Is this where hunting is headed?

[BizCT]

29 minutes ago, TheHornHunter said:

I think people underestimate how much taxes can be on some of these properties and what the means for the economics on the parties involved. Can't blame landowners for not wanting to eat the tax bill themselves and a lot of folks including myself have decided it's a better use of capital to lease vs. buy. I've been in the market to buy land for several years and had a few deals fall apart because of what the taxes were going to be once the appraisal value on the town books repriced to what I would have paid. Rough #s but usually was working out to about 3-4% of my purchase price in taxes per year... latest example was 110 acres near Rochester that I could have got for ~$250K but was going to run me ~$10K per year in taxes. The previous land owner was paying $3,500 in taxes and that wasn't a terrible deal but his appraisal value hadn't changed in the 20+ years he owned it.

20 years and no appraisals is crazy. Locally it's revaluation every 5 years. 

[moog5050]

5 minutes ago, BizCT said:

nothing sneaky about it. It's just Public hunting land. They illegally bait it too. We find the empty bags. It gets hammered with guys, but most cant handle the steep hills so we rarely see other hunters except in the distance. 

Steep hills - I am out.   GL!   Lol

[TheHornHunter]

10 minutes ago, BizCT said:

20 years and no appraisals is crazy. Locally it's revaluation every 5 years. 

I think that's what most places do. My home is every 3 to 5 years. Idk if they tried to reappraise it and he fought it or what, but it hadn't changed from his original purchase price. I asked the town treasurer about it and he made it seem like it wasn't uncommon. 

[land 1]

6 hours ago, Belo said:

largest STATE park in the US. Very important distinction and after the state made it forever wild and eliminated logging, it's really, really tough hunting. The best thing NY could do would be to go in and selectively log the DAKs. It'd generate millions in revenue, fuel renewable resources from within the country instead of the rainforests of Brazil to help with the war on plastics and best of all open up the canopy to new young growth for wildlife to thrive.

But yeah... never going to happen.

what park is bigger federal or state the adks? just curious in lower 48 i know alaska has millions of acres, what im finding is federal or state Adks is largest 

Edited August 30, 2022 by land 1

[Four Seasons]

5 hours ago, Nomad said:

Our farm land is a half hour or so away from there 116 acres, about $2500 a year in taxes . Your friend should be paying a grand or so , not a lot really .

100 acre hobby farm across the road is paying over 6 grand in taxes. Of course that has buildings and such but I can’t imagine a $350.000 fifty acre purchase in Livingston/ Wyoming Cty area getting off that cheap. 

[BizCT]

Steep hills - I am out.   GL!   Lol

Sit on your butt and slide down the ice. That’s what I and the WNYers did


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[UpStateRedNeck]

Flatlanders.  

[G-Man]

Wait the the state starts taxing the landowners on value of standing timber.. it will be big lease for $  or cut every tree down... 

[UpStateRedNeck]

9 hours ago, G-Man said:

Wait the the state starts taxing the landowners on value of standing timber.. it will be big lease for $  or cut every tree down... 

Impossible.  DEC couldn't legally get on everyone's land, nevermind have the manpower to do it.  Schmucks like me who are in the 480a program though, they could walk on any time they wanted.

[land 1]

9 hours ago, G-Man said:

Wait the the state starts taxing the landowners on value of standing timber.. it will be big lease for $  or cut every tree down... 

think a few towns /counties tried this once failed quickley never even went into effect due to each property being diffrent in timber and terrain and so forth it came down to a forster would have to go to every property and do a detailed report and if the land owner cut they would have to do it all over again.... Redneck What does the DEC have to do with inspecting for Taxes? 

[UpStateRedNeck]

33 minutes ago, land 1 said:

think a few towns /counties tried this once failed quickley never even went into effect due to each property being diffrent in timber and terrain and so forth it came down to a forster would have to go to every property and do a detailed report and if the land owner cut they would have to do it all over again.... Redneck What does the DEC have to do with inspecting for Taxes? 

State foresters are all in the DEC.  They're the ones who inspect the properties.  And they are INCREDIBLY understaffed right now.

[Five Seasons]

19 hours ago, Nomad said:

Our farm land is a half hour or so away from there 116 acres, about $2500 a year in taxes . Your friend should be paying a grand or so , not a lot really .

it's a funny thing right. If it's just land an investment it's not much at all. But if you're like, I'm paying $2500 to just deer hunt? That part is hard for some to swallow, especially those in their 60's who grew up basically hunting wherever for free. I think that's the point of the post.

But maybe if you're riding snowmobiles, dirtbikes, turkey hunting etc on the land, that helps justify the cost. And of course for some, $2500 is nothing to them. It's the principal of it though I think.

[luberhill]

22 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

A friend just bought 50 acres of tillable farm land along the edge of Letchworth for 8 grand plus and acre. Do the math on the taxes in that area. A guy gets a good place to hunt he best be kissing the landowners azzzz every chance he gets. 

I have exclusive on 100 acres , about 30 is wooded the rest ag fields .

He doesn’t charge me but .. I work for him doing hay etc when he calls I go .

I have another smaller lot ( 6 acres) that’s surrounded by woods on one side and ag fields on the other sides.

Never shot a good buck here but can take a big doe anytime 

[The_Real_TCIII]

On 8/28/2022 at 1:32 PM, DDT said:

$18 per acre. Seems reasonable to me. 8 people go in on it and form a hunting club. Get a several year lease  agreement. Alot cheaper than taxes to own.

They may not allow eight but I agree with you. Buying land an hour plus away scares the hell out of me, Id lay awake wondering who's on it all week. And if your neighbors or the hunting sucks you are SOL. With a lease you simply walk away

[phade]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

it's a funny thing right. If it's just land an investment it's not much at all. But if you're like, I'm paying $2500 to just deer hunt? That part is hard for some to swallow, especially those in their 60's who grew up basically hunting wherever for free. I think that's the point of the post.

