Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[Doc]

You know, I am getting sick and tired of people spitting out that word "killing" when it come to hunters, as if there is something evil about performing the inevitable and traditional product of hunting. For those that simply want to watch deer go by season after season, save yourself some money and go buy a camera. As for myself, I'll not be apologizing for killing a deer (big, medium or small). Anybody has a problem with that ....... tough!

Doc

[wztirem]

+++++++++++++1

[gjs4]

You know, I am getting sick and tired of people spitting out that word "killing" when it come to hunters, as if there is something evil about performing the inevitable and traditional product of hunting. For those that simply want to watch deer go by season after season, save yourself some money and go buy a camera. As for myself, I'll not be apologizing for killing a deer (big, medium or small). Anybody has a problem with that ....... tough!

Doc

I love telling people how slaughter houses work if they make a comment about hunting being cruel. usually shuts them up.

[Fairgame]

Doc, We could never get along when it comes to this so its no use arguing.  I dont like when people think I'm bsing them when I tell it as it is in my area and how I hunt.  I should just go out with a camera most of the time and I do, but I'm sure you also like the fact that I pay $350 dollars for all tags every year even if I dont use them.    I would not stand behind AR's as much as I do if I didnt think it helped.  For me statistics on a website or an article about how it is not working in other states dosent change how I feel about it cause I could only talk from experience in hunting these areas.  From barely seeing any racked deer to seeing them consistently year after year after a couple of years these restrictions were implemented.  I know when you see me post under this topic that I'm going to get an argument from you but it still cant change my experiences on the outcome of AR's where I hunt. 

Good Luck on your arguement in this topic

[SteveB]

That's the problem Joe - your standards only gives you an animal to KILL every few years. It's the way you hunt and your goal. That's great - for YOU. The issue is you want the rules to change for everyone to model your choices and because you feel (whether you admit it or not) it will make it easier for you. Just because you are satified to eat tags most years does not make those who would like to kill deer regularly any less a hunter or person. Tearing someone else down does not mean you stand higher.

[erussell]

You know, I am getting sick and tired of people spitting out that word "killing" when it come to hunters, as if there is something evil about performing the inevitable and traditional product of hunting. For those that simply want to watch deer go by season after season, save yourself some money and go buy a camera. As for myself, I'll not be apologizing for killing a deer (big, medium or small). Anybody has a problem with that ....... tough!

Doc

Right on!! I prefer to kill my animals and harvest my garden.

[Fairgame]

I am wrong on the killing comment cause it is what we all do when we hunt.  The bsing thing is what got me going on page 15.  I do put in alot of time hunting NY, and for me I would shoot a doe anytime rather than kill a small buck.  Even if I dont have the opportunity to shoot a nice buck every year, it is nice to finally see them on a regular basis during the hunting season.

[Doc]

Doc, We could never get along when it comes to this so its no use arguing.  I dont like when people think I'm bsing them when I tell it as it is in my area and how I hunt.  I should just go out with a camera most of the time and I do, but I'm sure you also like the fact that I pay $350 dollars for all tags every year even if I dont use them.    I would not stand behind AR's as much as I do if I didnt think it helped.  For me statistics on a website or an article about how it is not working in other states dosent change how I feel about it cause I could only talk from experience in hunting these areas.  From barely seeing any racked deer to seeing them consistently year after year after a couple of years these restrictions were implemented.  I know when you see me post under this topic that I'm going to get an argument from you but it still cant change my experiences on the outcome of AR's where I hunt. 

Good Luck on your arguement in this topic

No argument from me. We covered it all in the old forum. Look, I don't care which side of this issue anyone comes down on as long as they keep an open mind. Frankly no one has convinced me on either side. I see dueling studies, each one just as convincing as the other. I hear eye-witness accounts, and they seem to be just as conflicted as the studies and reports. Does anyone have anymore credibilty than anyone else? ..... not to me. To me it is all a bunch of nonsense that everyone seems to heavily invest their emotions in.

As I have said many times, the whole issue is very, very, very far down on my list of priorities. When I see some of the more basic difficulties that this state and others have with wild game management, I find it very difficult to get all excited about a concept whose very nature is designed to cut opportunities and perhaps cost us the loss of even more hunters than is happening now. Especially something that is based on a science that even the so-called experts don't seem to agree on.

So if you are seeing some improvement in your local herd, I am happy for you. Over here in Western NY, we are seeing the same thing. Is it due to AR? ........ certainly not here it isn't. and in this chunk of the state we seem to have accomplished the same results without trying to legislate what people are mandated to consider a trophy in their own mind and their own hunting experiences.

Doc

[steve863]

  The bsing thing is what got me going on page 15. 

I'm sorry if that offended you.  I didn't mean to say that you are the one doing the BS'ing here, but I have been around hunting and hunters LONG enough to know that many of them are good talkers and tell good stories and consider themselves prime examples of good ethics, but in reality they are no better than anyone else.  I am far from perfect, but at least I won't ever hide that fact.  In the end we should all hunt anyway we want.  AR's in my opinion would limit this for many hunters out there, and that is why I will always be against it.

[biggamefish]

  By this poll I see that there are many more people for than against.  The problem is when it comes down the end of the year many people shoot the next deer to fill a tag.  I know people that say I don't shoot small ones then I see a pic at the end of the year and it is a spike.  Stick to your guns/bows.

