Vaccination

[Robhuntandfish]

5 minutes ago, Chef said:

The question is how long will this last with the new variants coming our way


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hopefully it doesnt mutate too much.

What i find ridiculous is having the term "China Virus" banned but its ok to call the variants "UK variant", "South African Variant"  lol.  Such stupid things to worry about when so much else needs to be done. 

[phade]

27 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

hopefully it doesnt mutate too much.

What i find ridiculous is having the term "China Virus" banned but its ok to call the variants "UK variant", "South African Variant"  lol.  Such stupid things to worry about when so much else needs to be done. 

You raise a good point.

My wife and mother were able to get their first shots on short notice due to openings. 

The good news about a few of the vaccines is I understand they are more easily adaptable to updates for the variants. I'll admit to having chugged along for the past year (almost) with this and just enduring like others, but I am ready to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I'm ready to go travel and hit an island for a week or two.

[Jeremy K]

42 minutes ago, Chef said:

The question is how long will this last with the new variants coming our way


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Since we have some people in the medical field with us, perhaps they can confirm or deny the news story I read . It was an article saying the WHO set new standards for what a positive case actually is . Something about using less sensitive testing as well. The story made mention that a single positive test is no longer acceptable for confirming someone's positive . I'm actually very curious to hear the truth as opposed to the news story I read. 

[SportsmanNH]

6 hours ago, Elmo said:

You should check where H1N1 came from.

2009 H1N1 Pandemic (H1N1pdm09 virus) | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

I stand corrected Elmo . I typed the wrong one down.  I meant SARS 

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

hopefully it doesnt mutate too much.

What i find ridiculous is having the term "China Virus" banned but its ok to call the variants "UK variant", "South African Variant"  lol.  Such stupid things to worry about when so much else needs to be done. 

Yes, excellent point; its such hypocrisy.  I think it all boils down to whether the term being applied references groups predominantly "white" or "non-white" based on this cultural hyper-sensitivity nonsense.  Black, brown and yellow people are perceived as the  minority "oppressed" and "victim" groups whereas white prople are viewed "oppressers" and "victimizers"; thus, its ok to apply virus labels that implicitly , may reference these groups but not the the "victimized groups, of course.  

[knehrke]

Not sure about a new standard, I need to read up, but I will state that as someone who uses PCR genotyping on a daily basis, setting the threshold for positive at 40 cycles seemed IMHO to be overly sensitive, resulting in excessive false positives. The consensus appeared to be that it was better to have false positives than false negatives.

As for modifying the vaccine to accommodate new variants, in theory it's simple. The mRNA is a synthetic reagent, and we can change the sequence at will to mimic the viral mutations. No escape!! In practice, it may be slightly more difficult (some mutations may result in a less antigenic protein fragment that just doesn't stimulate your immune system as effectively).

[left field]

I think there's a slight difference in naming a pandemic (or variant) after the area it originated and the way Trump used it which was an insult and accusation.

Banning use of the terms seems silly, but that's where we are now.

[Northcountryman]

Whats the difference in terms of the variant naming currently and the way Trump named the original?   Virus originated in China; perhaps it would have been better to refer to it as some sort of Wuhan strain, as someone on here previously suggested is standard protocol , IDK.  But then again, a bunch of respiratory viruses historically, have originated there anyway, so many would have the same moniker but a different number after it , I guess, lol. 

Theyre even saying now, that experts believe Spanish Flu originated in Wuhan too!! So, theyve been doing this shit for a long time...

[DoubleDose]

57 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Whats the difference in terms of the variant naming currently and the way Trump named the original?   Virus originated in China; perhaps it would have been better to refer to it as some sort of Wuhan strain, as someone on here previously suggested is standard protocol , IDK.  But then again, a bunch of respiratory viruses historically, have originated there anyway, so many would have the same moniker but a different number after it , I guess, lol. 

Theyre even saying now, that experts believe Spanish Flu originated in Wuhan too!! So, theyve been doing this shit for a long time...

China has been doing exactly what for a long time?  Global travel is responsible for taking local infections and making them pandemic.  China didn't export it like a commodity, product, (or weapon) and America didn't import it.  Travelers unknowingly carried it.  Just like when the Europeans came to the New World (America).  They brought the common cold, small pox, and chicken pox which devastated the natives; these were new infections to this area to which they had no immunity.  COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China.  Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". that is spreading infections via global travel.

