Do we have a Moral obligation to get the vaccine ?

[Northcountryman]

I read a post from ( get this ) Jennifer Anniston online this am and , surprisingly , it was fairly well written and got me thinking about the issues surrounding vaccines . To sum up her POV from the article , Anniston Contends that we , as American citizens , do , indeed Have an obligation to each other to get the vaccine in order to protect other citizens , lest we unwittingly infect them.  Moreover ,  This POV appears to be Echoed by a few of our left leaving/ liberal minded brethren  on here-Posts by VH , Knhrcke, Virgil As examples arguing this point ( and others ) exceedingly well IMHO. My question here is : do we , indeed , have an obligation ,not only to ourselves and our immediate family and loved ones , but to other citizens as well , in order to protect them from COVID to receive the vaccine ? Or , due to the inherent problems associated with its efficacy , in addition to the Vast unknowns ( i. e. Chronic long term issues ) that may afflict those that get it months or years down the road , are we actually better off not getting the vax , thereby protecting ourselves and others more by not ? Also, should it be viewed from the perspective that each individual ultimately, need decide for themselves what’s best for them and that we are responsible for our own health and safety exclusively and  not other citizens ? 
What do you think ? 

[ApexerER]

I think we are obligated to do what WE think is best for ourselves and our families. If you think the best thing is to get the vaccine, get it. If not, don't. Simple as that......Nobody should be making that decision for anyone....

[The_Real_TCIII]

If it stopped the spread you could make a case that its a moral issue but apparently it doesnt. I got it because I believe it greatly reduces the chance I'll get seriously ill or die so in that sense I guess I have a moral obligation to my family

[GreeneHunter]

Morally my wife and I received the two Pfizer shots to enable us a better chance of staying above ground .  Dumb as it sounds we would like to watch the Grandchildren grow up , but that's just us !

[Shoots100]

If we all worried about what effects our decisions(even menial ones) made concerning the safety for the rest of humanity or your community, the world would come to a standstill and die.

10's of Millions of people die yearly from diseases and other ailments and no one loses sleep over it, but Covid comes around and now were to throw caution to the wind and inject the masses, even adolescent teens, with an untested vaccine.

I should say mostly untested, as there are millions of guinea pigs running around with the vaccine or placebos in them.

Who knows what was injected.

An average of 9 million people starve to death each year around the world, year after year, decade after decade.

You would think that starvation would be eradicated and preventable in such a civilized world, yet it occurs and no one blinks an "obligated" eye.

People died in the beginning of the pandemic, because we didn't know how to fight it.

A lot of people died because they received the wrong treatment.

The medical profession learned quickly on how to fight it and the mortality rate is lower than influenza (Flu) numbers now.

We have way more knowledge of how to combat C19, then what the short and long term effects of the vaccines are.

I can link horror stories of what the vaccines have done to otherwise healthy people of all ages, yet those horror stories are deemed to be the price paid for saving humanity ?

You'd think different if it was your family member that paid that price.

I will get vaccinated, Only if the Vaccine study data confirms that it's safe for human's.

Until then, I will be the close quarter mask wearing recovering C19 middle aged white male with anti bodies part of the study.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

The vaccine only helps to keep you above ground if you get the virus.  It won't prevent you from giving the virus to ANYONE else. 

So how does the vaccine become a moral responsibility you must assume to keep you from giving the virus to others?

[GreeneHunter]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The vaccine only helps to keep you above ground if you get the virus.  It won't prevent you from giving the virus to ANYONE else. 

 

Stating the Obvious has never been too bright !

[Grouse]

No, sometimes it's just not too popular.

[Northcountryman]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The vaccine only helps to keep you above ground if you get the virus.  It won't prevent you from giving the virus to ANYONE else. 

So how does the vaccine become a moral responsibility you must assume to keep you from giving the virus to others?

VH asked someone earlier in another thread if they might have any misgivings About not getting vaxxed if they knew they had infected others, suggesting that getting it results in lower transmissibility- this means you’re “safer “ to be around ( I guess). 

[DirtTime]

Who cares what some Hollywood influencer says! Seriously!

 

As @ApexerER stated, just let people make their own damn decisions.

 

People need to stop with this bullshit of calling people leftists liberals ( and far worse ) that decide to get the vaccine, and stop insulting and cutting them down. It makes you look look like a selfish asshole that feels the only way of thinking is their way of thinking. Start minding your own MF'n business and let people do what they want to do and make their own decisions. No one, I MEAN NO ONE should belittle anyone who feels taking a precaution in life is what's best for them.

 

I'm over too many of the people on this site the past year and a half. Too many think they are the be all end all and if you don't agree with them you are this or that. Grow the f%$k up! You have no right to tell me or anyone else how to live life.

[Grouse]

I do not believe any scientific study says the vaccine makes anyone less likely to transmit the virus.  You can still carry the virus on your hands and in the breath you exhale.  You have only built up your immunity to it so you don't get as sick.  Plenty of vaccinated people test positive for the virus.  To think they don't spread it is to not understand viral transmission.