  If you want AR's do it for yourself don't make everybody have to abid by your rules.  That is why we live in america (land of the free).  We should be able to decide what we want to do year to year.  If we need meat and a spike walks by first we as a hunting group should be able to harvest it if we want to.  Those small bucks can be such a bigger trophy than a 10 or 12 point deer or vise versa.  I just think that we should leave it up to each individual.

[gulbran84]

What about all those people including myself that not only hunt as a sport but hunt for food. There is already more deer to people ratio in the united states and having restrictions will only make this go higher. I think NY should let us hunt and stay out of our lives.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You know, I am getting sick and tired of people spitting out that word "killing" when it come to hunters, as if there is something evil about performing the inevitable and traditional product of hunting. For those that simply want to watch deer go by season after season, save yourself some money and go buy a camera. As for myself, I'll not be apologizing for killing a deer (big, medium or small). Anybody has a problem with that ....... tough!

Doc

Damn skippy Doc! I kill deer and will never apologize for it. If someone wants to call me a killer, then so be it.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

389 Members and only 85 votes????

[Campwildwood]

389 Members and only 85 votes? ???

Can we still vote? I may be able to get it to 50% for.  ;D

[Buckstopshere]

Right now on the poll there are 42 for AR and 44 who were not all for it...not what I would call a sweeping endorsement, especially after all the pro-AR propaganda, oversold rhetoric,  and grandiose promises.

[steve863]

What is interesting is that there seemed to be a lot more support for them on the old forum.  Some of the more vocal people either haven't found this site yet, or haven't wanted to get into the discussion here.  Maybe that PA report is keeping them quiet now?  LOL. What is also interesting is that in my WMU unit where they tried to implement AR's last year there were apparently 60% who were for them.  I have always called that figure BS, because NO one asked me or anyone I know who hunts in that area what our opinions were.  I know that some little known "sportsmans" clubs in my WMU were pushing AR's big time and maybe they fed the DEC these percentages that were allegedly for them.  Luckily the DEC decided against them.  They wanted a supermajority being for them before they implemented them.  I know the AR supporters squacked at this supermajority idea, but I have a hunch that the DEC did this because they knew that this 60% figure was FAR from accurate!  Hopefully they also wake up and get rid of them in the 4 units where they were implemented a few years ago.

[Doc]

That 60% number has to be correct. I'm sure they used the same statistical magic that they use on the rest of their stat manipulations. You know ..... go out and get a sampling of a few dozen and then call it statistically equivalent to the remainder ..... lol. The DEC statistical models have been audited by some statistics gurus and found to be perfect or at least so the public advertising goes.

They probably stopped into a gun club meeting and asked for a show of hands and came up with 60% for ARs.  ;D  Oh my gosh I am getting cynical these days!

Doc

[steve863]

In general statistics can be quite accurate.  The DEC is happy enough with the stats they get on the annual deer kills and such because whether we like it or not, all that matters to them is that deer get shot, and that's pretty much it.  Pin point accuracy on the actual totals isn't too important to them.  As far as the 60% statistic on hunters in favor of AR's , it most probably was a show of hands at some hunt club meeting.  I'm sure a few of those hunters lifted their hands while they were eating some hot dogs or sausages and the DEC representative doing the count mistook the dogs and sausages for raised fingers, thus the percentage was skewed even more!  LOL

[Larry]

Look weather your for AR’s or not the DEC right now is not going to do anything that will cause a lost of revenue.

[wztirem]

Look weather your for AR’s or not the DEC right now is not going to do anything that will cause a lost of revenue.

The DEC already shot themselves in the foot! Look at the sales of lifetime licenses prior to the increase. Their revenues are in decline! You are correct that the DEC will not do anything further (this year) that will cause a loss in revenue. It will be interesting to see what the revenue will be from license sales this year.

Next year, who knows. It should interesting!

[Tony Sorrento]

New Member ...soooooooo not sure if this is THE BEST thread to pop on .... but what the heck! 

I am FOR antler restrictions .. I like bigger racks and I am not against killing 3-4 doe for the freezer .... so bring them on!  ;D

[SteveB]

Welcome Tony - what part of the state do you hunt?

How will targeting the 60% of the 1.5 year old bucks that are 6 point or better in my units of 7j and 7h while letting the same age spikes go lead to bigger racks?

[Tony Sorrento]

Welcome Tony - what part of the state do you hunt?

How will targeting the 60% of the 1.5 year old bucks that are 6 point or better in my units of 7j and 7h while letting the same age spikes go lead to bigger racks?

Hey Steve! Thanks for the welcome! I believe we know each other from Bowhunting.com?? I am Preacher Tony

Anyway, I think it helps MOSTLY by mindset .... the 40% live .. leading to some bigger racks the next year ... which leads to guys that might not shoot just any buck they see cuz they wanna nail one of those big boys they saw last week ... yaknow?  :-\

[burmjohn]

The thing is you dont have to target the 6 ptrs if you don't want to.  Dont shoot anything then, but how will it hurt you by not shooting the spikes?

[SteveB]

That's me Tony.

I agree - it's a great VOLUNTARY program.