Is Putin emboldened by weak leadership and appeasement?

[Just Lucky]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

I’m not exactly sure what more you would like Biden to do here? I’m pretty sure doing more would result in WWIII


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Perhaps showing a strong united front before the invasion could have helped. Meeting with putin and compromise could have helped. But instead creepy joe hid in the basement. Leaderships proaction is as important as reaction. 

The last year, and the next 3 are the responsibility of Joe and his supporters, thanks.

[left field]

1 hour ago, Just Lucky said:

Perhaps showing a strong united front before the invasion could have helped. Meeting with putin and compromise could have helped. But instead creepy joe hid in the basement. Leaderships proaction is as important as reaction. 

The last year, and the next 3 are the responsibility of Joe and his supporters, thanks.

There was a fairly clear warning - invade Ukraine and face severe consequences. What Putin didn't count on was how quickly the world united against him. But what type of compromise were you hoping for? Don't go into Ukraine and we'll give you ... what?

This is an interview with Fiona Hill who is pretty much an expert on Putin as much as one can be an expert.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

 

This is fun. A Texan embedded and fighting with Russians

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/son-wealthy-businessman-foot-soldier-vladimir-putin-russia-hacking/

 

[Just Lucky]

57 minutes ago, left field said:

There was a fairly clear warning - invade Ukraine and face severe consequences. What Putin didn't count on was how quickly the world united against him. But what type of compromise were you hoping for? Don't go into Ukraine and we'll give you ... what?

This is an interview with Fiona Hill who is pretty much an expert on Putin as much as one can be an expert.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

 

This is fun. A Texan embedded and fighting with Russians

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/son-wealthy-businessman-foot-soldier-vladimir-putin-russia-hacking/

 

Guess we won't know what compromise could have been reached. It is too bad people have to suffer because of weak leadership. 

 

[Jeremy K]

Putin ordered residents to leave before the bombardment starts . Sounds like he's getting tired of trying to save infrastructure. 

[phantom]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:29 PM, Jeremy K said:

Why is it so hard for people to understand that voters who support trump just want less government influence in their life? It's disgusting seeing grown adults root for politicians to piss all over their rights. That's it in a nutshell.

Exactly gov needs  to just f 0ff 

[left field]

18 minutes ago, Just Lucky said:

Guess we won't know what compromise could have been reached. It is too bad people have to suffer because of weak leadership. 

I'm quite serious. What compromise would you have offered to stop Putin from attacking a new democracy, killing civilians and installing a puppet government? Half the country? More oil purchases? Cold hard cash? Trump pretty much offered to gut NATO and that wasn't enough. 

There is another word for that type of compromise. It will come to me in a minute.

 

[Robby]

Thats a lie. You enjoy lying. Mot even opinion, just a flat out lie.

Robby

[left field]

Which part? NATO? 

Meanwhile, in the land of The Hits Just Keep on Coming. Maybe Putin isn't responsible at all.

 

[Just Lucky]

12 minutes ago, left field said:

I'm quite serious. What compromise would you have offered to stop Putin from attacking a new democracy, killing civilians and installing a puppet government? Half the country? More oil purchases? Cold hard cash? Trump pretty much offered to gut NATO and that wasn't enough. 

There is another word for that type of compromise. It will come to me in a minute.

 

I too am serious. The build up at the border had been happening for months, and Biden ignored the situation until it was too late.

[left field]

We're just two laymen talking and we don't know a thing about how these situations work, but what do you base that on? How was it ignored? 

What is the strategy in dealing with a nuclear power intent on invading another country in 2022?

Do you de-escalate by offering some type of concession? 

Work something out diplomatically and quietly?

Sacrifice a new Democracy?

Threaten a military response? 

I really don't know. I hope Ukraine can resist this second phase of conflict until enough of an international coalition isolates Russia completely. At that point (unless he's truly insane), Putin leaves the infrastructure in shambles and claims he stopped the evil Ukrainian Nazis, negotiates a withdraw to ease sanctions and goes home.

[Just Lucky]

12 minutes ago, left field said:

We're just two laymen talking and we don't know a thing about how these situations work, but what do you base that on? How was it ignored? 

What is the strategy in dealing with a nuclear power intent on invading another country in 2022?

Do you de-escalate by offering some type of concession? 

Work something out diplomatically and quietly?

Sacrifice a new Democracy?

Threaten a military response? 

