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No. You are effectively competing with your employer, with him funding the effort. Most employers restrict the discount policy to "for own use," with that sometimes including family. Even where the policy is broader, acting as a reseller is not within the spirit of the policy.

IMO, no legal bearing. However, you original question was on ethics, not legality. Keep in mind that in NYS an employer can fire you at any time for "no reason." If I caught an employee doing this, I would consider it the same as theft and fire them immediately. If my employee needed a written policy to specifically spell out the unethical nature of this practice, I would not want them working for me.

Had a few more good pics of these bucks on a new camera set in the adjoining cloverfield...

Really great post Jennifer... even if it was just a summary. The only problem with what you've clearly pointed out is the blatant disregard for less preferred game species in the eyes of the typical special interest group of hunters with ONE goal in mind..... more deer killing opportunities. I don't think it's possible you're going to convince anyone here other than a select few that less deer and increased predators is a good thing. Deer hunters have tunnel vision....PERIOD, and I'm not claiming to be immune to it myself at times, but it's the truth. Invasives on all levels from insects, to critters, to vegetation, are constantly introducing themselves to our landscape due to the changing environment we've created, and most are going unnoticed until they become a problematic. We have to result to drastic measures to rid them from some areas entirely before the next invasive shows up to take care of the problem for us, creating a whole new set of problem we have no idea how to solve once again. As much as I hate to say it, I don't believe the modern day hunter is much of a "conservationist" anymore just because they dump loads of cash into their outdoor pursuits. Most will talk a good story, but ultimately, they're clueless to nature and real conservation. No one is really paying much attention to anything out there anymore beyond their favorite critter to kill. Sorry to break it to you all this way, but that's one of the biggest turn offs to hunting that turns a lot of folks away, myself included, or makes them give up a past time that was once a very enjoyable way to pass the fall and winter months to seek out other ways being more involved with the entire experience..., not just the hunt and kill.

This is true; in the long term things would swing back and forth then balance out. But the long term- in terms of ecology- is not within a human lifespan. Sometimes it is not within many generations. If we (admittedly, selfishly) want to conserve what we have and not let things get worse before they get better, management is important. Humanity has altered enough natural processes through habitat destruction and fragmentation, predator loss (I know we have yotes by the handful now, but trust me it's still a very different picture than predation 300 years ago), invasive species, logging of yesteryear, agriculture, etc. We're talking about a lot more than overpopulated deer eating ornamental flowers and gardens in the suburbs. Overbrowsing of native species is already a problem in some areas, and long-term will change the forest ecosystems for centuries (Not that we haven't already). Add in the invasive species that are quick to take over deer-disturbed areas (that deer seem to ignore) and our ecosystems change even more rapidly. In time... centuries, yes, it would balance. Animals would adapt or get wiped out. Same with plants (which are an important part of the conservation picture but are often overlooked). Earth has gone through countless cycles like this. Selfishly, I want it to slow down (for, we have artificially accelerated it!) so that more species have time to adapt, and that future generations of people can enjoy some of the things I do. Anyhow I don't want to debate much, just wanted to toss in some cents. Hunters were the original conservationists, and I think to continue being conservationists is important to our future, both as hunters as well as nature-lovers.

Wow, two great posts back to back! Quite refreshing in comparison to the usual dynamic duo VJP and Papist.

Hey everyone. Please take a minute to give this article a read. I just posted this tonight and it discusses my thoughts on hunting. How hunting is the future for all game animals, regardless of why you choose to hunt... http://www.adirondackbowhunters.com/2015/08/06/we-are-hunters-2/

Bottom line: it'd be a damned crappy way to treat an employer. Respect is always a two-way street.

One thing that this thread has really brought to light is just how much animosity there really is from gun hunters toward bow hunters. I always suspected that it was a much bigger problem than is generally acknowledged, but the comments on this thread plus a lot of other sources, is showing an increasing divide in the hunting community based on the use of a bow.

One of the most enjoyable threads on the web, no kidding. The years are going to pass sooo fast you won't believe it, filling every possible minute you can with your kids is great. They won't remember much of it at their young ages but PRINTING all the pics you can will preserve the memories for all of you. Some might call that "precious moments". Keep up the good work Dad!

