Arrow speed VS Arrow momentum

[josephmrtn]

http://www.qdma.com/articles/momentum-beats-speed-for-lethal-arrow-hits?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July+22+Newsletter+-+LEM+friends&utm_content=July+22+Newsletter+-

 

VERY interesting and informative

[5.9cummins]

Yup - I shoot 60 lbs with a arrow setup that runs about 9 grains per pound.

 

 

[NFA-ADK]

I have used ICS 400 Beman hunter 8.4 gpi.  The were a little light for 65 lbs bow.  Used 340 ICS hunter at 9.3 gpi last year.  Just purchased some ICS hunter pro 340 at 8.8 gpi.  Slightly longer shaft due to smaller knocks but should still be light arrow with good pass-through.  They are sure hard to pull out of the 3D targets!!!   Get to try the new ICS Hunter Pro's this week!  Purchased 13, hope to have at least 6 to chose from by Sep 27th. 

[sits in trees]

An arrow with a good sharp tip on it and plenty of practice, that is about as technical as I need to get. Why must we always over complicate everything.

[Doc]

An arrow with a good sharp tip on it and plenty of practice, that is about as technical as I need to get. Why must we always over complicate everything.

Back in the day when I used to eat, sleep and breathe archery, I used to read every technical article and test report of each and every new bow, arrow, and any other archery related trinket and gadget. I'd be the first out there to argue any little, nearly insignificant, virtue of bow features and performances. I have torn apart and rebuilt more bows than most people have ever owned. I think that is just typical of anybody who is totally immersed in anything. It becomes obsessive. I certainly understand it and have been there.

 

Today, I simply hunt. I found an archery set-up that gets deer within the limitations that I have set for myself. The bow is now getting quite old (I believe we are closing in on 10 years old now). The arrows are old Easton aluminums (some from the late 70's). The release and arrow rest is the same age as the bow (nothing special). Just a couple years ago, I was using some old Bear Razorheads of a late 1960's vintage. My sight is a home-made one with parts from an old Cobra sight of the 1980's. The story these days is if it ain't broke, it ain't going to be replaced. My emphasis is now on the hunting, and the techno-trinkets are a thing of the past. It's alright .... I still get deer. In fact, one of my more prolific bows was that old Bear whitetail Hunter with solid epoxy limbs that you could use for a pry-bar if you so desired ... lol. Speed? Well it didn't fare well in that department, but it sure did get deer.

 

Anyway, if people still like to argue about that last FPS, or that last Ft-Pound of energy, I certainly understand it. Been there .... Done that. But I also appreciate the school of thought that says, "Just get out there and kill a deer", because that's where I'm at today.

[SteveB]

From the article:

A baseball going 100 mph has less momentum than a bowling ball going 10 mph

 

Love these lame analogies.

A bowling ball weighs 16 lbs - a baseball 5.25 ounces. 48 times more.

Are comparing a 325 gr arrow to one weighing 15,600 gr?

 

The basketball and Cadillac is even more ridiculous - weight difference is times 1000's.

Anyone want to be in front of a baseball doing 480 mph?

Or better yet, a basketball going 1000+ mph?

 

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by SteveB

[Doewhacker]

The writer used a lot of words. Let me condense it for every one, you want to shoot the proper spine arrow in the heaviest GPI you can find and afford in a hunting set up.  

 

Mine are 13.6 GPI pushed by 70# with a 29 inch draw.

 

Back in the day of alluminum no one had to worry about GPI because they were all heavy, lol.

 

 

[Lawdwaz]

Back in the day when I used to eat, sleep and breathe archery, I used to read every technical article and test report of each and every new bow, arrow, and any other archery related trinket and gadget. I'd be the first out there to argue any little, nearly insignificant, virtue of bow features and performances. I have torn apart and rebuilt more bows than most people have ever owned. I think that is just typical of anybody who is totally immersed in anything. It becomes obsessive. I certainly understand it and have been there.

 

Today, I simply hunt. I found an archery set-up that gets deer within the limitations that I have set for myself. The bow is now getting quite old (I believe we are closing in on 10 years old now). The arrows are old Easton aluminums (some from the late 70's). The release and arrow rest is the same age as the bow (nothing special). Just a couple years ago, I was using some old Bear Razorheads of a late 1960's vintage. My sight is a home-made one with parts from an old Cobra sight of the 1980's. The story these days is if it ain't broke, it ain't going to be replaced. My emphasis is now on the hunting, and the techno-trinkets are a thing of the past. It's alright .... I still get deer. In fact, one of my more prolific bows was that old Bear whitetail Hunter with solid epoxy limbs that you could use for a pry-bar if you so desired ... lol. Speed? Well it didn't fare well in that department, but it sure did get deer.