Edited February 1, 2021 by DoubleDose
clarification

[Northcountryman]

 

"COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China. "- DD

No, I'm referring to the Chinese and stand by my earlier remarks.  This is why:

• COVID Did not likely oroginate from Europe as you content, but from Wuhan. The first  documented case in US was from a guy in Washington who just got back from Wuhan ,China
• SARS originated in Wuhan, China in 2004 (I think thats the year, not sure though)

 

Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". -DD

I understand what youre saying in terms of smallpox but the common cold ? Where is your evidence that that was transmitted from White settlers to the Indians and also, that it devsatated them.  Likely it was present long before , I would imagine, right? 

Never heard that

• Additionally, there is MORE evidence that Plague (i.e., black death) ALSO originated in Wuhan, China , although it is not proven.

So, it appears that They HAVE been doing this shit for a very  long time IMHO

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy K]

13 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

 

"COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China. "- DD

No, I'm referring to the Chinese and stand by my earlier remarks.  This is why:

• COVID Did not likely oroginate from Europe as you content, but from Wuhan. The first  documented case in US was from a guy in Washington who just got back from Wuhan ,China
• SARS originated in Wuhan, China in 2004 (I think thats the year, not sure though)

 

Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". -DD

I understand what youre saying in terms of smallpox but the common cold ? Where is your evidence that that was transmitted from White settlers to the Indians and also, that it devsatated them.  Likely it was present long before , I would imagine, right? 

Never heard that

• Additionally, there is MORE evidence that Plague (i.e., black death) ALSO originated in Wuhan, China , although it is not proven.

So, it appears that They HAVE been doing this shit for a very  long time IMHO

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure they found anti bodies in blood samples of people from the US before the first documented case went public , i read as early as December of 19. Nobody disputes the fact that early European settlers destroyed the american Indian population when they came here, the Indians didnt have the immune system capable of defending what the the European settlers were carrying in their system.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jeremy K

[Jeremy K]

10 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

 

"COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China. "- DD

No, I'm referring to the Chinese and stand by my earlier remarks.  This is why:

• COVID Did not likely oroginate from Europe as you content, but from Wuhan. The first  documented case in US was from a guy in Washington who just got back from Wuhan ,China
• SARS originated in Wuhan, China in 2004 (I think thats the year, not sure though)

 

Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". -DD

I understand what youre saying in terms of smallpox but the common cold ? Where is your evidence that that was transmitted from White settlers to the Indians and also, that it devsatated them.  Likely it was present long before , I would imagine, right? 

Never heard that

• Additionally, there is MORE evidence that Plague (i.e., black death) ALSO originated in Wuhan, China , although it is not proven.

So, it appears that They HAVE been doing this shit for a very  long time IMHO

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure they found anti bodies in blood samples of people from the US before the first documented case went public , i read as early as December of 19.

 

[Northcountryman]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I'm pretty sure they found anti bodies in blood samples of people from the US before the first documented case went public , i read as early as December of 19. Nobody disputes the fact that early European settlers destroyed the american Indian population when they came here, the Indians didnt have the immune system capable of defending what the the European settlers were carrying in their system.

 

Correct, nobody does but thats not what I'm talking about here .  DD raised that issue in response to my assertion that the Chinese--due to their continual reckless wet markets practices-- have been responsible for a GREAT deal of species jumping respiratory viral transmissions historically . Certainly not all , of course , but many... yes, I would say so.

[Elmo]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

 

"COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China. "- DD

No, I'm referring to the Chinese and stand by my earlier remarks.  This is why:

• COVID Did not likely oroginate from Europe as you content, but from Wuhan. The first  documented case in US was from a guy in Washington who just got back from Wuhan ,China
• SARS originated in Wuhan, China in 2004 (I think thats the year, not sure though)

 

Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". -DD

I understand what youre saying in terms of smallpox but the common cold ? Where is your evidence that that was transmitted from White settlers to the Indians and also, that it devsatated them.  Likely it was present long before , I would imagine, right? 

Never heard that

• Additionally, there is MORE evidence that Plague (i.e., black death) ALSO originated in Wuhan, China , although it is not proven.

So, it appears that They HAVE been doing this shit for a very  long time IMHO

 

 

 

 

Wow.  SARS originated in Guangdong, China.

The 1st wave of the Spanish flu never even reach China.

And the black plague?  Seriously?  I also heard the snake that told Eve to eat the apple also came from Wuhan.