I really don't know. I hope Ukraine can resist this second phase of conflict until enough of an international coalition isolates Russia completely. At that point (unless he's truly insane), Putin leaves the infrastructure in shambles and claims he stopped the evil Ukrainian Nazis, negotiates a withdraw to ease sanctions and goes home.

It seems alot of propaganda is out there. One thing that has been said is Ukraine talks of joining NATO was a direct security threat to Russia.  Perhaps that could have been discussed. Perhaps the United States could have kept its word with the Ukrainians. Clinton promised to protect them from a Russian invasion in exchange for nukes.

 

There is alot I don't understand.  I think the reason Russia went into Ukraine was simply for oil. I think there are alot of politicians who have direct interests in Ukraine oil. 

I also think its aweful the average citizens of both countries will suffer because of this.

My great grandmother came over from Ukraine in the beginning of the 20th century when Russia invaded Ukraine.  Her and her brother came over as orphans.  She was 9 years. Sad how history keeps repeating itself.

 

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Robby said:

Thats a lie. You enjoy lying. Mot even opinion, just a flat out lie.

Robby

Not sure if its a lie as I think he may actually believe but clearly inaccurate.  Putin invaded NOW, rather than before becuase of the weak, inept incompetent person currently residing at 1600 PA ave., Wash, DC.  If Trump had been so deeferntial to him prior, he would have made his move while Trump was still in power-he did not.  He waited for weakness and he got it- plain and simple.

[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, left field said:

This is an interview with Fiona Hill who is pretty much an expert on Putin as much as one can be an expert.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

Who is VERY much an Anti-Trumper , a democrat operative and a shill; anything shes says comes from a position of extreme bias and thus, should be discounted IMHO.

[squirrelwhisperer]

2 hours ago, Just Lucky said:

Guess we won't know what compromise could have been reached. It is too bad people have to suffer because of weak leadership. 

 

Forget about the other side of the world for a minute...I'm a New Yorker and I suffer because of our weak leadership.

[left field]

37 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Who is VERY much an Anti-Trumper , a democrat operative and a shill; anything shes says comes from a position of extreme bias and thus, should be discounted IMHO.

That's a weird position to take - discount what someone is saying because you believe them to be biased which is a perception based on your own bias. That's like being at the nexus of the universe. At a certain point you have to put your partisan politics aside and listen to what experts are saying and she is an expert on Putin and Russia.

Which part of that interview do you disagree with?

[phantom]

3 hours ago, left field said:

We're just two laymen talking and we don't know a thing about how these situations work, but what do you base that on? How was it ignored? 

What is the strategy in dealing with a nuclear power intent on invading another country in 2022?

Do you de-escalate by offering some type of concession? 

Work something out diplomatically and quietly?

Sacrifice a new Democracy?

Threaten a military response? 

I really don't know. I hope Ukraine can resist this second phase of conflict until enough of an international coalition isolates Russia completely. At that point (unless he's truly insane), Putin leaves the infrastructure in shambles and claims he stopped the evil Ukrainian Nazis, negotiates a withdraw to ease sanctions and goes home

I mean putin already invaded 2 or 3 places before this when  biden was VP So he expected not much of a response from the old man looks like it's the other European countries that are getting worried now and are starting to step up with weapons to them . Ps we be in a better place if trump was still president  right now and I'm not kissing Trump's ass either he's got problems too but come on Biden is too old and doesn't know where he is . And the VP is not qualified for that job.

 

 

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, left field said:

That's a weird position to take - discount what someone is saying because you believe them to be biased which is a perception based on your own bias

Oh ,come on now. Lefty; you know better than that!! If someone is predisposed to adopt a particular position, their opinion is biased - you know that.  I researched her online and trust me, shes biased!!  Im sure I could dig up an expert or two on the opposing side that would say the opposite!!

[Splitear]

12 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Oh ,come on now. Lefty; you know better than that!! If someone is predisposed to adopt a particular position, their opinion is biased - you know that.  I researched her online and trust me, shes biased!!  Im sure I could dig up an expert or two on the opposing side that would say the opposite!!

Everyone has bias, that's just part of being human. Are you suggesting that anyone with bias be discounted, or only those who don't hold the same bias as you? It's a slippery slope. I try to listen to a little bit of everyone and piece my own perspective from there. Writing off anyone who you disagree with is a great way to get trapped into a bubble. 