Worked for me too, Bernie was at the bottom!!!! LOL!!

most bowhunters I know of take doe more so than bucks. you can't compare bowhunters with gun hunters as most people who hunt with a bow, hunt with a gun also. you can't even compare hunting implements, bow and gun, because the useage isn't the same. pretty sure anyone looking at this thread has figured that out. otherwise they're illiterate. they should've just made the regular tag a conditional regular season either sex tag based on WMU you're in, similar to how it's used in the late season. weekend warriors that run out of time to hunt or lose interest would then, as the opportunity presents itself, call it a season and take a doe. any false reporting and taking of a doe that way in close areas of neighboring units would be chalked up to not much of a loss. not like you cross the invisible WMU boundary and suddenly see a ton of deer. it's common sense that people will get upset if you restrict their harvest but immense if you take away chance completely. DEC should've known.

Is it really like shooting fish in a barrel in these places? There is a 30 acre parcel I have access to in 8f, and while there are deer there, they aren't walking past my stand every 30 min. If it's really that good on some of the other properties I wish someone would let me know I'd love to join the party. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think people here are completely forgetting why we are allowed to hunt at all. The ONLY reason we are allowed is to control the animal populations. Yeah, the game departments might cater to us hunters and let us get our kicks and continue our tradition just so they don't lose us to do the job they need us to do. They might give us special seasons, longer seasons, allow us to use different weapons, methods, etc., but the name of the game is population control. If there weren't enough animals out there to shoot, NONE of us, bowhunters, gun hunters, slingshot hunters, etc. would be allowed to hunt at all. I think people need to keep this in mind before they think their beloved bow season or any other season is being picked on. We are just a tool for the game departments, and if they didn't need us anymore none of us would be hunting, period. All the bitching in the world wouldn't change things either. So we should all consider ourselves lucky that there are animals out there to hunt and that we still can hunt eventhough things might be a little different than they used to be.

Don't kid yourself. The DEC has declared war on bowhunting. It is not just L.I. that this is happening.

With all the talk about excessive deer on Long Island and sharpshooters and nueturing,etc....The DEC comes up with a way to LESSEN hunter participation.....unbelievable....

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I found this shroom on a dead oak log in the woods this morning. It should be good fried up.

What hate..?? You're the only one mentioning hate... I just think everyone should go out and hunt and have a good time, without worrying so much about what the OTHER guy might be doing.. If you feel somebody hates you because you're a bowhunter, perhaps that's an issue you should discuss with your shrink, while you are addressing your superiority complex.

I hunt with a compound bow now, though in the past I used a recurve and a long bow. I used to hunt with a shotgun, but now I use a rifle. I used to hunt with my flintlock, but now it is a scoped inline. I shoot the first lone doe I see during archery to get one in the freezer. Then as the rut starts to heat up, I do not want to screw up the rut dynamics so I hold off on my second doe and take her during rifle season. Usually I get a buck during bow season. So that is two in the freezer. Then I shoot a buck during rifle and a doe during rifle...so that is my normal four...and then I hunt the muzzleloader/bow late season and if I am lucky have five deer in the freezer. We rarely buy beef and have enough venison to make lots of jerky for the kids and grandkids and loins for great cookouts.

is there a discount?

Would you cheat on your spouse/significant other with the 100 % chance they'd never find out ? And why is my print so small ?

The deer were on their feet this morning... I had this 4 year old that I call "Wannabe" stop by just prior to sun up. His tines are still bulby on the tips and it appears that he is trying to add small G4's... A short time later the rest of the boys showed up. I've been hoping to get pics of several of these bucks since first spotting them out in this field a month ago...

Very well written

No they are NOT...We get two dmps and an either sex...Not one bow hunter should be expected to burn their either sex on a doe the first 2 weeks...Many of us have more then one area of the state to hunt in and hunt other seasons..so we go for split tags...that leaves us with ONE doe tag to use that first 2wks. It isnot until NOV. 1 that we can go for any extra DMPs

I hunt bow and gun with equally ferocity and gusto. I do prefer the process of bow hunting slightly, but hiking through the Adirondacks with a rifle slung, is also exhilarating. I wonder what the spread is in terms of folk who shoot both vs one or the other? Are there numbers? I personally don't understand the animosity. It's all the one thing for me.

yes I was a clear.and food.plot but noticed as the crp fields were put back into production the drop on turkey numbers as the fallow field were prime nesting abd brooding habitat, I have developed a system.that looks at what will be lost vs gained now and some of my pots are now converted into bedding and fallow field or young aspen stands for grouse...

