The Expanded Antler Restrictions - Who is excited?

[Skillet]

I think I've said this before... I personally believe if you want to help the herd and make hunters happy.. it should have been put to a 1 buck rule.. period.. no restrictions other than that... you want to shoot a spike.. shoot it and your buck tag is done..

That is still an excellent point. You want self-regulating restraint on buck harvests? ...... Just make sure that the hunter understands that if he chooses to take a runt, that is a single, unreversible choice. How many times have I heard it said, "The first one is whatever it is and then I begin to "trophy hunt"? More times than I can count. That attitude would change real quick if there were no 2nd chances.

One buck per season regardless of weapon ..... just one. Sounds simple to me.

I agree completely. One buck of the hunter's choice, and that's it for the year.

[Skillet]

i would live off family and friends then maybe the land before welfare. I think some people should be forced to live off the land for the purpose of learning how to be self sufficient instead of me supporting them.

Well said, Paula.

[Paula]

Since we all have computers and access to the internet, I really don't think there is anyone on this forum that is being faced with any of those choices .... fortunately.

you can't assume to know anyone's money issues, having a computer means nothing. mine is paid for but maybe i am using my neighbors internet maybe i am having someone pay my internet bill. you just don't know so don't assume anything DOC

[BizCT]

I'd poach a human before a deer if I was starving. Humans are much easier to find and I heard humans taste better than deer anyway.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Tastes like chicken.....

And there is always free internet at the libraries

[nyantler]

you can't assume to know anyone's money issues, having a computer means nothing. mine is paid for but maybe i am using my neighbors internet maybe i am having someone pay my internet bill. you just don't know so don't assume anything DOC

Wouldn't you have someone pay to feed your family before you had them pay for your internet bill... ?? Just sayin'

[Paula]

Wouldn't you have someone pay to feed your family before you had them pay for your internet bill... ?? Just sayin'

sure would, and this is why i said it. again do not assume any ones situation just because they have access to a computer and internet

Since we all have computers and access to the internet, I really don't think there is anyone on this forum that is being faced with any of those choices .... fortunately.

[nyantler]

But if there are fewer receptive does in the second cycle (there will always be some) wouldn't the bucks then be more likely to cruise even farther and harder to find them?

Not necessarily... may simply be a doe or does in the same area that just didn't get bred during the short estrus cycle which only lasts 24 hours. It takes about 28 days for a doe to come back into heat if not bred the first time. All the more reason to have closer buck:doe ratios... so that you don't have 2-3 young bucks trying to service 20 does then trying again 28 days later and possibly again 28 days after that... the sooner all does get bred the sooner the buck "frenzy" will end. Don't get me wrong.. they still will have the urge... It is believed that this pheromones advertising the estrus cycle causes bucks to produce more male hormones, so without the female phermones filling the area the bucks urges will be diluted some... in herds with more older bucks and a well established hierarchy.. young bucks get tired of being kicked around and become more timid than they would be if they were the only age class breeding...

Edited August 7, 2012 by nyantler

[erussell]

I think im coming around to this one buck a yr thing and shorter gun season expanded muzzleloader , crossbow, and bow seasons. IMO its sounding like a better choice since the greatest % of deer are killed on the first day of gun and that first week. But im sure someone would have some beef with that also. The DEC would never go for it either, it would get in the way of thier plan to obliterate NY's deer herd!!

[First-light]

I thought about the 1 buck rule. What a bout the total experience of being in the woods all season long. The guy who doesn't get a doe permit is done hunting once he shoots his buck. The money he won't spend the rest of the season??? This may sway these hunter who have tagged out to get kids involved. They will have more time on their hands and want to get back in the woods. It may also drive up hunters using other peoples tags. Sure can see that happening. It wouldn't be a bad place to start but I don't see NY doing this.

[Uncle Nicky]

We've had it here in PA for 10 years. At first I hated it, then I started seeing lots of bigger racked bucks. PA handled it a little differently though, they started giving out a lot more doe tags at the same time they started AR, so at least you had a decent chance to fill the freezer if you're a meat hunter (which I am).

[growalot]

. Just make sure that the hunter understands that if he chooses to take a runt, that is a single, unreversible choice. How many times have I heard it said, "The first one is whatever it is and then I begin to "trophy hunt"? More times than I can count. That attitude would change real quick if there were no 2nd chances.

