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Taken Sunday....not bad for a first buck....very proud DAD........

What a hard season but finally got it done tonight! Doe down! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Best dinner ever. Went with my folks to celebrate their 70th wedding anniversary For you Erie County folk : Ripa's restaurant in Lancaster. It used to be a school when they first met 77 years ago. Mom was 12 and Pop was 14. It's now and has been a restaurant for many years. Both folks are in great health , wits about them, dad still drives and better than most. Love them so much When daughter was first born I was worried she may never get to know them as they were getting older. Daughter now 13 and they've all shared so much. I never met any of my grandparents as they passed before I was 1. Having a few tears shed right now. They bring so much joy to each other and everyone around. Love you Mom and Pop

Another deer down. She weighed #117.

The closest I ever got to any type of teaching position is NRA certified firearms instructor, and I don't know Papist from Adam. If you think we are the same person, put a large amount of cash on it and I'll split it with him to prove we aren't. I'll be 60 this month and currently consider my occupation "Independently Wealthy". When asked what I do these days, my answer is simply, "Whatever I want". Now, let's get back on topic here. You guys really have a very short attention span. Another reason this society is in a death spiral and headed for doom.

Thanks everyone, great advice and info! I went with the Ruger. Very lightweight. $329 on sale at Field and Stream.

Technically they poached it

Just go to the Mexican border and a whole lot more than 144 people crossed into the U.S. without i.d or any paper work. Thanks Mr. President.

It took me a while, but here's the 4 point I was talking about. I wasn't able to find the pictures of the buck at camp, but here's a pic of the skull.

Good thread here so far. FWIW..... Try some of the 165 gr's also and see if those are as accurate or better than 150's. Have taken close to 2 dozen critters in the 400-700 lb class; and bigger is better IMO.(Chambering would include; 270win,30-06,300RUM,375HH) A big fan of stiff contruction bullets and have had good results including shots from multiple angles. I get very few recoveries, I happen to like Swift Aframes and Trophy Bonded Bearclaws; but I did some volume culling on some smaller animals with a 243 and TSX's and they had excellent results. Loaded the 180grTSX in my 300 WBY and with now one animal down, I hope to use it for several hunts in the future; impressive stuff. I want 2 holes and be able to reach vitals from any position; and I want to break bones, preferably the offside leg if possible. Back to your first posts. I have two rifles I have 2 loads for (270win and 30-06), another with three ( 375 has a 300gr soft and 300gr solid to same point of impact and a Partition in 260gr with a second scope) . No big deal to work up 2 different loads if you want something softer for whitetails (and cheaper to plink with for chucks and targets). If grouping well, doesn't take more than 5 shots (or less) to get a scope zeroed, I use QD mounts and sometimes leave a second scope zeroed for another load. That extra scope always gets packed when travelling so with a few shots I could be back in business if required in case of a bad drop or accident to primary optic. Good luck on the hunt! Edit to add......Plenty of Elk have dropped to smaller calibers and the Partitions in all chamberings, good bullet. Most of the hunting I do involves a day rate and trophy fee; once that bullet leaves the muzzle, you own it. Positive blood trails, broken bones, and being able to possibly follow up very quickly make things just a little more stress free.

Apparently personal attacks are the diet du jour. The actual substance of an argument is all that most thinking people really care about. Trolls don't count. State a position and defend it. If you can't defend your position, you really shouldn't say it out loud, ie, post it on the internet. Stating that "It's a really difficult problem." got me thrown out of my junior high debating class in 1972. It didn't carry any weight then, and it still doesn't. If it wasn't a difficult problem we wouldn't be trying to discuss it.

So, is the new DEC ruling against using hunters to control feral hog populations working? Has the fact that hunters have been banned from dispersing hogs so that the DEC can successfully hunt or trap them been working? How many hogs has the DEC removed from the landscape. Where are the numbers? How many man-hours has the DEC devoted to the control of this invasive species? ....... Any??? Is the plan for eradication really working? Where's the story? How about it NYON, any plans for an investigative report to follow up on this story? Just wondering.

Minimum of 100 acres of corn and alfalfa. 20 to 30 cords of firewood cut each year. 150 acres of hay cut each year. Pasture 30 to 40 cows in the summer. This is a working 500 acre farm! And we have have killed mature bucks from here this year. As most years. Just saying, not as many seen the last couple of years. I'll let the experts sort it all out!

Very well said! I have been hunting a property for over 40 years, and this is the least amount of deer seen in that time.