 

Anyway, if people still like to argue about that last FPS, or that last Ft-Pound of energy, I certainly understand it. Been there .... Done that. But I also appreciate the school of thought that says, "Just get out there and kill a deer", because that's where I'm at today.

 

It ain't the arrow, it's the archer.

 

 

(summed up your wording!!)

[moog5050]

I shoot heavy (495g) arrows by todays standards for 3 simple reasons:

 

1.  I seem to hold tighter groups;

 

2.  They are quieter;

 

3.  They penetrate the target deeper.

 

Since I won't likely ever shoot beyond 40 yards where I hunt, speed is not really a factor, in my opinion.  I do believe that the heavier arrows maintain greater momentum.  But even light arrows will kill anything you hunt in NY.

Edited July 23, 2013 by moog5050

[shawnhu]

I'm surprised folks don't practice and preach never too much arrow like some do with guns.

Shot placement is key, and if a faster arrow helps get that, some of you really should consider it.

[Doewhacker]

Yes please tell us with all of your years of archery experience how speed makes an arrow more accurate.

[shawnhu]

3 minutes, not bad DW. Get a life.

If you can't understand how a faster arrow helps with accuracy, then there's no point in explaining it to you. Go back to school and educate yourself in physics.

[Elmo]

E=MC^2

[Doewhacker]

3 minutes, not bad DW. Get a life.

If you can't understand how a faster arrow helps with accuracy, then there's no point in explaining it to you. Go back to school and educate yourself in physics.

 

 

So you have no answer, thanks for all the input based on all of your archery experience.

[shawnhu]

3 minutes, not bad DW. Get a life.

If you can't understand how a faster arrow helps with accuracy, then there's no point in explaining it to you. Go back to school and educate yourself in physics.

So you have no answer, thanks for all the input based on all of your archery experience.

Sure thing asshat.

[Doewhacker]

Nice, constant insults.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Speed helps with a flatter trajectory at longer distances. It has little to do with accuracy.

[shawnhu]

Speed helps with a flatter trajectory at longer distances. It has little to do with accuracy.

And for some, this is as accurate as they will ever care to be. If one can't afford the care to practice with a heavier arrow, what makes one think they would know exactly how far the target is an know which pin to use?

[Doewhacker]

Speed helps with a flatter trajectory at longer distances. It has little to do with accuracy.

 

 

True but a heavier arrow looses less speed as it goes down range than a lighter arrow. Meaning a heavier arrow will carry more Ke to target than a lighter faster one will.

[BizCT]

Here's what I shoot.

 

Excalibur Vortex Crossbow shooting 417 grains at 302fps.

 

@ 10 yards = 294 fps and 77 KE

@ 20 yards = 288 fps and 74 KE

@ 30 yards = 283 fps and 71 KE

@ 40 yards = 277 fps and 66 KE

@ 50 yards = 272 fps and 65 KE

[shawnhu]

Speed helps with a flatter trajectory at longer distances. It has little to do with accuracy.

True but a heavier arrow looses less speed as it goes down range than a lighter arrow. Meaning a heavier arrow will carry more Ke to target than a lighter faster one will.

That must be why most predator hunters use heavy bullets with less than 1000 fps speeds, because its just more accurate and retains more energy.... said no one, ever.

[jesse.james]

Im building an ashby arrow this year. Overly stiff spine in the .250 range probably VAP v1s. Then a 90 gn insert on the front then a 145g single bevel phathead on the front. Should blow through just about anything. Ends up being about a 20% FOC and around 520 grains of arrow.

[WNYBuckHunter]

True but a heavier arrow looses less speed as it goes down range than a lighter arrow. Meaning a heavier arrow will carry more Ke to target than a lighter faster one will.

 

Yup. I was agreeing with you. lol

[Doewhacker]

That must be why most predator hunters use heavy bullets with less than 1000 fps speeds, because its just more accurate and retains more energy.... said no one, ever.

 

Guns and bows have nothing to do with one another, guns kill force, bows kill by cutting. Again tell me how a faster arrow will be any more accurate than a slower one.

[Doewhacker]

Yup. I was agreeing with you. lol

 

I know, I was pointing it out for the less experienced archers here...like Shawnhu.