Another top of the list for NY

[Trial153]

NYs season structure, and lengths suck. Western NY from 81 west could be a top shelf hunting state with the implementation of correct season structures and lengths.
The rest of NY would never be better then just average, however that would way better what it is now. 70% of our state wide buck take is 1.5 and 2.5 year old deer and we have an ignorant hunting culture that celebrates that as a good thing.

The only thing that is worse the NYS DEC miss management is the ignorance of our hunting culture that it supports. They are too narrow minded to understand that we can do better, and better would equate to more opportunity as well as quality.

[chrisw]

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings and I understand your frustration this year.  I have had a few years like that myself. There really is no reason to resort to personal attacks, like you and FSW have, but if you got to do it, I am thankful that I am the one who they are aimed at. 
 
You still got Late ML to get it done this year, and best of luck to you.  Hopefully, The Good Lord blesses you with an early Christmas present, that looks good up on a pedestal and tastes great.

I still have buck tags but haven't hunted since Thanksgiving day. If I truly only cared about trophies I wouldn't shoot does at all and I'd still be out there looking for a buck? You keep alluding to me having a terrible season when in reality it was probably my best, even without having tagged any antlers. I had a lot of opportunities to kill bucks and some pretty good ones that I let go, that in itself is a win for me. But again, you keep saying how sympathetic you are to me (which I highly doubt is sincere in the slightest) is just another backdoor way of you nipping at heels. I couldn't care less? I know that when you look for a specific age class buck you are going to go some years antler less and I'm ok with it. My goal is always to end up with 3 deer for venison and I did that quite easily this season so I have nothing to complain about...

Sent from my moto g fast using Tapatalk

[Four Seasons]

30 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

NYs season structure, and lengths suck. Western NY from 81 west could be a top shelf hunting state with the implementation of correct season structures and lengths.
The rest of NY would never be better then just average, however that would way better what it is now. 70% of our state wide buck take is 1.5 and 2.5 year old deer and we have an ignorant hunting culture that celebrates that as a good thing.

The only thing that is worse the NYS DEC miss management is the ignorance of our hunting culture that it supports. They are too narrow minded to understand that we can do better, and better would equate to more opportunity as well as quality.

Exactly. Seasons to long. Guns during the rut. Way to many tags and the biggest one is mandatory deer check stations. I know 2 guys killed 11 and wounded 3 on a little chunk of land up the road from us. Either not tagged or tagged with wives and kids tags. One would be shell shocked if the true number of illegal tags were being used were known. 

[ATbuckhunter]

I think NY is getting better and better every year. Its true there is a lot of pressure, but good hunters adapt to it. Most of our hunters only hunt a few weekends a year so for 2-3 days, we have high hunter numbers. Outside of that its not so bad. Id rather most places think NY is horrible for deer hunting if you ask me. We'll get less pressure that way

[Larry]

Hey four seasons If you knew these 2 guys killed that many, why didn’t you call the turn in poacher’s hot line. So, you let them get away with it. no one would have known you called. Still not to late to do the right thing. the number is 1844-332-3267. That’s if it’s really true.

[stubborn1VT]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

NYs season structure, and lengths suck. Western NY from 81 west could be a top shelf hunting state with the implementation of correct season structures and lengths.
The rest of NY would never be better then just average, however that would way better what it is now. 70% of our state wide buck take is 1.5 and 2.5 year old deer and we have an ignorant hunting culture that celebrates that as a good thing.

The only thing that is worse the NYS DEC miss management is the ignorance of our hunting culture that it supports. They are too narrow minded to understand that we can do better, and better would equate to more opportunity as well as quality.

Speaking of ignorant, how about letting other hunters decide what they want to shoot.  Speaking of narrow minded, how about realizing that there everyone has different goals and ideas of success.  What a way to think.  Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.  Take your pissing and moaning to a Midwestern state.  

[Trial153]

Speaking of ignorant, how about letting other hunters decide what they want to shoot.  Speaking of narrow minded, how about realizing that there everyone has different goals and ideas of success.  What a way to think.  Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.  Take your pissing and moaning to a Midwestern state.  

I already hunt more in the Midwest then NY. And quite frankly if you weren’t ignorant you’d realize that states with better management provide more opportunities for all hunters to chose what they want to harvest.

[stubborn1VT]

Just now, Trial153 said:

I already hunt more in the Midwest then NY. And quite frankly if you weren’t ignorant you’d realize that states with better management provide more opportunities for all hunters to chose what they want to harvest.

Boo hoo NY doesn't manage deer to help me reach my goals.  Other people are happy shooting 1.5 yo.  Attitudes like yours are worse than the antis.  Most of them are against hunting because they don't know better.  What's your excuse for shitting on thousands of other hunters? Like you have it all figured out.  Please.  Just another blowhard who tries to make himself feel good by looking down on others.  