I'm sick of DEC trying to BS us. They must think we're really stupid. "It's lack of participation, lots of mast on the ground, poor weather for hunting, lack of hunter proficiency, blah, blah, blah". I've got some ocean front property you might be interested in, if you're actually buying their lies. At least in my corner of 8N, the deer are NOT here. Like I said before, trail cameras don't lie. We have several cams, in different spots on the property, that have always produced a lot of pics. Yes, we have deer this year, but less than half of what we used to see on camera. Unless the deer (& turkeys, there's not many of them around either) have learned to avoid the cameras, THEY JUST AREN'T THERE. Yeah, there was a lot of food this year, but that's happened before. The difference is, in years past that had good mast crops, there were deer around to eat it. There's still apples laying under the trees at our place, as well as a lot of WHITE oak acorns. Don't feed me some crap about the deer not having to move to eat. There's no magical Mary Poppin's style, endless pile of freakin nuts laying in every bedding area. There were a lot of guys out down my way, too. I didn't notice any decrease in the amount of cars I saw parked, or hunters I saw in town. The only thing that decreased was the amount of shots. It's not just my place either. The neighbors aren't seeing jack. Sightings were even way down this year, at my friend's place in Scottsville, & we always used to see a LOT of deer there. That place was like a meat market, up until the last two seasons. Guys I know who hunt all over the region, are not seeing deer. One guy from my camp is a butcher in Walworth. Last week, he was at #74 for the year, where as he's usually into the 120's by now. Funny thing, he had DEC come by to check him out, & he had no deer on the floor. DEC guy said the last two butchers had no deer either. Strange. It's so disappointing that we hunters just suck lately. I'm sure that somehow, all the guys who know how to kill deer were either butchering them at home, or using other processors. Look at the amount of us on this site, who are just not seeing deer. It's not coincidence. Here at work, the amount of calls to remove roadkill deer has gone WAY down this year. Amazing! What a coincidence. People's driving skills must have improved, simultaneously with the decrease in hunter ability! Know what else is amazing? There's no huge packs of coyotes caught on camera either. No bears, cougars, wendigos, or any other type of super predator who could wipe out the deer. That's must mean it's not the predators! Shocking, right?!! It's the hard winters, too many damage permits, too many dmp's, & a DEC that wants the deer numbers decimated. Simple. They lie, & they'll continue to lie. Hunters are part of the problem, too. We sit here and decry the lack of deer, yet how many of us are willing to lay down the guns, & leave dmp's unfilled? I for one, am not filling any doe tags down at our place. Not this season, nor any time in the future, until I see a turnaround in deer numbers. Screw you DEC.

Need GPS dart to shoot out of trail cam at time of picture. It would make tracking and finding these bucks a lot easier Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holy crap, Chas !! 3500 FPS for a 130 in the .270 Win would be REALLY hot !! Typical muzzle velocities for that bullet in the .270 Win are around 3100.... You sure your chrony is telling you the truth ? If that velocity is correct I would worry about the safety of my load. Early production Barnes bullets had some issues..Many rifles would not group them well and excessive copper fouling was a problem.. Barnes addressed the problems, and modern TSX and TTSX Group as well or better in my rifles as any other bullets and copper fouling has been reduced .. They are a great hunting bullet.

You realize that this thread is from last year, right?

I had decoys. 4 larger sized fawns at 25 yards. Browsed for a bit and meandered off. Ok , so this is what they look like again. Larger variety now please

d-bone - Ford is right. Papist is a provocateur, good for a chuckle now and then. Papist - If you are the academician you claim, don't you have grades to do? No other prof I know has as much time as you for this stuff.

Killed 5 miles away. That is alot of asskicking.

Very cool! Looks like an old warrior, with a broken rack from sparring.

http://youtu.be/isKkiZYt8Tw X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Two inch thick lamb chops basted with olive oil, home grown garlic and chopped rosemary, grilled medium rare, plus oven roasted sweet potato and steamed green beans....Oh yeah...and BEER...

Dead serious Stoneam, it works! Your old buddy Skillet wouldn't lead ya wrong.

There were adults trying to discuss something on this thread so I'm not sure why you felt the need to get involved. But if I missed the point please let me know how what you posted has relevance? I'm sure letting gay people get married is somehow leading to mass shootings and the downfall of this country to right?

Ruger American for me. I own a .308 American as well as a 700SPS .308. Nikkon on both rifles. Both are tack drivers, but I'm only willing to truck the ruger through the woods. For the prices, I'm not going to bang up a $650 rifle in the woods when I can bang up one that costs a lot less and does the job just as well. Plus, the Ruger is much lighter, shorter and way more maneuverable. Shoots <1" @ 100yds with 150 grain Remmy Express Core Lokt. (tried Fusion and a couple winchester styles, but the Core Lokt shot more consistently). The mag feels loose, and makes me a bit nervous, but a few hundred rounds and still no issues. My hunting buddy just recently purchased a Savage 11 combo. Hated the scope and switched it out immediately for a ProStaff. He loves the gun, but I have no experience with it.

I think it is a lot of things as previously posted I will add that antler restriction and less doe permits in some areas alleviates a lot of the shooting at tales or movement.