Doc I wish that were true...but it's just not....you've heard me tell of what happened...years ago when I went to get my hunting course in...Just irks me...how many ppl get family members to go for the safety course so they have that "extra" tag...Like I said before it is a wide spread problem...like the one local guy that actually goes as far as taking the kill and having a video tape of his wife...Who has NEVER shot a buck nor doe saying "If you hunt as hard as I you could get a buck like this too"...he not only has her reg season buck tag but...talked her and her girl friend into going for bow tags...then offered to buy the bow tag off from the girl friend...she refused...but yet never even went out and got a bow let alone shot one...all first kills for him are "practice for the big boy"

[nyantler]

I thought about the 1 buck rule. What a bout the total experience of being in the woods all season long. The guy who doesn't get a doe permit is done hunting once he shoots his buck. The money he won't spend the rest of the season??? This may sway these hunter who have tagged out to get kids involved. They will have more time on their hands and want to get back in the woods. It may also drive up hunters using other peoples tags. Sure can see that happening. It wouldn't be a bad place to start but I don't see NY doing this.

Thats what is use to be like back when there was a one buck rule...

[Doc]

Doc I wish that were true...but it's just not....you've heard me tell of what happened...years ago when I went to get my hunting course in...Just irks me...how many ppl get family members to go for the safety course so they have that "extra" tag...Like I said before it is a wide spread problem...like the one local guy that actually goes as far as taking the kill and having a video tape of his wife...Who has NEVER shot a buck nor doe saying "If you hunt as hard as I you could get a buck like this too"...he not only has her reg season buck tag but...talked her and her girl friend into going for bow tags...then offered to buy the bow tag off from the girl friend...she refused...but yet never even went out and got a bow let alone shot one...all first kills for him are "practice for the big boy"

Yes, there will always be the lawbreakers who will figure out ways to thwart just about anything you try to do. I suppose the same sort of lawbreaking would occur with ARs. That basically is an enforcement problem. Sure, I know people that do that or at least that I suspect are doing that. It was real popular back when you needed multiple people on party permits. It's amazing how many people were into hunting then that could hardly pick up a gun .... lol. But I would guess that regulations have to be created with the legal hunters in mind which I still believe are in the vast majority. And the ECOs will still be charged with upholding the law as with every other law on the books.

[growalot]

ECOs will still be charged with upholding the law as with every other law on the books.

Hhhmmmm I wish I were naive...but that's a whole other issue...who you know and what you do

Now I have to ask...any of you been looking at the trail cam pics?...many of those beauties are not being photographed in AR areas...should I be adding these tallies to the ODN pics?...perhaps they are all just migrating north west...lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Not necessarily... may simply be a doe or does in the same area that just didn't get bred during the short estrus cycle which only lasts 24 hours. It takes about 28 days for a doe to come back into heat if not bred the first time. All the more reason to have closer buck:doe ratios... so that you don't have 2-3 young bucks trying to service 20 does then trying again 28 days later and possibly again 28 days after that... the sooner all does get bred the sooner the buck "frenzy" will end. Don't get me wrong.. they still will have the urge... It is believed that this pheromones advertising the estrus cycle causes bucks to produce more male hormones, so without the female phermones filling the area the bucks urges will be diluted some... in herds with more older bucks and a well established hierarchy.. young bucks get tired of being kicked around and become more timid than they would be if they were the only age class breeding...

I understand that logic but have they tried to quantify the effects n a study?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I thought about the 1 buck rule. What a bout the total experience of being in the woods all season long. The guy who doesn't get a doe permit is done hunting once he shoots his buck. The money he won't spend the rest of the season??? This may sway these hunter who have tagged out to get kids involved. They will have more time on their hands and want to get back in the woods. It may also drive up hunters using other peoples tags. Sure can see that happening. It wouldn't be a bad place to start but I don't see NY doing this.

