The Expanded Antler Restrictions - Who is excited?

[adirondackbushwhack]

Report it?

I did and so did several other people that I know of. Nothing is done.

[burmjohn]

Things were reported by us, and there has been a lot of DEC activity. Perhaps keep trying.

[meatmuzzy]

For what its worth im excited. I have a farm in 4G and we've been letting the small bucks walk for about 5 years now. Very frustrating to see a 4 pointer you've been passing all archery season hanging in front of your neighbors barn...

[BizCT]

I'm just happy 3N doesn't have AR's.....Any buck in 3N is a good buck....I pass smaller bucks early in the shotgun season, but towards the end I have no problem taking a spike.

[TheHunter]

Brown and down huh - great assumption, but wrong, not that it matters to you, your agenda, or your spread of misleading info. I have passed probably 100 6 pt or better bucks in just the last 5 years because they where young deer I felt where less the 4.5. I get to shoot some does so am happy. How many immature (less then 4.5) bucks have the pro AR people such as yourself killed in that same time simply because they had enough points?

Must have you and the other BiD Larry mixed up...

How many immature (less then 4.5) bucks have the pro AR people such as yourself killed in that same time simply because they had enough points?

None - Can't speak for others, but I'm picky. Passed on a 100 6pt or better bucks, thats pretty a pretty impressive BS stat.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TheHunter

[adirondackbushwhack]

Things were reported by us, and there has been a lot of DEC activity. Perhaps keep trying.

Reorted several times for a few years but gave up. I know that I was not the only one reporting too so it's not like I was the lone voice. Fact I reported poaching in the dacks too but met with the same result. The poaching along route 8 is blatant and DEC knows that it is going on.

[SteveB]

None - Can't speak for others, but I'm picky. Passed on a 100 6pt or better bucks, thats pretty a pretty impressive BS stat.

Again with the assumptions. 100 sightings 6pt + over 5 years is 20/year. Many are multiple sightings of the same bucks in a deer population area where more then 1/2 of the 1.5 bucks are 6 pt or better. And I got to hunt a lot until last year. It may be BS where you hunt, but your window obviously does not and cannot show what the whole state is like. Just as I cannot begin to assume that because I see a lot of young bucks then you must as well. Big and varied state.

I respect you for walking the talk by not choosing to shoot immature deer based on their point count. Actually sounds like we share the same goals for killing a buck - just don't agree on the value or willingness to have mandatory points based AR. Good luck with the season.

Edited July 11, 2012 by SteveB

[bigpaul]

I'm happy it passed! It's not a perfect plan, but it's something.

[nyantler]

Must have you and the other BiD Larry mixed up...

None - Can't speak for others, but I'm picky. Passed on a 100 6pt or better bucks, thats pretty a pretty impressive BS stat.

Then I guess my passing on 100's of 6pts and 8pts is probably BS too, but I've only been passing on younger bucks since 1994... I hate to say you're wrong because I'm not anti AR.. but you're wrong... if you really knew anything about AR's you'd know that 3 on a side, although a good start in some areas... really isn't a good way to protect yearlings... in fact point restrictions is the least effective type of antler restriction. Steve B's approach would serve any area far better than the 3 on a side rule. Unfortunately, most hunters NEED some kind of antler restriction imposed in order to achieve what Steve does on his own. Before jumping on the AR wagon you should educate yourself on why antler restrictions are beneficial.. You seem to think it's to grow bigger bucks to kill... that my friend is the wrong reason to havee antler restrictions.

[burmjohn]

Counting points is the only way to get mass AR adoption / identification in these area's. I can't think of a better way, but yes its a great start, especially for these area's.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

Gonna be hard on me on 4P. Haven't gotten a doe permit in years and probably won't again this year. Not like I even want to take a doe there, I only see about 2 deer come around the fields if I am lucky when I go up. If this AR were in my area last year i'd have 1 deer in the freezer instead of two. I'm up for the challenge though.

My plan is to aim for an early bow Doe in Orange/Sullivan County to fill the freezer before I start freezing my arse off.

Edited July 12, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[SteveB]

Thanks Joe - much clearer explanation.

[erussell]

Nice concept but not really one based on reality IMO. What do you do if all the 6 and above are killed in the 1st week of gun? Youll waste the rest of the season hunting for something that isnt there. I would rather the spikes and 4 s were shot leaving less tags unfilled and less hunters in the woods that might accidentally shoot one of the big boys Ive been watching all summer. Just IMO.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

No - because over 50% of the 1.5 are 6 pt or better here. It would have little to no effect.

There is nothing to show it would increase the number of real mature - 4.5 or older - bucks.

1.5 6pts's... I wanna move by you

[Larry]

Take a look at these no ar’s here no food plots just proper habitat management. I do on most places I hunt let small bucks walk but that’s my choice. there are couple of places where the land owner wants deer removed always try to remove doe’s first.

[wdswtr]

I do not hunt in any off the AR units, my only concern is I think some brown and down hunters will seek other places with better odds of harvesting whatever passes by. Which is well within there right if done so legally. Just a bummer seeing deer you let walk all bow season that have potential to become quite impressive and able to carry on there gene pool for more years stuffed in the back of a mini van on opening day.