[DoubleDose]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

 

"COVID19 most likely first came into America on the  East Coast via Europe; not West Coast via China. "- DD

No, I'm referring to the Chinese and stand by my earlier remarks.  This is why:

• COVID Did not likely oroginate from Europe as you content, but from Wuhan. The first  documented case in US was from a guy in Washington who just got back from Wuhan ,China
• SARS originated in Wuhan, China in 2004 (I think thats the year, not sure though)

 

Now if by "they" you meant white europeans, then yeah "theyve been doing this shit for a long time...". -DD

I understand what youre saying in terms of smallpox but the common cold ? Where is your evidence that that was transmitted from White settlers to the Indians and also, that it devsatated them.  Likely it was present long before , I would imagine, right? 

Never heard that

• Additionally, there is MORE evidence that Plague (i.e., black death) ALSO originated in Wuhan, China , although it is not proven.

So, it appears that They HAVE been doing this shit for a very  long time IMHO

 

 

 

 

I did not state originated from Europe, I said came to America via Europe.  China to Europe to America. I stand by everything I posted, and in fact under stated:

Numerous infectious diseases were carried to the Americas, including smallpox, bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, the common cold, diphtheria, influenza, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, sexually transmitted diseases (with the possible exception of syphilis), typhoid, typhus, tuberculosis (although a form of this infection existed in South America prior to contact),[5] and pertussis.[6][7][8] Each of these resulted in sweeping epidemics among Native Americans, who suffered disability, illness, and a high mortality rate.[8] The Europeans infected with such diseases typically carried them in a dormant state, were actively infected but asymptomatic, or had only mild symptoms, because Europe had been subject for centuries to a selective process by these diseases. The explorers and colonists often unknowingly passed the diseases to natives, where they became epidemics.[4] The introduction of African slaves and the use of commercial trade routes contributed to the spread of disease.[9][10]

Consider this, throughout history white Europeans travel the globe acquiring and transmitting infections and it is the fault of the place they went to?

[Elmo]

48 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

I did not state originated from Europe, I said came to America via Europe.  China to Europe to America. I stand by everything I posted, and in fact under stated:

Patient zero in the US did come back from Wuhan but it was contained.  Patient zero in the East Coast came from Europe via Israel and made a pit stop in Miami.  That one spread like wildfire.

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Elmo said:

Wow.  SARS originated in Guangdong, China.

The 1st wave of the Spanish flu never even reach China.

And the black plague?  Seriously?  I also heard the snake that told Eve to eat the apple also came from Wuhan.

Ill have to verify what you say about SARS; I believe it was Wuhan but even if not, still China according to you, right ? 

In reference to Spanish Flu, the theory is that it originated from Chinese workers present in Europe at the time. Again, hasnt been completely verified ( who can know for sure anyway?) but, thats whats believed to be the case.   Apparently, your contention (that Spanish flu never reached China in first wave ) is incorrect; or at least, it appears to be according to this article:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/#:~:text=In the new report%2C Humphries finds archival evidence,(Related%3A Here's what coronavirus does to the body.)

Finally , in ref to  the Black Plague:  Yes, seriously, from China

As I clearly stated in my original post, this is not proven, its just a theory.  Sorry if that upsets you , but based on the apparent historical pattern here , I'm a firm believer in the old adage "where theres smoke theres fire"; so,  if you heard that the snake from the old Testament also came from Wuhan, I'd be inclined to be believe it!! lol

[Northcountryman]

59 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

I did not state originated from Europe, I said came to America via Europe.  China to Europe to America. I stand by everything I posted, and in fact under stated:

Numerous infectious diseases were carried to the Americas, including smallpox, bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, the common cold, diphtheria, influenza, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, sexually transmitted diseases (with the possible exception of syphilis), typhoid, typhus, tuberculosis (although a form of this infection existed in South America prior to contact),[5] and pertussis.[6][7][8] Each of these resulted in sweeping epidemics among Native Americans, who suffered disability, illness, and a high mortality rate.[8] The Europeans infected with such diseases typically carried them in a dormant state, were actively infected but asymptomatic, or had only mild symptoms, because Europe had been subject for centuries to a selective process by these diseases. The explorers and colonists often unknowingly passed the diseases to natives, where they became epidemics.[4] The introduction of African slaves and the use of commercial trade routes contributed to the spread of disease.[9][10]

Consider this, throughout history white Europeans travel the globe acquiring and transmitting infections and it is the fault of the place they went to?

No, it is the fault of the place in which it originated if the same practices which led to its development and manifestation are continued . China has known ,for quite some time now, about the correlation between the wet markets and species-jumping viral diseases, yet they persist in conducting and holding such markets...it is now time to finally stop IMHO 

[Elmo]

13 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Ill have to verify what you say about SARS; I believe it was Wuhan but even if not, still China according to you, right ? 

