Taxpayers bailing out private union pensions???

[Grouse]

How in the hell do Democrats get away with this crap?  They are bailing out private union pension funds with taxpayer money in this latest "Covid-19" relief bill.  It's unconstitutional!  

This has nothing to do with the virus or the economic damage Democrats have done to the economy with their draconian lock downs.  These union pension funds were broke years ago, and nothing in this bill makes them change anything to prevent it from happening again.  How is it any taxpaying American votes for any of these leftist spendthrifts that are dead set on bankrupting this country and causing a total economic collapse?

"Just to show you how bad this bill is," said Republican Tennessee Senator Bill Hagerty last week, "there's more money in this to bail out union pension funds than all the money combined for vaccine distribution and testing."

As even the leftist spendthrifts at The New York Times admit, this taxpayer-funded giveaway to the Democrat-beholden unions "has nothing to do with the pandemic." Moreover, they report, the failure "predated the pandemic and is a result of fading unions, serial bankruptcies and the misplaced hope that investment income would foot most of the bill so that employers and workers wouldn't have to."

As the Times continues, "Both the House and Senate stimulus measures would give the weakest plans enough money to pay hundreds of thousands of retirees — a number that will grow in the future — their full pensions for the next 30 years. The provision does not require the plans to pay back the bailout, freeze accruals or to end the practices that led to their current distress, which means their troubles could recur. Nor does it explain what will happen when the taxpayer money runs out 30 years from now."

 

 

[Grouse]

How Congress Exacerbated Union Pension Crisis Under Guise of Coronavirus Relief

By 2017, years before the COVID-19 pandemic, these plans had already accumulated $673 billion in unfunded liabilities, spread across almost 1,400 plans and 10.8 million workers and retirees. Many of those plans have continued to deteriorate in value even as the S&P 500 has increased more than 50%.

If Congress bails out private-sector unions, will it then say “no” to retired teachers and firefighters, who are part of state and local governments’ $4 trillion to $5 trillion in pension shortfalls?

 

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/03/12/how-congress-exacerbated-union-pension-crisis-under-guise-of-coronavirus-relief/?utm_source=TDS_Email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CapitolBell&utm_content=httpswwwdailysignalcom20210312howcongressexacerbatedunionpensioncrisisunderguiseofcoronavirusreliefutmsourcerssutmmediumrssutmcampaignhowcongressexacerbatedunionpensioncrisisunderguiseofcoronavirusrelief&mkt_tok=ODI0LU1IVC0zMDQAAAF7xzt0mIqNG_KutIC0Y16d-4pLw9mNAslfQv5A1H7bGInEFp1NcewsTBjZqFVbbQgacL6is2lIi2HtAGt2eLMonXdSAG_EPHtutE-ovMLjN9mqeRM

[farmer 52]

Well first  off I am a retired teamster.I have mixed feelings about the whole thing,but I am glad they included this in the bill.My thoughts are that if they can justify the other 80-90% of pork in this debacle,I cant feel bad taking my share also.For the teamster pensions this started was started approx.25-30 years ago when the govt. decided the funds were over-funded and if the teamsters didnt change something they were going to step in and take what they considered the overage in the funds.So this started the early retirement of many to lighten up the fund.I believe at one point it was 65 age/with 30 years,then it dropped eventually to no age/30 years,and the flood gates opened.I had numerous friends that went at 48 with 30 yrs ,I was 53 when i went.

I believe it was about 4-5 years ago,they took 29% of my pension away,not a good thing to happen when your 60+ years old.So beat me up if you must but Iwill still be smiling when they make my pension whole again.

And as far as govt. state,municipal workers,when their pensions plans drop to a certain number all they do is raise yours and mine taxes to cover it.

[Grouse]

I see what your mindset is and understand your issue.  Regardless of the motivation, it's all unconstitutional, none of it can be justified and citizens of this land, as far ahead as our great grandchildren, should not be saddled with the debt created by fiscal mismanagement of private unions.

If people understood the real nightmare of total economic collapse, they wouldn't think the govt has unlimited revenue to work with.  Life will be very tough under Martial Law.

[farmer 52]

How about total mismanagement of the government in whole.It seems lately most all that the government does is unconstitutional.I don't believe there is fiscal management by many anymore.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, farmer 52 said:

How about total mismanagement of the government in whole.It seems lately most all that the government does is unconstitutional.I don't believe there is fiscal management by many anymore.

I won't argue with that.  But they get away with it by buying votes from everyone with our own tax dollars.  The electorate in this land is truly naive. 

[farmer 52]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I won't argue with that.  But they get away with it by buying votes from everyone with our own tax dollars.  The electorate in this land is truly naive. 

Naive would be a understatement.As many sportsman and gun owners that won't get off their best intentions and vote.

More stupid and lazy

[9jNYstarkOH]

The drivers at my job are also happy with their little slice of socialism. But  say they all vote republican as they keep send in their dues to fund Democrats campaigns. With Jimmy. Hoffa jr at the helm most likely the money will come up missing again “due to bad management”.