[nyantler]

Nice concept but not really one based on reality IMO. What do you do if all the 6 and above are killed in the 1st week of gun? Youll waste the rest of the season hunting for something that isnt there. I would rather the spikes and 4 s were shot leaving less tags unfilled and less hunters in the woods that might accidentally shoot one of the big boys Ive been watching all summer. Just IMO.

Your concept is great if conservation is just to serve the hunter.. but conservation is for the benefit of the animal. The biggest obsticle of good wildlife conservation is the notion that it is to make hunting better... that is just a by-product of good conservation.

[nyantler]

Counting points is the only way to get mass AR adoption / identification in these area's. I can't think of a better way, but yes its a great start, especially for these area's.

Actually not true... spread measurement is the best... the "beyond the ears rule" would save nearly all yearling bucks... the problem with spread measurement for hunter is that they get all rapped up in the "what if"... like.. what if the buck is not facing you, or what if the rack is just to the ears... the answer to that is simple.. don't shoot... unfortunately most hunters are worried about hunting close to the rule instead of beyond the rule... With spread restriction... if the ears are 16" tip to tip... you make the spread restriction 14"... which makes "to the ears" no problem for the guy with itchy trigger finger.. anything outside the ears makes the grade easily... if you listen to the gentlemen here that have been voluntarily passing younger bucks, most of them don't have a problem passing on something that is too close to the minimum or a buck that they can't for sure determine spread width. They are not hunting close to the rule, but are hunting beyond the rule... and spread measurement is no problem. The problem only is with those that in reality need to take a buck at all costs and would rather hunt close to the rule to ensure that they will have an opportunity to tell their buddies that they didn't go without their buck that year..... face it.. we all know what a mature antlered buck looks like and what a small crotch, six or eight look like..

No AR will protect all 2.5 year olds that just comes with hunter experience... their protection comes from protecting yearlings and letting more bucks get to 2.5 where they will get another year of wisdom, which makes them that much harder to kill and gives them the opportunity to reach it to maturity.

[growalot]

In our area if they went on a spread rule not point....you'd have very few buck ever taken legally ....simple genetics....some of the best and oldest buck I've encountered here had very massive high tight racks...That's not to say there aren't any wide racked bucks I've taken several...but if speaking genetics only the majority of buck taken were the ones with only very wide racks what happens to the genetic make up down the road?....

Edited July 12, 2012 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

None - Can't speak for others, but I'm picky. Passed on a 100 6pt or better bucks, thats pretty a pretty impressive BS stat.

That is an average of 20 bucks a season.....you don't see 20 bucks a season?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I feel for the hunters in the AR area that have very limited access to doe permits. We get a little spoiled out here with very good odds at drawing two or even more. Best of luck.

[A Sportsman]

I hear you Growalot. my best buck to date is a high and tight 10-point, with real good mass. With such a rule, given a fleeting shot opportunity, I would have had to pass on him.

Speaking to someone's point above, isn't AR most often utilized in conjunction with doe permits? Some of these WMUs, like 3A, never have Doe permits. This compounds my frustration with it. Don't get me wrong though, based on the current "lowish" deer population statistics, it doesn't seem like doe permits should be issued to hunters over there.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Speaking to someone's point above, isn't AR most often utilized in conjunction with doe permits? Some of these WMUs, like 3A, never have Doe permits. This compounds my frustration with it. Don't get me wrong though, based on the current "lowish" deer population statistics, it doesn't seem like doe permits should be issued to hunters over there.

And the populeation should dictate the number of doe permits. It is just going to make a few very frustrating years for some of the folks in those areas.

[burmjohn]

Actually not true... spread measurement is the best... the "beyond the ears rule" would save nearly all yearling bucks... the problem with spread measurement for hunter is that they get all rapped up in the "what if"... like.. what if the buck is not facing you, or what if the rack is just to the ears... the answer to that is simple.. don't shoot... unfortunately most hunters are worried about hunting close to the rule instead of beyond the rule... With spread restriction... if the ears are 16" tip to tip... you make the spread restriction 14"... which makes "to the ears" no problem for the guy with itchy trigger finger.. anything outside the ears makes the grade easily... if you listen to the gentlemen here that have been voluntarily passing younger bucks, most of them don't have a problem passing on something that is too close to the minimum or a buck that they can't for sure determine spread width. They are not hunting close to the rule, but are hunting beyond the rule... and spread measurement is no problem. The problem only is with those that in reality need to take a buck at all costs and would rather hunt close to the rule to ensure that they will have an opportunity to tell their buddies that they didn't go without their buck that year..... face it.. we all know what a mature antlered buck looks like and what a small crotch, six or eight look like..

No AR will protect all 2.5 year olds that just comes with hunter experience... their protection comes from protecting yearlings and letting more bucks get to 2.5 where they will get another year of wisdom, which makes them that much harder to kill and gives them the opportunity to reach it to maturity.

True, I'd go for the ears thing in a second instead over points. So why did the state choose to go the points route? They must have thought its a better / easier option.

[burmjohn]

Take a look at these no ar’s here no food plots just proper habitat management. I do on most places I hunt let small bucks walk but that’s my choice. there are couple of places where the land owner wants deer removed always try to remove doe’s first.

And irrelevant, your in a totally different area where food sources, population, soil quality are totally different then where AR's are in place now.