The vaccine is being pushed to keep unvaccinated people from getting sick.  To say they are more likely to spread the virus is baseless fear mongering and vilification of the unvaccinated.

[GreeneHunter]

16 minutes ago, DirtTime said:

Who cares what some Hollywood influencer says! Seriously!

 

As @ApexerER stated, just let people make their own damn decisions.

 

People need to stop with this bullshit of calling people leftists liberals ( and far worse ) that decide to get the vaccine, and stop insulting and cutting them down. It makes you look look like a selfish asshole that feels the only way of thinking is their way of thinking. Start minding your own MF'n business and let people do what they want to do and make their own decisions. No one, I MEAN NO ONE should belittle anyone who feels taking a precaution in life is what's best for them.

 

I'm over too many of the people on this site the past year and a half. Too many think they are the be all end all and if you don't agree with them you are this or that. Grow the f%$k up! You have no right to tell me or anyone else how to live life.

X2

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, DirtTime said:

People need to stop with this bullshit of calling people leftists liberals ( and far worse ) that decide to get the vaccine, and stop insulting and cutting them down. It makes you look look like a selfish asshole that feels the only way of thinking is their way of thinking. Start minding your own MF'n business and let people do what they want to do and make their own decisions. No one, I MEAN NO ONE should belittle anyone who feels taking a precaution in life is what's best for them.

I don't see people attacking anyone for getting the vaccine.  I see some of the vaccinated attacking the unvaccinated when they want to ostracize and vilify those who don't get the vaccine.  Look at all they are proposing to infringe on the liberties of the people who choose not to get the jab.

BTW:  There is a difference between a liberal and a leftist.  Liberals don't do that because they are OK with people living free.  Leftists are not liberal at all.  They want to tell everyone how they must live.

[Northcountryman]

21 minutes ago, DirtTime said:

Who cares what some Hollywood influencer says! Seriously!

 

As @ApexerER stated, just let people make their own damn decisions.

 

People need to stop with this bullshit of calling people leftists liberals ( and far worse ) that decide to get the vaccine, and stop insulting and cutting them down. It makes you look look like a selfish asshole that feels the only way of thinking is their way of thinking. Start minding your own MF'n business and let people do what they want to do and make their own decisions. No one, I MEAN NO ONE should belittle anyone who feels taking a precaution in life is what's best for them.

 

I'm over too many of the people on this site the past year and a half. Too many think they are the be all end all and if you don't agree with them you are this or that. Grow the f%$k up! You have no right to tell me or anyone else how to live life.

I agree with everything you said except which side you’re directing it towards - rather than say “leftist liberals “ for the group you purport to the one that’s being castigated for a choice , I think you mean “ conservative” . See posts from Chef and Gobbler Chaser for reference - they are not touting the “ conservative point of view “ and are quite condescending , judgemental and demeaning . With all due respect , I believe you’re criticism is misdirected  towards the wrong group my friend . 

[eaglemountainman]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I don't see people attacking anyone for getting the vaccine.  I see some of the vaccinated attacking the unvaccinated when they want to ostracize and vilify those who don't get the vaccine.  Look at all they are proposing to infringe on the liberties of the people who choose not to get the jab.

BTW:  There is a difference between a liberal and a leftist.  Liberals don't do that because they are OK with people living free.  Leftists are not liberal at all.  They want to tell everyone how they must live.

I often don't agree with Grouse's point of view, but this is one time I absolutely do.

My wife is a liberal and we have differing opinions on a lot of social issues. But that's fine by both of us. We can have intelligent discussion, ( sometimes warmly debated), on a subject and, while not in agreement, can respect each other's position. Her sister, on the other hand, is a leftist. In her eyes, there is only one way to see an issue, and that is the lock step leftist way. Sometimes, I think she'd sooner see me dead than have me thinking alternative thoughts.

No, I don't believe there is a moral obligation to get the vaccine.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by eaglemountainman

[squirrelwhisperer]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:41 AM, Northcountryman said:

My question here is : do we , indeed , have an obligation ,not only to ourselves and our immediate family and loved ones , but to other citizens as well , in order to protect them from COVID to receive the vaccine ?

Absolutely not! I may decide to lean one way or the other but this is a personal choice and in no way does society have the right to tell me what I should or should not do. Hate to bring this up, again, but this is the exact same thing as the abortion debate. I personally, don't think we should be killing the unborn by the millions, but I don't feel that gives me the right to either ostracize or vilify those that have it done. When my wife was pregnant with our first, the hospital tried to convince us to terminate the pregnancy claiming my son would probably be severely autistic. She asked me what we should do. I told her we would love the baby no matter what. He is now 17, the picture of health and an honor student!! Imagine if we took their advise.

[Grouse]

This whole idea of demanding people comply with what the majority wants is collective ideology, which is a tyranny against the individual.

I can see a demand in the future that everyone give up vehicles powered by fossil fuels and drive only electric vehicles, because gas engines pollute everyone else's air.

This is a very dangerous road the left is trying to force us onto.