Why is it that when we make a list of reasons for not seeing deer or a "bad" season... one thing that is never on the list is our ability as a deer hunter... 99 times out of 100.. it is something we are doing wrong... For example: Sitting in the same tree stand all season and not seeing deer isn't a bad season it's insane... hammering the same 100 acres of woods every day and not seeing a deer is not a bad season it's bad tactics Whitetail populations can fluctuate everywhere in NY due to many different factors from year to year... a good or bad season is usually on the hunter... unless of course there are absolutely NO deer... If there are fewer deer.. the better hunters will still usually find and kill one.. and if they don't they usually have a heck of a good time doing it and still chalk it up to a good season of hunting. When you have what you call a "bad" season it does much better to look at what YOU"RE doing and what you could do differently to be more successful. The population of deer in any area will always have it's up and down years

he left after I pissed out of the tree.

One farm I hunt in Lima is 250 acres; about 200 fields and 50 hardwoods/creekbottom combined. The place is FILTHY with coyotes. We see them all the time but rarely get a shot. A local trapper gets some but there are still a ton of them AND a ton of deer. Coyotes get plenty of fawns in the spring but I don't think they are doing THAT good of a job in lowering the population. I try and do my part...........are YOU?

As mentioned, the acorn crop was huge. Amazing how that changes their feeding habits, they just aren't out in the fields like normal years but sure are in the woods and don't move far at all.

We are in NY, its a once every few years occurrence. So next year you are killing one!

You're right, but in my instance we were seeing this buck regularly (every 2 days) in the same field at the same time (within a few minutes). I'm not saying he didn't frequent other properties but the amount we were seeing him he definitely wasn't traveling far. On the opposite nights we were seeing what looked like him (near dark and 400 yards away) in our adjacent green fields munching on cut soybean.

Well, it's official. The DEC and certain deer processors are telling us that all this "bad season" talk is ridiculous. The deer take is down only slightly as was predicted by the "wonder-stats" of the DEC. If we think we heard fewer shots, it is obviously a product of aging and worn-out ear-drums. If we thought we saw fewer deer, it is simply because of the failing eyesight of the aging hunter population. Even though we are all getting more experienced each year and using superior equipment every year, somehow our hunter prowess is deteriorating ..... apparently. Perhaps the processors that are claiming this to be an average to better year for them, may be some creative cherry-picking, I don't know. But according to the article in the NY Outdoor News, we don't have to worry about the reasons for fewer deer because there is no such shortage. Need further proof? Well consider that bowhunters and muzzleloaders were punished this year in some key areas for passing on does and only harvesting bucks. Obviously the DEC wouldn't do that if it wasn't true ..... right?

Words to live by

During the rut, yes that holds pretty true. In my experience, on the farms I hunt, if you want to go after a specific buck, the best time is early archery and late gun/ML season (if they didnt get whacked during the rut). They are more patternable at those times, and tend to stay pretty close to their core. During the rut all bets are off. You still have a good chance of seeing a buck near his core area, but he might go for a wander, or some other buck may wander in that you never saw before. Theres a buck that lives on one of our farms that I have tons of trail cam pics of, figured out his core area and I was after him all through bow season. I came very close to killing him twice. Since the second to last weekend of bow, Ive seen him once, at about 500 yards. I tried to cut him off but was unsuccessful. I havent seen him since opening week. This weekend Im going to collect up my cameras to put new batteries in and move them to new spots. Im hoping to see pics of him from the last week or so, as Im starting to think he got whacked somewhere else. I know Id have heard if any of the neighbors got him by now.

In think the core area of a mature buck doesnt change very much, Its the same 1 Sq mile it was born in, the first couple of years i believe they travel but then always come home to an area that has good doe bedding, He stays close all year and when the rut comes he doesnt have to travel at all, I think he will defend his core area, But as far as traveling they just dont do it, I have a friend who has killed 4 bucks all over 160" and many more that arent far from that, Every one of them he has had on camera for atleast 2 years, In the same woodlot he kills them in, never are they far from where he got his first sighting, His buck last year was shot right down his back 3 years earlier a 1/4 mile away from where he ended up killing it,, The reason we know its the same buck is because the slug hole through his ear and the scar down his back was put there buy him, When he shot at him in a deer drive when he was a 115" 10 point, after 10 years of data im convinced a 11/2 and 2/12 are roamers any thing older just stays put and doesnt move unless you kick him in the ass, jmho

JK! I'm out of likes for the day, but that's really great!