[Trial153]

Boo hoo NY doesn't manage deer to help me reach my goals.  Other people are happy shooting 1.5 yo.  Attitudes like yours are worse than the antis.  Most of them are against hunting because they don't know better.  What's your excuse for shitting on thousands of other hunters? Like you have it all figured out.  Please.  Just another blowhard who tries to make himself feel good by looking down on others.  

I Don’t wait around for NY or anyone else to help me reach my goals, I am happy to go achieve them on my own. And you’d surprised what my goals are consider that I don’t announce them.

I often wonder how many of those “people happy to kill 1.5 year old bucks “ would pass the chance up of shooting a 3.5 or older buck and hold out for that 1.5 year …after all it their choice?


All you are doing is articulating the continued justification of bad management and as by product a culture that celebrates it. Thankfully more and more hunters have educated themselves, seen what is possible and don’t settle for status quo when it sucks.

[land 1]

Yup everyone is ignorant for having there own beliefs and enjoying the outdoors and hunting the way they want BUT you 153 you just know whats better for everyone else  ,,, and yes everyone i would guess would rather shoot a 3.5 over 1.5 but thats not what drives them to hunt and still can have plenty of satisfaction if they dont get the big rack or mature buck....

[Four Seasons]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Hey four seasons If you knew these 2 guys killed that many, why didn’t you call the turn in poacher’s hot line. So, you let them get away with it. no one would have known you called. Still not to late to do the right thing. the number is 1844-332-3267. That’s if it’s really true.

Negative!!  Know them well. Ny wants to make laws that work out for the idiots then I will stay out of it. Not worth the hassle it could become.   I will never risk myself, family or business to stick my nose into someone else’s business. 

[Four Seasons]

23 minutes ago, land 1 said:

Yup everyone is ignorant for having there own beliefs and enjoying the outdoors and hunting the way they want BUT you 153 you just know whats better for everyone else  ,,, and yes everyone i would guess would rather shoot a 3.5 over 1.5 but thats not what drives them to hunt and still can have plenty of satisfaction if they dont get the big rack or mature buck....

Bullshit. It is the hope of killing the 3.5 year old that drives hunters. Most can’t get it done or settle for less. Our resident Wolc shows that to the max. Always kills babies and now that an 80 inch buck walked in front of him he can’t stop showing pics of it and talking about it.   Usually the way it works out. 

[land 1]

gotta disagree yeah its a factor but going to camp with the guys seeing deer enjoying my land shooting some deer getting some meat for freezer honestly if what drives me is shooting a 3.5+ hell in maybe 30 plus yrs of hunting ive only got maybe 10  deer 3.5 and up loved that i got a nice one when it happens but wouldn't still be hunting if that was my ultimate drive and goal and wouldnt hunt areas where i know the chances are slim hell maybe im just a lil old school enjoy the outdoors enjoy the woods hunt hard and fair and be happy when you score and be happy for the next guy,,,, 

Edited December 12, 2021 by land 1

[wolc123]

17 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Bullshit. It is the hope of killing the 3.5 year old that drives hunters. Most can’t get it done or settle for less. Our resident Wolc shows that to the max. Always kills babies and now that an 80 inch buck walked in front of him he can’t stop showing pics of it and talking about it.   Usually the way it works out. 

Besides this year’s 3.5, which you have seen enough of from various angles, these are the bucks that I have killed since 2015.  Three other 3.5’s, two 2.5’s and a single, lonely 1.5, that showed up after Thanksgiving and took it up the poop shoot.  
 

I saved the lower jaw this year and that from another, nearly equal sized 3.5 year buck a couple years ago.  I also weighted that one, on a certified butchers scale, as a means of calibrating the PA chest girth edible meat chart to my local wny area.

I will probably save the lower jaws from now on, because it doesn’t take any extra time.   That way, if there is a dispute over aging I can send it in to deerage.com for settlement .  
 

I am ok with you being a pure antler guy and I know you will never change.  Similarly, you will never change me from being a pure meat guy.  The sole reason I pass younger antlered bucks, is to get more meat from the older ones.
 

 I see absolutely no point in letting them get older than 3.5, because that is when most free range deer carries the most meat in NY state.
 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by wolc123

[stubborn1VT]

16 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Bullshit. It is the hope of killing the 3.5 year old that drives hunters. Most can’t get it done or settle for less. Our resident Wolc shows that to the max. Always kills babies and now that an 80 inch buck walked in front of him he can’t stop showing pics of it and talking about it.   Usually the way it works out. 

Maybe for a very small percentage of hunters.  Everyone is different.  I fill my freezer every year on my family's farm and I'm happy to do it.  Has nothing to do with age class or racks.  I like to be out there.  I love venison.  I wouldn't pass up a giant buck, that isn't what drives me at all. 

