CWD. Are we just lucky?

[land 1]

ummm where did he say it kills all mature bucks??? I also know we are talking whitetails but I just watched a show I think it was Wyoming they were taking survey and doing a study on CWD with mule deer and from what they said this area was so bad with CWD  1 in 3 deer have it and it has knocked the herd down 70percent.

[landtracdeerhunter]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

It's the new Maxine Waters debating style ..... lol. Can't you just picture the bulging vein in the forehead, and the spit flying out of the mouth as FSW loses his mind at learning there are actually people that would dare to disagree with him. It's just a personality thing with him ..... Don't be concerned.

It's more to it than that Doc, it hits a big way, his business. It's not bad enough that this state just keeps hitting existing business below the belt, but you try working with the New York DEC. ; and I'm talking more than hunting. You play by their rules and just when things are working , they go ahead a change the rules. Generate revenues and sets job security. This state is so dam corrupt, it stinks. (Aside for using a more fitting word.)Not sure if it's no different in any other state, but New York sure has the lead.

 

Although I don't agree with FSW word choice style, I can relate to several good points brought up.

Edited June 30, 2018 by landtracdeerhunter

[Four Season Whitetail's]

It's more to it than that Doc, it hits a big way, his business. It's not bad enough that this state just keeps hitting existing business below the belt, but you try working with the New York DEC. ; and I'm talking more than hunting. You play by their rules and just when things are working , they go ahead a change the rules. Generate revenues and sets job security. This state is so dam corrupt, it stinks. (Aside for using a more fitting word.)Not sure if it's no different in any other state, but New York sure has the lead.
 
Although I don't agree with FSW word choice style, I can relate to several good points brought up.

Although your words have merit it really is just the opposite. When DEC decided to shut the borders chasing this ghost they made our industry double and even triple in my case. Now ranch owners in Ny have to buy from Ny farms and that kinda raised the price of poker. Where I was selling 30-40 animals a year I am now at 60 plus and can't keep a buck on the property better than 2yrs old. I have never had DEC on my property in the 20 plus years I have been in business. We work with Dept Of Ag, After all these are livestock. Although the state really does put the hurt on most business in the state in this case it was just the opposite. High fence in Ny is growing more popular every year and the demand stays strong year after year. The older folks that stop buying Ny tags that in turn shows a drop in hunters do not all just quit totally. Many just go a different direction.


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[sodfather]

Not sure but do you have to pay sales tax for selling deer ? The state businesses that don’t have to pay state tax on what they sell or pay for disability or workman’s comp insurance for their employees I’d say have a huge advantage. It’s the business that has employees get the shaft. 

[Doc]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:43 AM, landtracdeerhunter said:

It's more to it than that Doc, it hits a big way, his business. It's not bad enough that this state just keeps hitting existing business below the belt, but you try working with the New York DEC. ; and I'm talking more than hunting. You play by their rules and just when things are working , they go ahead a change the rules. Generate revenues and sets job security. This state is so dam corrupt, it stinks. (Aside for using a more fitting word.)Not sure if it's no different in any other state, but New York sure has the lead.

 

Although I don't agree with FSW word choice style, I can relate to several good points brought up.

I'll admit that I don't know anything about deer farming, and frankly I have no real interest in learning much about it. But My comment has nothing to do with business, but simply civility in discussions. Somehow I don't think that being rude to a member here will have much impact on the bottom line of his business. I really don't see the correlation. If there is a problem with government administration vs business, this is probably not the place to take out frustrations against other members.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'll admit that I don't know anything about deer farming, and frankly I have no real interest in learning much about it. But My comment has nothing to do with business, but simply civility in discussions. Somehow I don't think that being rude to a member here will have much impact on the bottom line of his business. I really don't see the correlation. If there is a problem with government administration vs business, this is probably not the place to take out frustrations against other members.

Trust me...The calling out of the stupidity of a post was meant for just that. The only frustration there may be is when uneducated people make stupid comments on post's that they know absolutely nothing about.

The trend will continue i'm sure.