[steve863]

1 hour ago, squirrelwhisperer said:

Absolutely not! I may decide to lean one way or the other but this is a personal choice and in no way does society have the right to tell me what I should or should not do.

What about the guys who saved the world during WWII?   Was it just personal choice or did they think it was their moral obligation to go fight the enemy and save the world?  Lots of them never came back home and knew the possibilities before they left.  The odds were a hell of a lot worse than getting stuck with a little needle like some of you clowns are bitching and moaning about here.  It was a liberal democrat who called those boys to war, too.  I can only imagine how you pansies would act if it were you who got called up.

 

 

 

 

[WNYTRPR]

5 hours ago, DirtTime said:

Who cares what some Hollywood influencer says! Seriously!

 

As @ApexerER stated, just let people make their own damn decisions.

 

People need to stop with this bullshit of calling people leftists liberals ( and far worse ) that decide to get the vaccine, and stop insulting and cutting them down. It makes you look look like a selfish asshole that feels the only way of thinking is their way of thinking. Start minding your own MF'n business and let people do what they want to do and make their own decisions. No one, I MEAN NO ONE should belittle anyone who feels taking a precaution in life is what's best for them.

 

I'm over too many of the people on this site the past year and a half. Too many think they are the be all end all and if you don't agree with them you are this or that. Grow the f%$k up! You have no right to tell me or anyone else how to live life.

That’s a two way street ,last I seen ,it was the people who didn’t take the vaccine were selfish ,trump supporters ,losers ect .

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, steve863 said:

What about the guys who saved the world during WWII?   Was it just personal choice or did they think it was their moral obligation to go fight the enemy and save the world?  Lots of them never came back home and knew the possibilities before they left.  The odds were a hell of a lot worse than getting stuck with a little needle like some of you clowns are bitching and moaning about here.  It was a liberal democrat who called those boys to war, too.  I can only imagine how you pansies would act if it were you who got called up.

 

 

 

 

Steve , I’m not sure what you’re point is here , though : are you saying that they felt they had a moral obligation to go fight WWII and that is analogous to how citizens today should feel about getting the vaccine ? Not saying it’s wrong btw , just want clarification . 
 

Thanks 

[Shoots100]

2 hours ago, steve863 said:

What about the guys who saved the world during WWII?   Was it just personal choice or did they think it was their moral obligation to go fight the enemy and save the world?  Lots of them never came back home and knew the possibilities before they left.  The odds were a hell of a lot worse than getting stuck with a little needle like some of you clowns are bitching and moaning about here.  It was a liberal democrat who called those boys to war, too.  I can only imagine how you pansies would act if it were you who got called up.

 

 

 

 

A covid vaccine to serving in WWII to save the world comparison, finished with insults.

Your skills are growing by leaps and bounds.

I can guarantee you that if you told my WWII vet grandfathers that they were obligated to get a non approved/tested emergency covid shot to save humanity, they both would tell you where you could stick that needle.

They both wholeheartedly and willfully signed the dotted line, for the chance to put a bullet in Hitler or Emperor Hirohito's head.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Shoots100

[steve863]

36 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Steve , I’m not sure what you’re point is here , though : are you saying that they felt they had a moral obligation to go fight WWII and that is analogous to how citizens today should feel about getting the vaccine ? Not saying it’s wrong btw , just want clarification . 
 

Thanks 

 

No, COVID is not the situation that WWII was, yet if those men did what they had to do and with much greater risk to themselves I see absolutely NO reason for all the bitching and moaning that is going on constantly right now on this forum and this country over something as simple as a vaccination.

 

 

 

 

[steve863]

20 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

A covid vaccine to serving in WWII to save the world comparison, finished with insults.

Your skills are growing by leaps and bounds.

I can guarantee you that if you told my WWII vet grandfathers that they were obligated to get a non approved/tested emergency covid shot to save humanity, they both would tell you where you could stick that needle.

They both wholeheartedly and willfully signed the dotted line, for the chance to put a bullet in Hitler or Emperor Hirohito's head.

 

 

 

Yes, the insults will keep coming to a$$clown drama queens like you and Grouse.  Someone's got to tell you what you guys are since you don't realize it yourselves.

And if you think that the military won't stick into your a$$ whatever shot they damned well please, you know very little about being in the military.

 

 

 

[steve863]

45 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

stevie- you remind me of the Angry smaller Guy in the video below.

 As stated - be careful who you might run into in Person..

 Now lay off Grouse + Shoots100.

I'll come over to take karate lessons from you, Bill, since you are such a legend in Rockland County.  At least that's what you've been telling us daily for the last 7 years on this forum.  LOL

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

I'll come over to take karate lessons from you, Bill, since you are such a legend in Rockland County.  At least that's what you've been telling us daily for the last 7 years on this forum.  LOL

Steve , I may be persuaded that it is a moral obligation , but what worries me is the fact that it was rushed out so quickly , albeit out of necessity , of course . If there was solid proof that my not being vaccinated was a detriment to fellow citizens , I assure that I WOULD get the vaccine ASAP- but do you know that for a fact? I don’t think anyone does , that’s why I’m apprehensive .