[Four Seasons]

17 minutes ago, land 1 said:

gotta disagree yeah its a factor but going to camp with the guys seeing deer enjoying my land shooting some deer getting some meat for freezer honestly if what drives me is shooting a 3.5+ hell in maybe 30 plus yrs of hunting ive only got maybe 10  deer 3.5 and up loved that i got a nice one when it happens but wouldn't still be hunting if that was my ultimate drive and goal and wouldnt hunt areas where i know the chances are slim hell maybe im just a lil old school enjoy the outdoors enjoy the woods hunt hard and fair and be happy when you score and be happy for the next guy,,,, 

Exactly.  And like you said. 30 plus years you only harvested maybe 10. And better management plan would give you that great feeling of getting an older more mature deer. AND you would have the great harvests and great times that you have now. Win-Win!

[SteveB]

5 hours ago, wolc123 said:

 
 

The only reason that I save my buck tags, during the first half of the seasons for those over 1.5 years old, is because my family of four needs about 150 pounds of boneless meat for a year.  Antlerless deer are hard to come by where I am, and I have limited time for trimming out doe fat.  
 

 

1 - That is less than 3/4 lb of meat per WEEK for the 4 of you. 

2 - As someone else said, you could trim a herd of does in the time you spend telling everyone here they are wrong. Could easily get your family up to over a lb per week 

[Four Seasons]

15 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Maybe for a very small percentage of hunters.  Everyone is different.  I fill my freezer every year on my family's farm and I'm happy to do it.  Has nothing to do with age class or racks.  I like to be out there.  I love venison.  I wouldn't pass up a giant buck, that isn't what drives me at all. 

Spot on agree with you. But like the posts you put up the other day about trail cams.. if a guy could care less what he shoots and only goes for meat be it yearling buck/doe or older why keep track?  Why bother?  Your still out there and still getting your venison. That grand in trail cams could have bought a lot of other needed stuff I’m sure. And a better managed herd would still give you all you want in deer hunting and would also help all other hunters regardless of what their goal is. A better aged herd will still give those that want to shoot younger deer the chance and will also satisfy those that need the challenge of finding and hunting the real best, biggest and smartest deer in the woods.   Let’s be honest here. It’s not real tough to just kill any deer in today’s deer hunting. And if it is then they are not giving it much effort.   Like going to where they have a better chance of killing any deer. 

[Four Seasons]

30 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Besides this year’s 3.5, which you have seen enough of from various angles, these are the bucks that I have killed since 2015.  Three other 3.5’s, two 2.5’s and a single, lonely 1.5, that showed up after Thanksgiving and took it up the poop shoot.  
 

I saved the lower jaw this year and that from another, nearly equal sized 3.5 year buck a couple years ago.  I also weighted that one, on a certified butchers scale, as a means of calibrating the PA chest girth edible meat chart to my local wny area.

I will probably save the lower jaws from now on, because it doesn’t take any extra time.   That way, if there is a dispute over aging I can send it in to deerage.com for settlement .  
 

I am ok with you being a pure antler guy and I know you will never change.  Similarly, you will never change me from being a pure meat guy.  The sole reason I pass younger antlered bucks, is to get more meat from the older ones.
 

 I see absolutely no point in letting them get older than 3.5, because that is when most free range deer carries the most meat in NY state.
 

 

See your still clueless. The antlers come with the success of finding, Hunting and killing the smartest animal in the woods. I tried to get this buck right here and will be back at him all next week… Does this look like antlers to you?  This deer has never had a daylight picture taken.                             There is a big difference in someone that really hunts for a deer and someone who just shoots whatever they are lucky enough to have walk by. 

[Trial153]

The sad thing about all the “brown is down” “happy with any buck” “ can’t eat the horns” “shoot what makes you happy “ Types is how freaking intellectually dishonest you all are. Really it’s freaking laughable.

[stubborn1VT]

5 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Spot on agree with you. But like the posts you put up the other day about trail cams.. if a guy could care less what he shoots and only goes for meat be it yearling buck/doe or older why keep track?  Why bother?  Your still out there and still getting your venison. That grand in trail cams could have bought a lot of other needed stuff I’m sure. And a better managed herd would still give you all you want in deer hunting and would also help all other hunters regardless of what their goal is. A better aged herd will still give those that want to shoot younger deer the chance and will also satisfy those that need the challenge of finding and hunting the real best, biggest and smartest deer in the woods.   Let’s be honest here. It’s not real tough to just kill any deer in today’s deer hunting. And if it is then they are not giving it much effort.   Like going to where they have a better chance of killing any deer. 

I don't follow you, especially about the trail cameras.  I posted about 3 trail cameras that I bought for about $28 from Walmart.  I like to see what's out there: deer, bear, bobcats, turkey etc. 