[Larry]

So what FSW is saying is people from the CDC and other places like research institutions. that are doing work on CWD and even outdoor magazines that have reported on CWD are all stupid. But the small organization of deer farmers has all the answers. I’m not saying their wrong or anything but the stupid thing would be not to do your own research. (lookup studies on CWD)

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So what FSW is saying is people from the CDC and other places like research institutions. that are doing work on CWD and even outdoor magazines that have reported on CWD are all stupid. But the small organization of deer farmers has all the answers. I’m not saying their wrong or anything but the stupid thing would be not to do your own research. (lookup studies on CWD)

What I am saying is I can promise you I know a he!! If a lot more about CWD then you ever will. I guess it all make sense with your way of thinking if you are listening to the outdoor magazines and groups like the QDMA with the agendas to push out their biggest compEtition with non facts and outright lie's If you want to look up the research just take a look at how the high fence industry has been doing the real research on CWD and doing DNA studies and breeding with only deer with certain markers like the sheep industry that are resistant to CWD prion just as sheep are with scrapies which is the same as CWD in deer. So what will happen here in the near future is that if CWD does run rampant in the states and wild herds the high fence industry will once again be at the top and the go to place for clean disease free animals. So you as Wolc should probably educate yourself.


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[Doc]

Frankly I am always a bit suspicious of self-anointed experts whose only credibility is their own word. It could be that your self-proclaimed expertise has more to do with your own personal (financial) axe to grind than any real bona fide research and knowledge.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Frankly I am always a bit suspicious of self-anointed experts whose only credibility is their own word. It could be that your self-proclaimed expertise has more to do with your own personal (financial) axe to grind than any real bona fide research and knowledge.

Less yapping about something you admit you are clueless about would fit you best. Not real sure about this ax you speak of comes into the picture? 20 plus years and my business does nothing but grow every year. This ghost, and what they have done while chasing it has done nothing but put more 0's in my bank account. The only grinding being done is on the pencil.


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[Lawdwaz]

The bug is drawn to the light.......

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The bug is drawn to the light.......

It's obvious the light is on for very few. Amazing the stupid comments on a subject most know nothing about. Don't even know the facts of their own state let alone the country. Read it in a hunting magazine.... It must be true!


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[dbHunterNY]

CWD was known to be found in captive deer and wild deer in Oneida county back in early 2000's.  Nobody knows where it came from here and often nobody knows where it comes from when it pops up in a new location anywhere.  Purely speculation, but i think there's so many people out there ready and waiting to prove DEC is full of crap that if it existed in NY someone would find out to make them look bad or wrong. So I think at this time it's most likely not here, but that's said not with absolute certainty.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

CWD was known to be found in captive deer and wild deer in Oneida county back in early 2000's.  Nobody knows where it came from here and often nobody knows where it comes from when it pops up in a new location anywhere.  Purely speculation, but i think there's so many people out there ready and waiting to prove DEC is full of crap that if it existed in NY someone would find out to make them look bad or wrong. So I think at this time it's most likely not here, but that's said not with absolute certainty.

Whats not speculation is that John was not a deer farmer but a Taxidermist and a rehabber for the state of Ny. Whats also is not speculation is that the 3 positives at Johns place actually came from the DEC dropped from local people from the local deer herd.

Funny part is that there were cases on both sides of the fence, None of the property was fenced off from any deer being in contact and there has not been another case?  That does not fit the bill for the way this disease has shown itself to work.

You will not see a case in the wild until one is found on a farm or ranch first.  With farms and ranches testing 100% and the state testing less than 1% that will most likely be the case. Even in this closed border state which has had no deer brought in from any state for like 6 years now!

[dbHunterNY]

10 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Whats not speculation is that John was not a deer farmer but a Taxidermist and a rehabber for the state of Ny. Whats also is not speculation is that the 3 positives at Johns place actually came from the DEC dropped from local people from the local deer herd.

Funny part is that there were cases on both sides of the fence, None of the property was fenced off from any deer being in contact and there has not been another case?  That does not fit the bill for the way this disease has shown itself to work.

You will not see a case in the wild until one is found on a farm or ranch first.  With farms and ranches testing 100% and the state testing less than 1% that will most likely be the case. Even in this closed border state which has had no deer brought in from any state for like 6 years now!

they know which deer tested positive. they still don't know how or where those deer got it from; the guy's place, parts related to taxidermy jobs,  area where the fawns came from, etc.

it's hard for me to say how it hasn't spread from there. could be lots of reasons. maybe the positive deer weren't traveling far to contaminate a large area. maybe the deer around the guy's place get hammered pretty good each fall so any potentially positive deer doesn't get a chance to spread it.  all speculation on my part i don't know john or the situation there enough to say much.

while i get what you're saying with percent tested, what you said doesn't seem to be true.  you just posted a picture from www.cwdfacts.com saying that CWD was tested and found in wild deer without finding any in a captive population first.  so efforts of testing wild deer aren't dependent on testing local captive deer first. still both should be tested for monitoring purposes all the same as it is now.  if something were to pop up it's better to find out sooner than later to slow the spread or snuff it out with whatever actions the DEC or USDA decide are necessary.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Point is they say it's in the environment for year. Up to 16 plus. And no new cases? Kinda strange. Regardless it's still just a ghost of a political disease which has proven itself to be of very little harm to a herd. In fact it's probably the last way a whitetail will ever die in its lifetime. Pretty good odds for the deer.