Lots of dads are happy for that law. The good dads and the bad ones. Gunna get a buck one way or the other they say!

Enjoy,,,, I wouldn't eat that thang as delicious as it looks! Only orange stuff going down my hatch are shaped like carrots,lol

Bold statement Wooly but I have to agree for the most part. We can be very self centered and selfish. But I see the flip side where many hunters are not and it shows in many of the new hunters that are brought into our world by thier mentors. The conservation these deer hunters do or try with food plots and trees and clearing the land tends to help all the animals. I understand we do tend to target deer, bucks especially but its in our blood. Do we all practice real conservation, probably not like you are expecting but those billions of dollars you want to dismiss goes to many of the parks and conservation in general. That will preserve much of what exists now for future generations. "Most will talk a good story, but ultimately, they're clueless to nature and real conservation." Not much I can argue about that quote.

I WILL be quiet for a change because I couldn't say anything better than what you two already have. There are hunters out there. They are a dime a dozen. Then there's Wooly who is in a class by himself!

I believe the youth hunters can shoot a deer of either sex

No ..... It is done with center fire rifles prior to Archery Season .

You're still missing the point. EVEN IF ALL BOWHUNTERS SHOT A DOE... statistically would that even matter? Consider too that all tags sold are not in areas where they issue DMP. So how many bowhunters need to shoot doe and how many doe to make the DEC happy? We cannot meet their goal when we do not know what it is. And still the biggest point to be made is why do you a gun hunter not hold some of the responsibility? And can we stop pretending harvesting a doe with a bow is as easy as putting your shoes on in the morning? Most bowhunters work their ass off and still might not even get an opportunity. Yes, some of us are blessed with good land but not all bowhunters do, and frankly arrowing any deer is an accomplishment when you consider what goes in to it.

WHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTT.... you gotta be chittin' me! First I've head of this. I think you're full of it!

See , the more I think on this the more spiteful I feel...They had so many other options available that they, I'm sure, just didn't bother considering. As Phade said they have NO #'s, no set goal...They could have made it a set number of deer...go fill those tags report them immediately and you can have what ever time left to hunt "either or" that first two weeks...They could have said ,well we set up special doe only in these areas but also for that two weeks you can bait in those areas only and BTW here are the number of tags we need filled. There doesn't seem to be any concerns from the DEC when sharp shooters bait the deer in. No CWD out breaks when municipalities allow this in their city limits. Just report them immediately . They could,Belo are you reading this, changed the time for those areas. Half hour before and after sunset during that two weeks. Yes I said that for The chances of me being shot in low light on my land by a arrow is MUCH less than by a bullet..remember I was nearly shot out of a 16ft tree stand 20 mins before season by a slug... Yes they had so so many options and they chose the absolute least productive.

There I just finished reading their statement. I can only say that the lying sacks of crap have outdone themselves in terms of destroying their credibility. I have just one very simple question that if properly answered would totally change my mind about this new rule. If they are not flat-out lying about the severity of the population situation and their super-concern about the excessive deer population, why did they chose to make their remedial actions apply only in the most inefficient season that they could find? Yeah, how seriously can you take their whining when they passed over actions during gun seasons and put the entire corrective management of deer populations on the backs of bowhunters, the least capable to have the needed impacts that they claim they need. It's a simple question that no one seems to want to answer.

Ha-ha-ha .... why don't we just see exactly how screwed up we can make things. The ideas keep getting screwier and screwier. However, I will say that such a thought could easily be something hatched by the DEC. That is kind of the way they are thinking these days. I know the gun hunters would be all for it. It seems that lately that season time slot is the envy of everybody in hunting these days and there is no shortage of people looking to push bowhunters out of it or glom onto it for themselves .... lol. And that thought always seems to come with the blessing of the DEC these days.