But maybe if you're riding snowmobiles, dirtbikes, turkey hunting etc on the land, that helps justify the cost. And of course for some, $2500 is nothing to them. It's the principal of it though I think.

I don't think many people buy land just to deer hunt. It can be one way to use it, but unless you're independently wealthy you want some degree of payback.

It's mostly seen as a way to hold assets, clearly not as liquid as cash or stock, but still very much so an asset that in alot of cases ends up with material appreciation. What are the chances you buy land now, in your 40's and sell 20-30 years from now with likely value growth - and one that probably competes well with the market? Pretty good I'd say. Again, I understand both sides of the coin, but if you're looking at land purchases just to deer hunt, you probably don't understand basic personal finance.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, phade said:

I don't think many people buy land just to deer hunt. It can be one way to use it, but unless you're independently wealthy you want some degree of payback.

It's mostly seen as a way to hold assets, clearly not as liquid as cash or stock, but still very much so an asset that in alot of cases ends up with material appreciation. What are the chances you buy land now, in your 40's and sell 20-30 years from now with likely value growth - and one that probably competes well with the market? Pretty good I'd say. Again, I understand both sides of the coin, but if you're looking at land purchases just to deer hunt, you probably don't understand basic personal finance.

I agree but then think about some of these leases. You're spending thousands to literally just deer hunt and gaining no equity while doing it. 

[BizCT]

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

I agree but then think about some of these leases. You're spending thousands to literally just deer hunt and gaining no equity while doing it. 

That's why my Dad bought. He is not rich or wealthy by any means. Never made 6 figures in his life. Bought land to strictly hunt for $50K. Figured it's like a lease if he loses any money on it when he gets too old to climb the hills and sells. This will be year 7 on it and I'm sure he can get what he paid for it.

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, BizCT said:

That's why my Dad bought. He is not rich or wealthy by any means. Never made 6 figures in his life. Bought land to strictly hunt for $50K. Figured it's like a lease if he loses any money on it when he gets too old to climb the hills and sells. This will be year 7 on it and I'm sure he can get what he paid for it.

After my first season when I realized how much I enjoyed hunting, the first thing I did was look for land.  I didn't want to have to depend on permission, or chase leases, etc.   Its a lot of wetland but nice knowing I have a place to hunt deer (lots of does and good bucks every year), predators and go shoot all fairly close to home.   My total taxes are only $900/yr for 40 acres.  It was worth it to me and I remain happy that I bought the land.  But my investment was fairly modest.  Would I spend big money to buy and on taxes yearly, probably not.

[Jeremy K]

33 minutes ago, Belo said:

I agree but then think about some of these leases. You're spending thousands to literally just deer hunt and gaining no equity while doing it. 

If you can get 80 to 90 acres with 4 guys you're looking at 400 to 600 a  year per guy . My golfing friends drop way more then that every year I'd bet. Not a horrible way to spend a little money.

[BizCT]

7 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

After my first season when I realized how much I enjoyed hunting, the first thing I did was look for land.  I didn't want to have to depend on permission, or chase leases, etc.   Its a lot of wetland but nice knowing I have a place to hunt deer (lots of does and good bucks every year), predators and go shoot all fairly close to home.   My total taxes are only $900/yr for 40 acres.  It was worth it to me and I remain happy that I bought the land.  But my investment was fairly modest.  Would I spend big money to buy and on taxes yearly, probably not.

Nice, yea It was lifelong dream for my Dad. His taxes aren't much higher than yours (non buildable land). I want to say only $1,100

[BizCT]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

If you can get 80 to 90 acres with 4 guys you're looking at 400 to 600 a  year per guy . My golfing friends drop way more then that every year I'd bet. Not a horrible way to spend a little money.

$400-$600 is one month (3-4 rounds). Between the greens fees, range balls, beers, etc. $400-$600 for a full hunting season is a great deal.

[Robhuntandfish]

gotta figure most dudes have a hobby. And they will invest in that to their means.  It might be cars, travel, golf, snowmobiles, fishing etc etc.  They will spend to their means for each of those hobbies. If you have the wallet to buy land you prob will.  If not its leasing, permission private or public.  I know i could def not afford to buy land just to hunt, if i could would I - yes.  But i def have a lucky situation.  

[Five Seasons]

50 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

If you can get 80 to 90 acres with 4 guys you're looking at 400 to 600 a  year per guy . My golfing friends drop way more then that every year I'd bet. Not a horrible way to spend a little money.

who the heck wants to share? What is this kindergarten? 

 

but yeah I get it haha.

[Five Seasons]

8 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

gotta figure most dudes have a hobby. And they will invest in that to their means.  It might be cars, travel, golf, snowmobiles, fishing etc etc.  They will spend to their means for each of those hobbies. If you have the wallet to buy land you prob will.  If not its leasing, permission private or public.  I know i could def not afford to buy land just to hunt, if i could would I - yes.  But i def have a lucky situation.  

that's a very good point indeed. I think the modern hunter views hunting as a hobby (I know I do). But it wasn't that long ago that it wasn't really a hobby and a lot cheaper in the 70's to go deer hunting a few weekends vs souping up your camaro. Cars and golf have always been expensive. Hunting is a newly expensive thing and the most expensive part is the land. The north american model was meant to allow access to game for all (not the kings deer) and that has slipped some in the last 20-30 years. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Belo

[Jeremy K]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

who the heck wants to share? What is this kindergarten? 

 

but yeah I get it haha.

i love it, im part of a solid group and we all hunt the same way. Beside who wants to pass around a jar of apple pie moonshine by themselves while celebrating a kill?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Jeremy K