment as if we lived in 1776 will not swing in 2011 or any future year, I am sorry to have to tell you.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

So, by this logic should we do away with immigration laws and drug laws also? The existing laws don't seem to stop illegal immigration or the drug trade- so, should we just open the borders and legalize narcotics?  From what i've read on other threads on this forum, i don't think too many of the gun advocates (or anyone else) believes that would be a good idea.

No. There's no mention of being an illegal alien and using drugs in the constitution.

[virgil]

No. There's no mention of being an illegal alien and using drugs in the constitution.

Exactly the point- time to wake up and acknowledge that times have changed.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Weak sauce.

edit: Virgil, I don't mean to offend, I just don't feel there is much to be weighed in your response.

[fasteddie]

In my view the current laws....(in my county anyway) don't seem to even approach reasonable. 8-9 months for a permit yet I can get my security clearance for admission to a classified FBI facility in 4 weeks. prints, background checks and all.

In 1998 I had to wait 16 weeks for my pistol permit . I was told that most of the wait was where the p/w sat in a pile on a judge's desk until there was enough for him to bother with .  ???

[nyantler]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

Dave

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought? ???  How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner?  When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it.  If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner.  Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally".

If there is no law against it... then it is legal... even if a criminal does it...  the point that was made about NICS checks is that they are unnecessary because they do not stop criminals from getting guns... a criminal that wants a gun can get one anywhere on the black market... NICs checks or not... so they only serve to further hassle law abiding citizens and do nothing to stop ciminals from getting guns or committing a crime.

The difference between buying a gun from a dealer and the street corner... is that the gun dealer has rules to follow to operate and must have a license... the street corner guy doesn't... thats why criminals buy off the street corner and us law abiding citizens don't. For the record I'm not against all gun laws... just the ones that do nothing to stop gun crimes... which happens to be almost all of them

[nyantler]

No. There's no mention of being an illegal alien and using drugs in the constitution.

Exactly the point- time to wake up and acknowledge that times have changed.

Times haven't changed... the only change is that there are some that don't like people taking care of their own lives... they would rather see the government babysitting and controlling citizens lives thinking they know what is best... How many times does it have to be proven that everything they touch turns to crap for the average American... more and more constitutional freedoms taken away in the name of change... it's BS... it's just a power grab by politicians and and rich liberals that have no idea how the average middle class Americans live... it amazes me how many buy in to their crap.

[Dave]

Guys check this out especially Steve and Virgil. Now we have to worry about the UN in opposition to our 2nd amendment.

Dave

http://blogs.forbes.com/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/

[virgil]

While the terms have yet to be made public, if passed by the U.N. and ratified by our Senate, it will almost certainly force the U.S. to:

How can you take this article seriously when a few lines the author admits that he doesn't have any of the details.  And, exactly what power does the UN have to enact laws in the US?

[Dave]

maybe you haven't noticed who the president is and his stand on gun control.

Dave

[Doewhacker]

Guys check this out especially Steve and Virgil. Now we have to worry about the UN in opposition to our 2nd amendment.

Dave

http://blogs.forbes.com/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

Dave, don't beleive every thing some one puts on the internet in a blog..

[virgil]

Larry Bell is not exactly known for letting facts get in the way of good propaganda- his rants about climate change were debunked also.

[Dave]

Guys check this out especially Steve and Virgil. Now we have to worry about the UN in opposition to our 2nd amendment.

Dave

http://blogs.forbes.com/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

Dave, don't beleive every thing some one puts on the internet in a blog..

Doe, I don't believe everything but it is something to think about. Who thought Obama care would pass, now it's here unless it's overturned.

Dave

[Doewhacker]

Dave thats not how it would work, if such a UN treaty did exist it would have to go through the Supreme court and get a 2/3 vote through Congress, neither of which are going to happen. Not remotely the same as Health care.

[Dave]

Dave thats not how it would work, if such a UN treaty did exist it would have to go through the Supreme court and get a 2/3 vote through Congress, neither of which are going to happen. Not remotely the same as Health care.

OK, no argument from me.

Dave

[Culvercreek hunt club]

  In my view the current laws....(in my county anyway) don't seem to even approach reasonable. 8-9 months for a permit yet I can get my security clearance for admission to a classified FBI facility in 4 weeks. prints, background checks and all.     is there any chance that the long waiting period is intentional- to minimize the possibility that someone might be impulsively looking to buy a gun with dangerous intentions.  i'm asking honestly, not being a wiseguy.

I wouldn't think the "ccol down period" would really fall into their thoughts. One that is bent on reacting like that could get a long gun in muuch shorter time. I don't mind waiting a reasonable amount of time.....I'd even consider 6 months fair if it gave us the ability to carry in the country.....not just state by state. (or group of states).  I do agree with some on here that the gun laws do seem to have little real effect o the crime. Here in Rochester they can be had very easily. Unfortuantely the same groups that seem bent on hampering the average guys ability to carry are the same ones that want to hold the criminals hands....dump tons of money in failed rehabilitation and turn them back on the streets to commit crimes again. I would buy the checks and waiting periods if they would be willing to stiffen up the penalties on the violent gun offenders. kill someone....death .....use a gun in commision of a crime., any crime...life in a box (not the current country clubs). until the penalties are so stiff that it is a deterrant........no law will have an effect

[Doc]

  is there any chance that the long waiting period is intentional- to minimize the possibility that someone might be impulsively looking to buy a gun with dangerous intentions.  i'm asking honestly, not being a wiseguy.

If you are suggesting that long waiting periods are indeed contrived, (and I suspect you may be right), it doesn't matter what the motive. Such contrived foot-dragging is then obviously another example of a campaign of indescriminant harrassment of ALL potential gunowners, including the vast majority which happen to be law abiding citizens. Such a policy of harrassment is exactly what many of our gun laws have become. It's just one more example of a gun restriction law that was passed for one purpose and is being corrupted by those administering it for their own interpretations and motives. My suspicions are that such a campaign of orchestrated stalling has absolutely nothing to do with preventing impulse law-breaking. When the waiting times are purposely manipulated to be as long as some that I have read in this thread, the motive becomes plain and obvious to be that of harrassment with the hope that many potential gun owners will be frustrated out of pursuing their exercise of their 2nd amendment rights. Is that what our legal system should be involved in? With such tactics being employed by those who administer and create gun restrictions, is it really any wonder that people become suspicious of further laws? I think the suspicions are warranted.

[fasteddie]

It initially took me 16 weeks to get my original pistol permit . The rest of them only took a couple weeks .

[WNYBuckHunter]

The rest of them?

[fasteddie]

I should have typed "addemdums" rather than saying the rest of them .