[GreeneHunter]

Something that came up years ago was " Beck Rights " " CWA vs Beck "and the gist of that was that a Union Member had no say whatsoever on where his/her Dues were going as far as choice of Political Action Committee ! It was proven in Federal Court that 79 % of Dues were being sent to PAC's , and the Union Member had zero choice which one their money goes to . The concept being that Union Leaders were far smarter than plain ole Dues Payers . Meanwhile just like Congress members the Union Leaders for the most part had not actually worked in years and were living off Dues !  The Democrats are doing nothing more than Buying Votes ... Plain and Simple !

[farmer 52]

For me I will say that even by benefiting from the pension fix,it wont change my voting habits or thoughts towards the leftist,communist,socialist democrat party.

[eaglemountainman]

Don't paint all unions with the same broad brush.

There are quite a few that have healthy, and growing, pension funds.

Mine is one. According to the yearly statements I get from my international as well as local unions, they're doing quite well.

[GreeneHunter]

5 hours ago, eaglemountainman said:

Don't paint all unions with the same broad brush.

There are quite a few that have healthy, and growing, pension funds.

Mine is one. According to the yearly statements I get from my international as well as local unions, they're doing quite well.

Good too hear ! The thing that gets me is when the Union Leaders have been in office for way too long and haven't actually turned a Wrech / Screwdriver / Driven A Truck in years and have become like Congressmen and come to think they rule and the Dues Payer is just a Peon - kinda whats happening in Wash DC .   Believe it or not Term Limits for Union Leaders is not such a bad idea but they just will not give up the reins !

[Nomad]

8 hours ago, GreeneHunter said:

Something that came up years ago was " Beck Rights " " CWA vs Beck "and the gist of that was that a Union Member had no say whatsoever on where his/her Dues were going as far as choice of Political Action Committee ! It was proven in Federal Court that 79 % of Dues were being sent to PAC's , and the Union Member had zero choice which one their money goes to . The concept being that Union Leaders were far smarter than plain ole Dues Payers . Meanwhile just like Congress members the Union Leaders for the most part had not actually worked in years and were living off Dues !  The Democrats are doing nothing more than Buying Votes ... Plain and Simple !

My understanding of Beck is that they ruled in his favor, and only the part of dues needed for collective bargaining , can be made mandatory  ,all others are voluntary .

https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/beck

That sure jives with my Union experience. Most of my career we had no PAC , then at one meeting the Pres. said that when he  contacts our state and local politicians, they never return his calls . So he asked for voluntary contributions of $2 per pay period (26 ) so a grand total of $52 a year  to start a PAC, which most guys I know gladly signed up for .

Also despite the Janus ruling , 100% of our guys are Union members .

My pension fund is also last I knew 108 % funded .

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 3/10/2021 at 4:28 PM, Grouse said:

How in the hell do Democrats get away with this crap?  They are bailing out private union pension funds with taxpayer money in this latest "Covid-19" relief bill.  It's unconstitutional!  

This has nothing to do with the virus or the economic damage Democrats have done to the economy with their draconian lock downs.  These union pension funds were broke years ago, and nothing in this bill makes them change anything to prevent it from happening again.  How is it any taxpaying American votes for any of these leftist spendthrifts that are dead set on bankrupting this country and causing a total economic collapse?

"Just to show you how bad this bill is," said Republican Tennessee Senator Bill Hagerty last week, "there's more money in this to bail out union pension funds than all the money combined for vaccine distribution and testing."

As even the leftist spendthrifts at The New York Times admit, this taxpayer-funded giveaway to the Democrat-beholden unions "has nothing to do with the pandemic." Moreover, they report, the failure "predated the pandemic and is a result of fading unions, serial bankruptcies and the misplaced hope that investment income would foot most of the bill so that employers and workers wouldn't have to."

As the Times continues, "Both the House and Senate stimulus measures would give the weakest plans enough money to pay hundreds of thousands of retirees — a number that will grow in the future — their full pensions for the next 30 years. The provision does not require the plans to pay back the bailout, freeze accruals or to end the practices that led to their current distress, which means their troubles could recur. Nor does it explain what will happen when the taxpayer money runs out 30 years from now."

 

 

I take it your not a union member and don't enjoy the benefits of a union pension.

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 3/13/2021 at 7:15 AM, Grouse said:

I see what your mindset is and understand your issue.  Regardless of the motivation, it's all unconstitutional, none of it can be justified and citizens of this land, as far ahead as our great grandchildren, should not be saddled with the debt created by fiscal mismanagement of private unions.

If people understood the real nightmare of total economic collapse, they wouldn't think the govt has unlimited revenue to work with.  Life will be very tough under Martial Law.