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[dbHunterNY]

3 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Point is they say it's in the environment for year. Up to 16 plus. And no new cases? Kinda strange. Regardless it's still just a ghost of a political disease which has proven itself to be of very little harm to a herd. In fact it's probably the last way a whitetail will ever die in its lifetime. Pretty good odds for the deer.


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i think more people than not think CWD is reason for concern and very much bad for deer.  your opinion is just a different opinion. CWD is always fatal. some infected deer last longer than others.  us killing many of them with weapons or vehicles often first, doesn't change anything. still means lousy odds for a deer.  knowing that we can play a bad roll in screwing the deer over by helping CWD spread more than it naturally would and that we very well might be indirectly where it came from, we should feel obligated to at least trying to make it better. that's the whole idea of conservation.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yeah kinda like these numbers in Texas. It's really doing a number on those poor deer.


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[catskillkid]

My Dad always said.....he who argues with a fool is a fool himself.

[grampy]

3 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Point is they say it's in the environment for year. Up to 16 plus. And no new cases? Kinda strange. Regardless it's still just a ghost of a political disease which has proven itself to be of very little harm to a herd. In fact it's probably the last way a whitetail will ever die in its lifetime. Pretty good odds for the deer.


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So your point is CWD is good for deer populations? Or at the very least, not bad for deer populations? Just want to be clear where you stand on this.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So your point is CWD is good for deer populations? Or at the very least, not bad for deer populations? Just want to be clear where you stand on this.

CWD is the least of a deers worry when it comes to life and death. CWD has not any kind of real harm to any herds and I most states the population jumps. Same positive states are settting records year in and year out. Is it worth the worry or money that the states have put into it? Not even close.


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[Doc]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:40 AM, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Less yapping about something you admit you are clueless about would fit you best. Not real sure about this ax you speak of comes into the picture? 20 plus years and my business does nothing but grow every year. This ghost, and what they have done while chasing it has done nothing but put more 0's in my bank account. The only grinding being done is on the pencil.
 

I don't have to be a CWD expert to recognize rudeness, distasteful personal attacks and an almost frantic need to be considered some kind of expert. I am curious as to your credentials that make you worth listening to. I am also curious as to how you think those credentials are enhanced by displaying an argumentative and belligerent personality. I also must add that just because you have been in the deer farming business does not make you a wild game biologist. But it is for sure that someone who stands around trying frantically to convince every one of their expertise probably doesn't really have any.

Hard to believe but I guess you have never heard the term of "having an ax to grind", but it is always kind of smart to regard with suspicion the arguments of someone who has a financial reason to color their opinions.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

I don't have to be a CWD expert to recognize rudeness, distasteful personal attacks and an almost frantic need to be considered some kind of expert. I am curious as to your credentials that make you worth listening to. I am also curious as to how you think those credentials are enhanced by displaying an argumentative and belligerent personality. I also must add that just because you have been in the deer farming business does not make you a wild game biologist. But it is for sure that someone who stands around trying frantically to convince every one of their expertise probably doesn't really have any.

Hard to believe but I guess you have never heard the term of "having an ax to grind", but it is always kind of smart to regard with suspicion the arguments of someone who has a financial reason to color their opinions.

Again you blab on with nothing to counter the facts that are shown. If you can prove something i say is false then the stage is yours!

Not sure what makes you think this is any detriment to my business but the facts are the state chasing the ghost has only made my business and life even better.   I cant wait till every state in the country has CWD and they continue to show the same thing positive states are showing now.  Absolutely Nothing.

Funny how nobody is worried about the food industry being loaded up with scrapie positive meat which is the same prion.  

[SteveB]

4 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

    I cant wait till every state in the country has CWD and they continue to show the same thing positive states are showing now.  Absolutely Nothing.

 

Can't wait till every state in the country has CWD?  Pretty telling character reveal there - and a surprise to no one here I bet.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Can't wait till every state in the country has CWD?  Pretty telling character reveal there - and a surprise to no one here I bet.

Has nothing to do with character. That will show the true facts all across the country and stop the money by the states using CWD research as the ploy. When it hits every state it will disappear faster then the Ebola Disease did.


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