DEC DEER Rating in your WMU?

[SteveMcD]

Yes, okay. I'm eating tag soup. But not sour grapes. I hunted WMU's 3F, 3N and 4Y this past season. Regarding deer sightings by Grade:

4Y- gets a C- average 2 deer per day or 1 for every 5 hours in stand

3N - gets an F - 50 hours time spent 2 deer spotted

3F - gets an F - 40 hours time spent 0 (zero) deer seen

It does not take a genius to see that in many parts of the state the deer herd numbers have been on a serious decline over the past 10 years or so. The DEC needs to start listening to it's PAYING customers (the sportsman), instead of the insurance companies. The DEC is quoted as saying 2011 started out slow but then picked up, and is "on par" with 2010 harvest numbers. So that's supposed to be a good report???!!! They were both horrible years!!!

Would love to see a one buck rule and better administration and management of DMP's.

I'm just sayin'..

[WNYBuckHunter]

While my doe sightings were down a bit, I think it had more to do with too much pressure on the farm I hunted. I saw some does and a bunch of bucks on that farm. At the other spot I normally hunt, I saw the usual crap load of does and a couple of bucks, par for that area. The only other spot I hunted was the same as its always been, but I dont spend enough time there to have an opinion if its better or worse. All 3 areas are within 8H, and Id say the deer population is high, as per usual.

[BizCT]

"3N - gets an F - 50 hours time spent 2 deer spotted" > I disagree.

Me and my father each took a buck during shotgun season in 3N. We each could have used both of our DMP Tags each if we wanted does. Lastly, I could have used my late bow/ml tag with the crossbow on a doe if I wanted.

So the 2 of us could have harvested a total of 7 deer in 3N easily, without hunting many days. Yes, some of this was private 8 acres in Carmel, but I hunted Lockwood Unit (Watershed Property) for less than 3 hours 10am - 1pm on Saturday 12/17, and saw 2 does and a spike. Also saw a ton of deer hair by the parking area there, so its safe to assume several deer were taken out of there during archery and shotgun seasons. I saw 2 ladder stands, etc.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Doc]

"3N - gets an F - 50 hours time spent 2 deer spotted" > I disagree.

Me and my father each took a buck during shotgun season in 3N. We each could have used both of our DMP Tags each if we wanted does. Lastly, I could have used my late bow/ml tag with the crossbow on a doe if I wanted.

Lol ...... That's why I don't like to comment on the state of the deer herd, even down to the WMU level. Too often I have seen this kind of thing happen where one part of a WMU (or township for that matter) seems to be deerless, and another part will have a pocket of over-population. I think a lot of it maybe has to do with the history of hunter pressure. In an area where deer habitually get hammered (such as state land near a city), your observations will never agree with someone nearby who hunts private land where the hunter numbers are severely limited. Those are the two extremes and of course you will have all other kinds of variations in between. And all that in the same WMU or perhaps even in the township I've seen it within the same valley where one end is a bit flatter and contains a lot of farms and the other has given up farming a long time ago.

I have also seen pockets of private land that gets worse pressure than any public lands and I have suspicions that there may be a lot of lawlessness going on there. Funny how those guys were whining about how low the deer population was this year ..... lol.

So anyway, I wouldn't expect a lot of agreement about a whole WMU. It's kind of like commenting on the hunting in the whole state.

[BizCT]

agreed. Also the technique and ability of each hunters vastly varies. Some guys sit for 15 minutes at most, then walk around all day and complain they dont see anything, etc. Or guys go in after 1st light, etc.

[steve863]

Biz-R-O, with all due respect I think you and your dad should consider yourselves more than lucky to be as successful as you are on 8 lousy acres. It is obviously a spot deer like to frequent, so I don't know if you should be taking the upper hand as to hunting skill here. I just don't see anyone being able to utilize any extraordinary hunting skills on 8 acres of land. It's more like you guys just have a really good spot, so in a spot like that, even the guy who fidgets and shows up after sun up would sooner or later be successful. Not knocking you here, I just think SteveMcD not seeing much in your unit carries a little more weight than you guys seeing a ton of stuff on your 8 acres.

[BizCT]

I can't disagree more. We hunt dark to dark and right near a hunting club which im sure pressure the crap out of deer. My father and I have killed many bucks on public watershed property in Putnam County, when we dont get them on private property. The key is to get away from the "orange army", and then when everybody leaves the woods at 10-11am for lunch, they kick up all the deer. You cant shoot deer sitting in your house.

The original poster talks about 50 hours in the woods, like thats a lot? thats a little more 4 days only. So 2 days he could have seen nothing, which happens. It happens to us all the time, and the other 2 days he could have seen 1 deer each, which is not uncommon.

In regards to the lousy 8 acres we hunt, the deer dont eat there or bed there. Its simply a pass-through spot SOMETIMES. Some years its first light, other years its never, some years its middle of the day. This year it was last light.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Biz-R-OWorld

[steve863]

Did you ever think that having the hunting club next to you may just work in your advantage?