What about Trump's trillions in tax giveaways to big oil and other corporations who've been profiting pretty nicely off the backs of working Americans since 2010. The same corporations that do much of their business worldwide in countries that would benefit from our failure like Russia? The retired union folk I know and live in my neighborhood spend their money right here supporting local business like car dealerships, lawn care,pizza places, home improvement ect. Heck here in upstate NY they're the only ones keeping our economies alive

[Grouse]

Deflection isn't addressing the issue.  Please explain how unions lost your pension funds and why they would be justified expecting taxpayers to bail them out.

[Just Lucky]

I am glad I am not in a union. I like to be paid for effort, and ability,  not just seniority. 

[ApexerER]

39 minutes ago, Just Lucky said:

I am glad I am not in a union. I like to be paid for effort, and ability,  not just seniority. 

I have never been in a union so maybe i am talking out my rear end but to me they are completely outdated and only protect those that do the least.  With Osha and every other government agency looking out for workers these days. There really isn't an unsafe work place anymore which is why unions were formed....

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, ApexerER said:

I have never been in a union so maybe i am talking out my rear end but to me they are completely outdated and only protect those that do the least.  With Osha and every other government agency looking out for workers these days. There really isn't an unsafe work place anymore which is why unions were formed....

My Grandfather used to say that unions are a necessary evil—and  I am a form believer in that Point of view . The unions — like many man made institutions — were conceived entirely  with good Intentions during a time when workers had no protections; however , with time , they became corrupt , too demanding and WAY  too greedy . That all can be reformed and in many ways , has recently as the pendulum has clearly swung in the other direction against the unions  . I shudder to think of what would happen though , if unions were to fade away completely — would we go back to the good old days of hard core crony capitalism ?? Hope that doesn’t happen!! 

[Grouse]

I'm concerned about their political contributions and huge voting block that tends to support leftist politicians at the expense of taxpaying Americans.

If they used membership dues to support their members and properly managed their pensions, they wouldn't be letting politicians buy their votes, losing pension money and trying to get taxpayers to bail them out when leftists get elected.

Unions operate on Marxist ideology.  Maybe that is their major flaw from the start.

[farmer 52]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm concerned about their political contributions and huge voting block that tends to support leftist politicians at the expense of taxpaying Americans.

If they used membership dues to support their members and properly managed their pensions, they wouldn't be letting politicians buy their votes, losing pension money and trying to get taxpayers to bail them out when leftists get elected.

Unions operate on Marxist ideology.  Maybe that is their major flaw from the start.

I would say the voting block is really not as big as you may think.As far as the trucking part of the teamsters,there are only a handful of union companies left.I would say that is part of the reason of the pensions plans are failing.

Non-union companies are now the majority in the trucking industry.Their pay and benefits are a direct benefit of the union carriers,which had a lot to do with their pay increasing,and being competitive with the union carriers or they would not be able to hire qualified drivers.

[Grouse]

If the US keeps adding to the National Debt, a total economic collapse is inevitable.

Here's where we are now.  Our debt to GDP ratio is almost 130%.  Never in history has it been so high.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[BowmanMike]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

If the US keeps adding to the National Debt, a total economic collapse is inevitable.

Here's where we are now.  Our debt to GDP ratio is almost 130%.  Never in history has it been so high.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Ah,here we go. How come i didnt hear you being concerned about that last year? Oh,because your party was in charge,thats right. This happens every time the democrats take over,all of a sudden the republicans are very concerned with the national debt. Not so much when they are in control.

It pains me to say it but i agree with you that the national debt is a problem. But so is the inconsistency of the focus of the republicans when it comes to that.

Edited March 21, 2021 by BowmanMike

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

Ah,here we go. How come i didnt hear you being concerned about that last year? Oh,because your party was in charge,thats right. This happens every time the democrats take over,all of a sudden the republicans are very concerned with the national debt. Not so much when they are in control.

It pains me to say it but i agree with you that the national debt is a problem. But so is the inconsistency of the focus of the republicans when it comes to that.

First, I'm not a Republican.  Second, I've been warning about the national debt and a total economic collapse for years.  The most recent massive increase happened in 2020 due to the scamdemic and spending by the govt is still out of control.  I really do not side with anyone in politics when it comes to spending.  I just point out it needs to be stopped.  

At least when Trump was spending he wasn't raising taxes on the working class to pay for it.  He tried to do it by revving up the economy to generate more tax revenue.  Democrats fought him at every turn and kept demanding tax increases, as if the citizens are some form of unlimited revenue for the government. 

Biden is proposing big tax increases, which tends to increase the cost of everything including interest rates.  Right now interests rates are low so the govt can actually pay the interest on the debt.  But if interest rates climb to 4 or 5%, it won't be able to without reaching deeply into every taxpayers pocket. 

It's a death spiral and the left seems to be trying to cause a massive economic collapse with crazy ideas about spending, like bailing out union pensions, forgiving student loans, reparations, etc.  People don't realize if it happens Martial Law will be instituted.  With leftists in control, that will amount to Soviet style tyranny.

I object to any type of government spending that it has no constitutional authority to do.  I also support massive cuts to programs that are merely buying votes with taxpayer dollars.