Omg! Gross. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=BCoackxqZ28

I don't know how to show you, but I'll try to explain it. 1: Hold the rabbit out in front of you, holding both front feet in one hand, so the body is hanging outstretched. 2: With the free hand, grasp the ribcage as far up under the armpits as you can. 3: Now, take the other hand, & encircle the whole body, making sure to have your hands as high up on the chest as you can get them. 4: Squeeze the ribcage of the rabbit as hard as you can, until you hear the ribs cracking & a bunch of gurgling / crunching inside the chest cavity. (This is the diaphragm ripping, & heart / lungs separating from the cavity walls). 5: Keeping a firm grip, start to work your hands down the body, towards the hind end. (Use a hand over hand motion, like you are trying to force frosting out of a cake-bag). You should hear popping / squishing noises as this happens. 6: When you reach a spot low in the abdomen, it will become hard to make any more progress. This is when you really grasp it tightly, and give one big final squeeze towards the rear. 7: If you've done it properly, everything will now come shooting out of the rabbit's ass. Heart, lungs, intestines. All of it. 8: You can then put the gutted rabbit in your game bag, without it bleeding everywhere, to be skinned later. When you do skin it, you'll see it's as clean inside, as if you'd field dressed it the traditional way. After a couple times, you'll be amazed how easy & fast it is.

The Weatherby Vanguard is another rifle that's very nice for the price.

That's why I think the right should come out with what they think should be done. Their lack of action is letting the left drive the narrative that guns are the problem.

When I was a teenager, I worked for a bear guide in Maine, 3 summers in a row. I'd go up in late July to help get stands ready, trim trails / shooting lanes, & bait the stands. At the end of the summer, He'd let me hunt the first week for free. I killed 2 bears at his place. He's dead now, but those are some great memories. I learned a lot from him. He would cringe every time someone showed up with a gun like a 243, 308, 300, etc. He said that shooting the faster calibers, that have lighter bullets, didn't work well at the ranges you shoot over bait. He said a lot of bears were lost by guys shooting 30yds with a 300. He didn't think the bullets really expanded at such close distances. He wasn't a fan of archery either, a lot of bears were lost that way, too. He said you're paying a lot of $ to shoot a bear, so why lower your chances at all? They don't always offer a bow shot, & it would suck to come away empty handed, when a gun would've made the difference. I can vouch for seeing some bears lost, over my years with him. Of course, it could've just been poor shot placement. Of the bears I saw lost, the hunter was always shooting one of the faster, flatter shooting rifles, usually a 30 cal. The blood trails were poor, & dried up quickly. I never saw anyone show up with a 243, & I'm sure he wouldn't have allowed it. Maybe it was coincidence, but I didn't see any bears lost by the guys who shot them with a 444, 45-70, 44 mag, 20ga, etc. Harold would always try to convince hunters to show up with a 40 cal, or a shotgun. He loved the guns that threw a big hunk of lead. Both of my bears were shot at around 35yds, & both died within sight of me. I used a 444 on one, & a 458win on the other. Personally, I would stay away from archery tackle for such a young guy. Bears are put together funny inside, the vitals sit a little lower than a deer, & there's a helluva big leg bone in there. Not sure how big your boy is, but if it were me, I'd try to get him shooting a 20ga or 44. I'm not claiming to be an expert, just going off of what I saw.

No doubt a fusion would do a fine job with any good broadside shot on an elk..Shoot 'em in the lungs and they die just like anything else. However, you may not be fortunate enough to get a nice broadside shot at a standing elk. Elk are much bigger than deer and they are just flat out tougher to kill, unless hit perfectly. What if the only shot you get at a bull is quartering away ? You might have to drive a bullet through a lot of tissue to reach the vitals. It makes sense to me to use a more heavily constructed bullet that will smash heavy bones and penetrate far enough to reach the vitals on a ranging shot or other less than perfect shot angle.

First you need a trap door from living room to basement to hoist up " already decorated fake tree "

Congrats! I like the part about giving thanks. That's something I do with every animal, & have taught my boy to do the same. Well done!

Yeah and now with legalized pot they'll all be too paranoid to go outside.

1. Return of a large coyote population. Maybe 2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1). This cannot explain anything about current conditions because the southern Zone earlier archery season has not been in effect long enough to be impacting current populations. 3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season. This also cannot explain anything about current populations because this is the first year that they have been allowed outside of regular gun season. plus, I don't believe that we have begun to see large scale participation with crossbows ..... Yet. 4. Early firearms youth hunt. While I have never seen real harvest numbers I do not believe the participation is significant enough to have any impact on herd sizes. 5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years. Maybe 6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits. Maybe Or maybe it is: crop harvests or outside interferences Hikers, bikers, dog walkers, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc. or snowmobile harassment when deer are trying to maintain delicate winter fat reserve levels or dogs or a sudden change in preferred food availability or poaching or the introduction of rifles as deer hunting weapons during previous years (if that is the case) or rut activity can also move herds to different patterns or housing or other kinds of land development or habitat deterioration or previous years of over populations that are finally being brought under control. or any of the other possibilities that have already been mentioned.