In reference to Spanish Flu, the theory is that it originated from Chinese workers present in Europe at the time. Again, hasnt been completely verified ( who can know for sure anyway?) but, thats whats believed to be the case.   Apparently, your contention (that Spanish flu never reached China in first wave ) is incorrect; or at least, it appears to be according to this article:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/#:~:text=In the new report%2C Humphries finds archival evidence,(Related%3A Here's what coronavirus does to the body.)

Finally , in ref to  the Black Plague:  Yes, seriously, from China

As I clearly stated in my original post, this is not proven, its just a theory.  Sorry if that upsets you , but based on the apparent historical pattern here , I'm a firm believer in the old adage "where theres smoke theres fire"; so,  if you heard that the snake from the old Testament also came from Wuhan, I'd be inclined to be believe it!! lol

That's based on a small unidentified outbreak a year before the Spanish flu hit and the fact that China had a lower mortality rate when they got hit.  And yes, they didn't get hit until the 2nd wave.

But in the theory of "if there's smoke, there's fire" then what do you make of this news story?  2 assisted living homes hit with a "strange respiratory illness" that was fatal to the old and physically compromised and within 7km of a US military base?  This was in July of 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-gzm_sOM0&fbclid=IwAR3FyEM0xmGOXhiVDi6sG2j7X0t_nzFGbHItScg8R28rtxtvOEYvaNRrHSc

[Elmo]

39 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

As I clearly stated in my original post, this is not proven, its just a theory.  Sorry if that upsets you , but based on the apparent historical pattern here , I'm a firm believer in the old adage "where theres smoke theres fire"; so,  if you heard that the snake from the old Testament also came from Wuhan, I'd be inclined to be believe it!! lol

And not upset at all.  Just find it funny that people are always hammering news and articles as being fake new but the moment it fits their narrative then it has to be real.  And by the way...I do this to both sides of the fence.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Elmo

[Northcountryman]

What narrative do I have and what side am I on? I am on noones side, my friend , except for those who are in search of the Truth.  And , like i said  , the Spanish flu thing-- as is the the Plague--is  just a theory.  Having said that, if you ask me if I believe it?  Yup!!  I will read your article, though , thanks for the info...

[Northcountryman]

Sorry, yutube clip, not article.  I did check it out, but doesnt make sense.  This take splace in is July ,2019.  Knowing what we know about the high transmissibility of COVID-19, IF this was indeed the same virus, would have spread like wildfire immediately in US, which it did not do till aroun  march of 2020 after tracing exposures back to those travelling to/from Wuhan, China.  Also, entire world would have enacted travel bans to/from US which they did not do; they did, however, do that in regards to China. 

 

Also, I just trhought of something from your previous post.  You say that you get tired of people hammering news and articles as fake , yet when it fits their "narrative" then, its suddenly real.  Isnt that kind of what you just kind of did with the Spanish Flu article I posted? I ididnt write the article; I read it; moreover, its from (I think) a fairly reputable and non-poltitical source, National Geographic.  Yes, you discount everything that they say and dismiss because it doesnt fit "your narrative" right?  It doesnt matter if China missed the first wave , why are you arguing that? The point is, they had immunity conferred to them due to previous exposure from Spanish flu;  Therefore, looks like maybe it originated there!!

As this article demonstrates, this is only a theory--why then are you so quick to dismiss it?

[Elmo]

Because the article posted, the person stated that he is basing it purely on the fact that there was a small outbreak in 1917 that they couldn't identify and that the mortality rate is lower in China.  The news report was a small outbreak in the US that they couldn't identify and guess what?  Which country has a low mortality rate?  I'm just saying if one is a theory, why can't the other also be?  Assisted living residents don't generally travel around much.

PS: The CDC/American Red Cross report by the way, is not a theory.

[Elmo]

My liberal friends think I'm conservative because I'm always countering them.  My conservative friends think I'm a liberal because I'm always countering them.  In my opinion, only listening to people who agree with you only enhances your belief good or bad.  Listening to counter points with an open mind helps you grow.  That's why I play the devil's advocate a lot.  That's why I mean by I do this with both sides of the fence.

[Northcountryman]

39 minutes ago, Elmo said:

Because the article posted, the person stated that he is basing it purely on the fact that there was a small outbreak in 1917 that they couldn't identify and that the mortality rate is lower in China.  The news report was a small outbreak in the US that they couldn't identify and guess what?  Which country has a low mortality rate?  I'm just saying if one is a theory, why can't the other also be?  Assisted living residents don't generally travel around much.

PS: The CDC/American Red Cross report by the way, is not a theory.

It also, seems to be veery well supported by his peers accdording to the article, wouldnt you say? Make sense to me