Lots of guys come out of the woods for a bit while hunting and still get deer. It surely isn't a must to be out there all day to be successful. In fact, I think the hunter can refresh themselves by taking a break. Sitting out there an entire day in 7 degree temperatures will not make the hunter very observant after a few hours. When one becomes too uncomfortable, it's time to get out, get something warm to eat and drink and try again later. No big deal. It's hunting, not a test of someone's endurance.

[BizCT]

Everyone is entitled to your opinion. I do know that every year, people from around the U.S, shoot deer between 10am - 2pm. The people who don't shoot these deer, are the people who aren't in the woods, right? You dont have to sit all day long. Mid-day I take a 2-3 hour walk, 2 steps stop/look/listen, and continue. I have snuck up on many deer like this.

Also everyone has their own techniques. I am a huge believer in being scent free, as quiet as possible, least amount of movement as possible, etc.. I also hunt from the ground, so these things are more important for someone like me, than someone in a treestand or ground blind.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Doc]

LOL ..... I sure didn't think this thread would turn into an "I'm a better hunter than you" kind of thing. That's interesting, I don't think we have had one of those yet. Maybe this is a first ..... lol. Maybe we all think we're a little special from time to time ....eh?

[BizCT]

All im saying is that you can't base your judgment of 3N based on 50 hours and seeing 2 deer. How many deer saw that hunter and he never saw them? could be 1 or 2 , or could be 10? so say it was 10, now 12 deer in 50 hours doesn't sound so bad right?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

From our party we had better than our average sightings and opportunities in 7R. The guys just can't shoot straight...lol.

In 5H we saw more bucks and does than usual during the early ML and first couple seeks of Rifle. Then it kind of dried up. I attribute that to pressure.

In 8H...well. pardon the french but we got screwed on the property this year. Standing corn until 2 weeks ago in adjacent land we can't hunt. Our soybeans got plowed as soon as they were harvested but the property to the north that had beans didn't. To the east of the property is about 300 acres of golden rod and there was no snow to knock it down. Readers digest version. bedding to feed wasnt through our area during gun. Bow we had excellent buck sightings and many doe. but we had beans then. There was a ton of shooting on adjacent property and we did take a few that got pushed through our funnel. just not the norm that we see.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Culvercreek hunt club

[ncountry]

LOL ..... I sure didn't think this thread would turn into an "I'm a better hunter than you" kind of thing. That's interesting, I don't think we have had one of those yet. Maybe this is a first ..... lol. Maybe we all think we're a little special from time to time ....eh?

Special !? Just a little special? Ahhh come on ,I are awesome.. Lol... kidding.. We all have our methods and different amounts of time we can use towards hunting.For example...

A guy that hunts a certain way and saw few deer this year probably has always hunted this way .. less deer is less deer..

There are many variables,the moon, the sun,the rain,the snow,standing crops,mast,hunting pressure, etc..... that affect the # of deer we see. There are too many people that have been reporting less deer sightings over the last few years. Why cannot we as hunters accept other hunters word on deer #s in THEIR area.

[First-light]

I'm over in 8P. I think the deer heard is in decline. The boys next to me did not see, and this goes for last year, the deer they used to see. This is 12 guys hunting 190 acres. My property did not see the level of does this year. We did manage to harvest 3 deer that go a long way to feeding our families. Better luck next year I guess.

[SteveMcD]

All im saying is that you can't base your judgment of 3N based on 50 hours and seeing 2 deer. How many deer saw that hunter and he never saw them? could be 1 or 2 , or could be 10? so say it was 10, now 12 deer in 50 hours doesn't sound so bad right?

Bix-R-OWhatever.... you crack me up! Please enlighten the entire New York State hunting community and share your vast knowledge and advanced unknown to most skills with the rest of us. Oh mighty Hunter.

First of all you are right, I only hunted several days in Fahnestock State Park, where the area is vast, deer could be anywhere, and restricted to BOW ONLY. I only hunted there after the the regular bow season ended and in December as to keep away from the gun hunting area. My other bow hunting area closed on November 30th. I am more than familar with the lay of the land in Fahnestock and have had successes there in the past.

I have 42 years deer hunting experience, 25 of those years as an instructor. Both Gun & Archery. But I'm just a one legged man in an ass-kickin contest, I wish I had your superior skills. Gimme a break!

If I sound blunt. Too Bad, I was not expecting a critique about me!

Edited December 21, 2011 by SteveMcD

[paddymac29]

i feel the season overall was a bust. the weather at the start was horrible, no deer movement and a hell of alot less deer than past years. 7m and 3s

[Doewhacker]

I guess I would call it average to slightly above average based on sightings. That would be spread over 4S, 5T, 4R, and 5S, ended at @70 deer seen for the year. It was 49 at the end of bow season and stayed that way until the Sunday of ML. Almost all of the sightings were in 4S.

[phade]

8H seemed like it took a slight downturn in overall numbers both buck and doe. I've trended down about 10% in sightings in 2009 to 2010 and then about 20% between 2010 to 2011. My percentage declines were fairly similar for bucks and does in 2010 but I had a huge dropoff in buck sightings on my main hunting ground despite good sign this year...so much so, that I have to discount much of my sighting information this season. Still haven't figured out why...

But, the doe numbers were down a bit this year. I'd rate this year as one of the worst I've had in recent memory.