That is kind of the purpose of that rule. Allow the hunter to choose and if they choose to end their season early and take a yearling...it is their choice.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc I wish that were true...but it's just not....you've heard me tell of what happened...years ago when I went to get my hunting course in...Just irks me...how many ppl get family members to go for the safety course so they have that "extra" tag...Like I said before it is a wide spread problem...like the one local guy that actually goes as far as taking the kill and having a video tape of his wife...Who has NEVER shot a buck nor doe saying "If you hunt as hard as I you could get a buck like this too"...he not only has her reg season buck tag but...talked her and her girl friend into going for bow tags...then offered to buy the bow tag off from the girl friend...she refused...but yet never even went out and got a bow let alone shot one...all first kills for him are "practice for the big boy"

It is impossibel to quantify but I believe we are underestimating how often this happens. I think is goes on a lot....especially with the signing over of doe tags.(WORST IDEA THEY HAD). Now you have someone get a license ...could even be someone that used to hunt....how much temptation is there with an extra buck tag floating around.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doc]

It is impossibel to quantify but I believe we are underestimating how often this happens. I think is goes on a lot....especially with the signing over of doe tags.(WORST IDEA THEY HAD). Now you have someone get a license ...could even be someone that used to hunt....how much temptation is there with an extra buck tag floating around.

Not to get too far afield with this part of the discussion, but regarding illegal activities in hunting, one thing to keep in mind is that the guy who slaps grandma's buck tag on his extra buck still has to get it out of the woods, onto his car and home without someone asking why he doesn't look like an 81 year old lady. Odds are probably in his favor that he can pull it off given the scarceness of law enforcement.

But the important thing that one has to remember that the guy probably doesn't look a lot like his wife, grandmother, or grandfather, so that tag really isn't all that much of a protection against arrest. If he gets caught, he still would likely be asked to show identity. If he doesn't get caught, he doesn't need the license.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Might be a trick on state land, but with the ability of permission slips for transport and how everyone is in constant communication on cell phones, it truely would be a cake walk on a private lot. undated, signed permission slip in the pocket....one phone call. "Honey, you shot a 4 point today, congratulations"

[Doc]

Might be a trick on state land, but with the ability of permission slips for transport and how everyone is in constant communication on cell phones, it truely would be a cake walk on a private lot. undated, signed permission slip in the pocket....one phone call. "Honey, you shot a 4 point today, congratulations"

I'll be honest, I would be really nervous about transporting an illegal deer tagged only with my wife's tag even given the possibility of getting away with it. If I felt that confident, I wouldn't even bother with the tag at all. And then there is the inconvenience of having a buck that you don't dare tell anyone about ..... lol.

No, seriously, I understand that anyone bent on pulling off an illegal act can pretty much figure a way around it. The DEC is not adequately staffed to be much more than a very remote threat to such things. However, we cannot design our game management rules and regulations around those possibilities. If we were to do that, then we might as well just eliminate all rules and regulations because they all can be gotten around by a determined lawbreaker.

[growalot]

Like I said ..I wish I were naive...but it does happen a lot whether ppl care to admit it or not and just wait....There are going to be a whole lot of ppl with felonies that use to be able to hunt...and now CAN'T legally...I really thought the crossbow legislation would have gone through this year...so there will be all kinds of rarely used "bow" tags and many more "woman" hunters tagging put this year....and more than likely grama's... grandpas ...older moms and dads hunting again......" Hey dad...congrats you just got a nice 8pt...down by the creek at 10:45...just in case anyone asks."...

[burmjohn]

Blowhard is a term of endearment, John.

In answer to your question, I hunt in region 8, where there is not yet AR. So, as of yet, I am not a poacher.

I wasn't questioning what a blowhard is but rather your use of it.

Thanks for clearing up that your not even in an AR area.

[eagle rider]

The issue is bigger than AR's in my mind. The DEC is becoming more restrictive in area's where deer are plentiful for what reason. DMU permints in 4W are already low probability to be issued. Now we a shooter buck is 3 or better on one side. The rpple effects will be far worse than hunters not getting deer economically, I think. Who's gonna hunt there if you can't take anything in the rea unless its an older buck. Besides, plenty of us are still in it for theeating. So with low probability on DMU permits in 4W, thanks for a lot of hunters likely going hungry. I'm sure I will have many kind words to say about the DEC when I'm siting in my stand with NO DMU permits watching an endless parade of does walking by me. Oh and by the way,...... The AR's are a feel good with no bioloical benefit at all. Thanks again DEC.

[Fairgame]

I hunt 3h which has been an AR area for six years. In the past six years I can say that I have not had a problem shooting a deer. If anything I have had the opportunity to harvest bigger bucks than in the past. By choice I let all of the yearling bucks walk which some have been legal to shoot. I actually have more of a choice to make now and that is what buck to shoot when before we were lucky to see a spike or a four pointer.

The first year was the hardest because of how limited it is to get a dmp in this area but did get a doe during bow. It has completely changed hunting for the better IMO.