I'm not against a well managed herd, just not at the expense of the people who are just happy to kill any deer.  I am against managing the herd for a small percentage who covet "trophy bucks".  That's the reason I'm totally against ARs.  Everyone has different ideas, amounts of time, budgets, energy and interest when it comes to deer hunting.  I don't like the idea of putting anyone down that wants to hunt ethically and legally.  I don't think we as hunters can afford to.  I will badmouth poachers, road hunters and the spray and pray crowd.  I just don't get the true trophy hunting mindset, the bragging and the scoffing at other people.  As I mentioned above, I think it does the antis job for them. 

[Four Seasons]

9 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

I don't follow you, especially about the trail cameras.  I posted about 3 trail cameras that I bought for about $28 from Walmart.  I like to see what's out there: deer, bear, bobcats, turkey etc. 

I'm not against a well managed herd, just not at the expense of the people who are just happy to kill any deer.  I am against managing the herd for a small percentage who covet "trophy bucks".  That's the reason I'm totally against ARs.  Everyone has different ideas, amounts of time, budgets, energy and interest when it comes to deer hunting.  I don't like the idea of putting anyone down that wants to hunt ethically and legally.  I don't think we as hunters can afford to.  I will badmouth poachers, road hunters and the spray and pray crowd.  I just don't get the true trophy hunting mindset, the bragging and the scoffing at other people.  As I mentioned above, I think it does the antis job for them. 

When you have a well balanced herd every hunter gets the same opportunity. When a herd I geared towards the larger buck do you not think there is not still little bucks for people to shoot if the want is there?  I’m not for Ar myself. I am in support of shorter seasons, no guns during the rut and mandatory deer check stations. Ny has no idea how many deer they have or that are killed every year. And haven’t for years. 

[Lucky118]

I like it when everyone shoots the small ones. It chases the big ones to me lol

[stubborn1VT]

1 minute ago, Four Seasons said:

When you have a well balanced herd every hunter gets the same opportunity. When a herd I geared towards the larger buck do you not think there is not still little bucks for people to shoot if the want is there?  I’m not for Ar myself. I am in support of shorter seasons, no guns during the rut and mandatory deer check stations. Ny has no idea how many deer they have or that are killed every year. And haven’t for years. 

I think a well balanced herd is a pie in the sky concept.  There's no way implement the necessary changes.  I think NY is a huge state and managing the herd between Long Island, the Adirondacks and WNY is a huge task.  In general, I think people love to complain.  I'm not against shorter seasons, but don't think it makes a difference.  In many areas there are just too many deer and shorter seasons won't help that.  Taking guns out of the rut also takes hunters out of the rut and that doesn't make sense for the future of hunting.  Mandatory check stations help.  You need data to make decisions.  As you said, NY doesn't have a clue about numbers.  I truly believe that "managing" natural resources is laughable.  Too many variables.  There isn't a way to micro manage every different area, so some general guidelines are the best that can be done.  You can't manage for winter temperatures, snowfall, rainfall, growing seasons, EHD, changing land use etc.  I think the states pretend to manage deer herds and hunters pretend that they could do it better.  I'm guilty of this too.  I'm mad as hell at VT for going to one buck.  In the end I'm not sure any of it matters that much.

[Four Seasons]

2 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

I think a well balanced herd is a pie in the sky concept.  There's no way implement the necessary changes.  I think NY is a huge state and managing the herd between Long Island, the Adirondacks and WNY is a huge task.  In general, I think people love to complain.  I'm not against shorter seasons, but don't think it makes a difference.  In many areas there are just too many deer and shorter seasons won't help that.  Taking guns out of the rut also takes hunters out of the rut and that doesn't make sense for the future of hunting.  Mandatory check stations help.  You need data to make decisions.  As you said, NY doesn't have a clue about numbers.  I truly believe that "managing" natural resources is laughable.  Too many variables.  There isn't a way to micro manage every different area, so some general guidelines are the best that can be done.  You can't manage for winter temperatures, snowfall, rainfall, growing seasons, EHD, changing land use etc.  I think the states pretend to manage deer herds and hunters pretend that they could do it better.  I'm guilty of this too.  I'm mad as hell at VT for going to one buck.  In the end I'm not sure any of it matters that much.

I think 1 buck per hunter your choice of season would be perfect.  There would still be a gun season. Just not during the rut. There could still be a bow/crossbow season and a muzzy season. These other states didn’t get the great deer hunting they have by accident.  Some hunters will bitch regardless of which way the state went. Just the nature of the beast. But Ny will never change because he’ll we have white shirts any tie’s that probably have never stepped in the woods calling our shots.  Hence we will always stay in the bottom of the top 10 deer hunting states.