[NFA-ADK]

5 H One week solo(bow) and 6 guys for 1 week rifle. 2 doe seen by one guy. Forever wild sucks for deer population... Would be nice if the DEC actually tried to help the deer out in these area's. But they are only to conserve not protect and nurture. Such a shame this resource is wasted when it is so vast... But lets close off another thousand acres to people who can not access it. THis way the only people who can access it is hikers like me. Tree huggers suck!!! Sorry needed to vent a little, lol...

[SteveMcD]

5 H One week solo(bow) and 6 guys for 1 week rifle. 2 doe seen by one guy. Forever wild sucks for deer population... Would be nice if the DEC actually tried to help the deer out in these area's. But they are only to conserve not protect and nurture. Such a shame this resource is wasted when it is so vast... But lets close off another thousand acres to people who can not access it. THis way the only people who can access it is hikers like me. Tree huggers suck!!! Sorry needed to vent a little, lol...

The good news is that Chris Amato who was responsible for the Adirondack UMP Plan has resigned. The whole deal with the purchase of the Moose River Plain Area was that it was to be forever managed for sportsman use. So now, they have locked out a large percentage of the population, whether it be disability or sheer physical capability to access the wilderness areas. Once again, the sportsman community got snookered on this one. Let's all make sure we let our representatives know that we don't what to see further DEC acquisitions go down the some UMP path, whereby only accessible to the few.

Edited December 21, 2011 by SteveMcD

[steve863]

5 H One week solo(bow) and 6 guys for 1 week rifle. 2 doe seen by one guy. Forever wild sucks for deer population... Would be nice if the DEC actually tried to help the deer out in these area's. But they are only to conserve not protect and nurture. Such a shame this resource is wasted when it is so vast... But lets close off another thousand acres to people who can not access it. THis way the only people who can access it is hikers like me. Tree huggers suck!!! Sorry needed to vent a little, lol...

So exactly what should be done to increase the deer population in the Adirondacks? Not like there was ever a big deer population up there. Funny, but I remembered you starting a thread over the summer about hunting mature deer. You said killing a doe was NO challenge, and here you are saying you hardly saw any. Hunting ANYTHING can be a challenge and that's what I think some big buck only hunters need to get straight. Last summer you seemed more than satisfied with the hunting in the Adirondacks and now you are singing a different tune it seems?? I honestly think it's no ones fault that there aren't many deer up there. It's pretty much the same in all big woods areas. Not like they will be starting to plant food plots on public land just to help out the deer and deer hunters.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So exactly what should be done to increase the deer population in the Adirondacks? Not like there was ever a big deer population up there. Funny, but I remembered you starting a thread over the summer about hunting mature deer. You said killing a doe was NO challenge, and here you are saying you hardly saw any. Hunting ANYTHING can be a challenge and that's what I think some big buck only hunters need to get straight. Last summer you seemed more than satisfied with the hunting in the Adirondacks and now you are singing a different tune it seems?? I honestly think it's no ones fault that there aren't many deer up there. It's pretty much the same in all big woods areas. Not like they will be starting to plant food plots on public land just to help out the deer and deer hunters.

http://huntingny.com...__fromsearch__1

No plots but I think the view that the chainsaws can't go in is wrong. Timber harvesting and selective clear cutting for wildlife habitat is not a bad thing as the tree huggers would have many believe. a mature forest can be much like a desert for alot of species.

[SteveMcD]

No plots but I think the view that the chainsaws can't go in is wrong. Timber harvesting and selective clear cutting for wildlife habitat is not a bad thing as the tree huggers would have many believe. a mature forest can be much like a desert for alot of species.

CCHC... I totally agree with you. The failure of the Adirondacks is the "Non-Management" of the whole area. "Forever Wild" really translates into "Forever Devoid of Wildlife". This is Forestry and Wildlife Management 101, and by state law the entire region goes unmanaged.

Interesting thought, "Adirondac" is derived from Algonquin Indian translation meaning "bark eaters". The Native Americans never wintered in the interiior of the Dacks because the winters were so severe. Sure they hunted and fished it around the seasons but never in winter.

[Doc]

My little tiny piece of 8N:

Population down very slightly from what little of the season that I actually got to use and observe. Given the eyeball problem, and the crappy weather at the start of bow season, I guess I did ok. I got my supply of venison.

[growalot]

Heres one for you...I sat out the first week of bow....I had one day...... 6am to 11am...... 42 deer walk by me....9 bucks and 38 I know to all be different deer...many passes and 2 deer taken bow season...Gun arrived...rarely saw deer ...cams pretty much devoid of pics...and managed to take just two doe ...in 8N during gun season....ML opens and cams are full of pics...doe and fawn only...I will not get another buck pic until late next summer...is what it is...lots of pressure but lots of swamp and a few no doe shooting .....thank God.....properties near by....

luck of the draw..be it 8 acres or 180 acres....by the way...I hunt every single day from bow opener to end of late archery...when not hunting...I'm out walking...it was just one single morning out of all the other with such a sighting...Now the next door neighbor(doe's and non-wall hangers off limits) swears there are no deer out there....