How high minded of some of you..."had bow hunters taken more doe you could have met your #'s" Well let me tell you I went out last year to shoot NOTHING BUT DOE to feed some families and had to resort to shooting a 6pt buck so one old man would : 1.) Have food for the winter 2.) Stop calling in desperation This was done during the last 2 wks of bow season and I had been out there nearly daily since Oct 1. I'm in a high density area and hunt legally I plant food every where for them on my 73 acres to compete with farm crops and many other bow hunters..Granted I'm also in a no doe hunting area in terms of land owners and a few resident and non resident trophy hunters.(during bow) I can not do any thing about that and I can not do any thing about the deer changing patterns or as they have been going nocturnal in the fall..It's funny how when doing things legally they don't just line up at a specific time at a specific place and wait for me to put an arrow through their lungs at close range Now I'm pretty sure I am not the only one that experiences rough seasons that was one...YET a guy a 1/2 mile down the road on 12 little acres ...surrounded by hunters and ag fields managed to drop 11 deer the first 2 wks of GUN season. hhhmmmmm You bet I'm not going to play along with a bad policy and I am not going to feel bad about it...Yes had I done things illegally and put out little piles of what ever or hunted before and after legal hours, I could have fed all those families and been very happy... So if they want those doe dead then they need to engage their brains and give us the tools to do so at the times that we can do the most good and NOT try to BLACK MAIL a specific hunting group...because the more I think about it and read dribble like what I'm referring to ..Well the more ticked off I get. This could end up being a no doe season at all for me...in my home range target area. They can just keep their extra doe tags... BTW " if your not part of the solution your part of the problem" Well all my hunting years I have always been part of the solution and happy to shoot any doe in range and passing many many a young buck. It is the DEC that became part of the problem when their shoot from the hip policy making took my ability to choose away on my land...but I can and have adapted and again will not be what I consider being black mailed. Go ahead threaten to put ML in bow and have it doe only...I can adapt and will continue to hunt else where until you wake up.

we missed this one, but got hit with the antler restrictions a few years ago........we make do with the cards we were dealt, I'm certainly not gonna sell the property/house and go where the grass is greener, we get enough dmp's to keep things moving along and soon enough the AR's are gonna pay off BIG!!! ahh, who am I kidding, I doubt it.....But, it's just deer hunting, not like I lost my job and need to go searching for a new one....

Yep- missed you in my reply. No change for us 9h'ers. Shoot 'em up, let 'em walk.... whatever your heart desires, we are free to hunt as we please the way we have been.

I have to admit, I was a little shocked to see my area in 9h go unaffected, but I think last years bad ass winter saved us with a mass doe/fawn winterkill. Or maybe the coyotes are doing a better job than I gave them credit for.... After seriously reading every post in this thread, I think some of you are having a hard time seeing past the deer under your stand no matter what the sex or how many are there at one time. Absolutely I think this was the wrong way to go about (start) getting things under control, but I'm sure this is only the beginning. Regardless of your preferred weapon of choice, changes needed to be made, and they started at the bottom of the totem pole. Eventually they will make their way to the top with new changes and EVERYONE will feel like they're being crapped on equally the same. Just wait and see....but don't be surprised when it these management plans roll over into gun seasons as well.

use it or lose it. that is exactly what it is. not only does this regulation remove some of our rights, it sends our age structure plummeting.

Sure I do...and I have allowed some whoppers to walk due to shot angle, speed and being in my range but on the limiting edge and not willing to risk it...See here it is...MY CHOICE just like it's my choice to say I refuse to participate in a flawed plan and sit in the woods to shoot doe only and being TOLD to hold off on a buck...when it just is not necessary period.

That is exactly the kind of hunter the DEC believes we all are. They continue the war on bowhunters and we have all been conditioned to obediently fall into lockstep and wait for the other shoe to drop. Yes they have reason to assume that everyone will simply take it. That is our history and they know it. But, maybe not all of us.

Ha-ha-ha .... just another page lifted out of the Cuomo Book of Dirty Tricks. Page 846: " Don't give them a chance to respond". That goes along with the other page in that same chapter of the Cuomo Book of Dirty Tricks that says, "Never mind all the fuss and furor, they all have a short attention span and will forget about it very quickly". They've learned well from their political leader. And why not, he appoints their Commissioner.

I will be 74 this hunting season .... There is no way in hell that I wouldn't be out there on October 1st after a doe .

Thanks for sharing the pics. If this doesn't jump start the season for people, don't know what will, LOL.

Same two deer last year / this year:

Nice two year old that appears to have jammed a stick or something into his right mainbeam... Back in January... I'm not sure who this tall tined 8-pt is. He looks to be a really nice two year old or possibly a three year old (I leaning towards three)...