I guess this is just my own biased opinion

Edited March 1, 2022 by Splitear

[Northcountryman]

4 minutes ago, Splitear said:

Everyone has bias, that's just part of being human. Are you suggesting that anyone with bias be discounted, or only those who don't hold the same bias as you? It's a slippery slope. I try to listen to a little bit of everyone and piece my own perspective from there. Writing off anyone who you disagree with is a great way to get trapped into a bubble. 

I guess this is just my own biased opinion

Correct, my friend; in truth, I believe weve discusssed this same basic issue in other threads and feel pretty much the same about this.  In truth,  intrinsic bias that were speaking of,  can be directed at EVERYONE , correct? My discounting what she has to say- is that coming from a place of bias cuz I'm pro Trump?  Yup!! But that doesnt mean Im wrong!! Likewise, is his posting that article and promulgating it as gospel beyond reproach also originating from a place of bias cuz he hates Trump?? Also yup!!  and that doesnt mean hes wrong either!!! So whos right?? Beats the hell outaa me!! lol

[Splitear]

Just now, Northcountryman said:

Correct, my friend; in truth, I believe weve discusssed this same basic issue in other threads and feel pretty much the same about this.  In truth,  intrinsic bias that were speaking of,  can be directed at EVERYONE , correct? My discounting what she has to say- is that coming from a place of bias cuz I'm pro Trump?  Yup!! But that doesnt mean Im wrong!! Likewise, is his posting that article and promulgating it as gospel beyond reproach also originating from a place of bias cuz he hates Trump?? Also yup!!  and that doesnt mean hes wrong either!!! So whos right?? Beats the hell outaa me!! lol

I redirect to that quote that I posted a while back “We’re all idiots…”  Please know that I mean know offense by that.
 

The most wrong I’ve ever been is when I was absolutely sure I was right. 

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:45 PM, SportsmanNH said:

 

Actually Chef , you are the one that is delusional , with Gobbly  Choker in a close second place right now . You know how much the New York Times and Trump didn't get along right ? Why would they write this article showing Trumps finances that shows Trump owes ZERO to Russian banks or Oligarchs ? He never did.  Only one reason , because its true. That bullshit was made up by Pelosi and Company .  Just like the dossier was proven to be bullshit .  

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/technology/no-there-isnt-evidence-that-trump-owes-money-to-russia.html

 

Seems I frosted your balls some

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 2/26/2022 at 9:05 PM, SportsmanNH said:

Yup  16 months to be exact . And to present , there STILL is no evidence of any Russian money tied to Trump. But on the other hand , we know Biden through his drug addict scumbag son is tied to money laundering through Ukraine under the last Ukraine government who was in bed with the Russian Oligarchs , dont we. Oh and lets not forget the 1.5 Billion Chinese money payoff to the Biden Bunch . 

Funny how guys like you bash media news for being fake and biased but then when you find an article that suits your narrative you put all your stock in it. LMAO. Just come out and say it. Your a Putin lover and enjoy seeing this huge super power killing people in a much smaller sovereign nation

[Northcountryman]

4 minutes ago, Gobbler Chaser said:

Your a Putin lover and enjoy seeing this huge super power killing people in a much smaller sovereign nation

A ridiculous accusation- for either side to hurl.  

[left field]

36 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Oh ,come on now. Lefty; you know better than that!! If someone is predisposed to adopt a particular position, their opinion is biased - you know that.  I researched her online and trust me, shes biased!!  Im sure I could dig up an expert or two on the opposing side that would say the opposite!!

The opposing side of what? That Putin is striving to bring glory back to Russia and reclaim past glory? 

Her article, and in fact her career, is not like the batshit crazy stuff that Grouse posts from the websites. Hill is a player in the international politics, a legitimate Russian expert, a hawk when it comes to Putin, and has served three presidents. Her opinions on Trump in that piece are reflective of what the world felt of Putin's manipulation of Trump. If you disagree with that, fine, but don't discount the history lesson and insight she provided on Putin.

This is a weird hill for you to die on.

[Northcountryman]

7 minutes ago, left field said:

The opposing side of what? That Putin is striving to bring glory back to Russia and reclaim past glory? 

Her article, and in fact her career, is not like the batshit crazy stuff that Grouse posts from the websites. Hill is a player in the international politics, a legitimate Russian expert, a hawk when it comes to Putin, and has served three presidents. Her opinions on Trump in that piece are reflective of what the world felt of Putin's manipulation of Trump. If you disagree with that, fine, but don't discount the history lesson and insight she provided on Putin.

This is a weird hill for you to die on.

See my comments above with Splitear regarding bias - Wierd hill to die on? Poetic but a bit overly dramatic.