When hunting is not fun anymore.

[noodle one]

  I started hunting 55 years ago because I loved the woods and the smell of fall, the colors of the trees and the first snow fall. I loved it all and it was fun. Most of all I loved seeing the animals. To me , tracking a deer and getting close without it knowing I was there ,that was the best, be it a trophy buck or doe, a mature deer or a yearling, they were all trophys to me. If I was lucky to harvest one, I would show it off with pride.

Back then you would find very few posted signs and when you did find one, you knew that it was owned by someone from down state, the city. The locals didn't post their land. All  you had to do was ask if you could hunt and the answer was always the same,yes. After a few years of the down staters buying up land and posting it , the locals started posting theirs, To keep the city hunters out, not the locals. Hunting was fun and everyone enjoyed the outdoors.

  Today all of that has changed, The simplicity has gone out of hunting. The fun for is gone. Why?

The answer to that is, Attitude, there are some who worry more about killing a trophy buck than just enjoying the hunt it self. People are ready to criticize others for the way others hunt, the taking of young bucks and not letting the deer to mature. The killing of does. There is so much negtive attitude, that hunting is not fun any more. Alot of todays hunters are living in a dream world or TV land, they watch TV hunting shows and think everyone should hunt and think that way and that way only. The days of when you would be on stand and some one would come walking by, you would wave and maybe talk a little bit and wish each other good luck. Today some hunters get pissed because you are in thier area and they think that you have ruin thier hunt. Get a life.

  There are others who spend more time hunting trespassers than hunting deer. They are up set because some one has a stand near their property line and they worry more about that, than they

do enjoying the hunt. Some one else might get that trophy buck that he has trail cam pictures of.

Todays hunters are all about me, me,me. Todays hunter are a selfish cry baby. They jealousy guard there hunting land. Hunting to them is no longer recreational. They have to be in control all the time. This makes them the great hunter, that they see on TV. There is no camaradene in hunting today.

  Maybe some of us need to rethink the way we hunt and think more about how we treat other hunters. Then we can start to enjoy hunting again and let it be fun.

[steve863]

I would agree with just about all the points you made.  I would say, however, that the trophy craze is surely not something the city folks created.  Most of the TV trophy hunting personalities are far from being city boys!  Lots of locals are as trophy crazed as anyone else, plus they generally have more time to hunt for them since they live closer to the woods.  Many city folks are happy with anything they might get with their more limited hunting time, although there are surely some trophy crazed among them also.  These days you have locals setting up cameras in the woods just like anyone else and a good many of them will be pissed off when their trophy buck is shot by the guy down the road just like some city folks would.  That is the only thing I want to add here.

[gundeck]

I would also have to disagree with the "city folk" being responsible for the posting craze.  I grew up in a rural area where things were much like you said, but after nearly 20 years in the Navy, I have settled in western NY.  I think there are more property feuds here than the Hatfields and McCoys were credited with.  The funny thing is that many of the people posting their property are the first to trespass on the neighbors land if it suits them.  What ever happened to ethics?

[First-light]

Noodle,

There are all types in every group, upstate trespassers and down state trespassers. I agree with everything you say except for the 2nd paragraph. 30 years ago I hunted property that was not posted. The owner didn't believe in posting the property but family members always complained about people from town

using the land and spoiling the hunt for the family members. It's all over the place and not confined to one group causing the problem. It's unfortunate that some property (that has been used by locals for years) gets bought by someone down state person and gets posted. That's just the way it goes weather it form upstate or downstate.

[phade]

Property access is a huge factor, no doubt.

Much of the issue is small parcelization. Similar to more big bucks in one area...too many and they get to scrapping, etc. from time to time....

More small parcels means more boundaries.

[Daveboone]

I generally agree with most of what you say, but also disagree with the city types ruining it. For decades, generations, rural sports bagged the local trophies by spotlight,  then bragged it up. I am constantly amazed at the folks who claim there isnt any place to hunt, yet I drive through state and county forest where I had good luck in the past to see it empty of hunters trucks. Everyone thinks private land is the only place to hunt now. Most of todays hunters are succombing to the constantly dwindling recourse of time, and seeking whatever means they have to be succsessful in it. Can you imagine the madness in states where the hunting season is only a week long, not two months long?

[TheHunter]

The city folk are the ones paying taxes and using zero services.... The city folk are the reason that your taxes are not through the roof.  If you don't like the "city" folk, then you should have bought that land yourself.  I hear this crap and it makes me sick.  The city folk post the land because they do not want trespassers, they understand safety, and they want their land respected because THEY PAID FOR IT.

[TheHunter]

Forgot to mention the boost to local economy that these city folk bring.  Shopping at local shops, eating at diners and restaurants, going apple picking, buying gas and groceries, staying at hotels..  Those damn city folk, what are we going to do with them! 

[TheHunter]

I also forgot to mention all those city folk that buy land, and build on their property.  Hiring local contractors, electricians, plumbers, landscapers, roofers, etc.  Have you ever talked to a "city" person, you'd might be shocked to find they are nicer then you perceive them as.

[noodle one]

I also forgot to mention all those city folk that buy land, and build on their property.  Hiring local contractors, electricians, plumbers, landscapers, roofers, etc.  Have you ever talked to a "city" person, you'd might be shocked to find they are nicer then you perceive them as.

  I know many city hunters and also some from down on the Island and most of them are good people and I am happy to call them friends. Maybe I should have worded it different when I said the down staters were buying the land  and posting it. Everyone knows that the pay scale is so much higher down state than it is up state and that is the reason people from around the city and the Island can afford to buy land up state. the people who own the land for sale always advistise down state because they know that is were the money is. When this happen it prices the up state people out of it. because they can not afford to pay the high price. I hope this clears things up.

[Doc]

  Today some hunters get pissed because you are in thier area and they think that you have ruin thier hunt.

Actually, I have had situations this year and others where small game hunters have spent the final two hours of the hunting day shooting up the woods within a hundred yards of my stand. By golly, I do believe that really does ruin the hunt. I have had hunters go strolling along a deer trail that I intended to watch. I think there is a pretty good chance that screwed that spot for the next few hours. I have come out from my stand at the end of the hunting day only to find someone set up a short distance away from my stand cutting off the expected direction of a deer's approach. You don't suppose that I am a bit pissed when that happens do you? Anybody that thinks that increased pressure especially directly in the area that you're trying to hunt does not mess up your opportunities simply does not understand the nature of deer. And yes, while I do get pretty upset by these interferences, given a few minutes to cool back down, I realize that the shoe could be on the other foot. If I were hunting squirrels instead of bowhunting for deer I would be right out there with them shooting up the woods (and probably getting a lot more meat for the freezer than I have so far this season .... lol). So it is all very unfortunate, and understandable. Also, when hunter population gets a bit dense, there are always opportunities that my activities might inadvertantly interfere with other hunters. But to think that I am not irritated when those kinds of things happen, is simply totally misunderstanding human behavior. I may quickly get over it, but the reality that my whole hunt has been wasted doesn't really go away.

Today, with land access being shut off more and more people are being crowded onto state land. I think it can be pretty much assumed that there will be a lot more cases of interferences. Don't be too surprised if these kinds of things upset someone who is trying to maximize the use of their hunting time.

As far as people patrolling their posted property, I have seen hunters literally "take-over" land that was generously left open. Absolutely that turned out to be a situation that was unsafe, and which turned prime hunting territory into useless, driven-out, ex-hunting spots. Also, if you want to see hunter behavior at it's worst, just open your land to the hunting free-for-all. But get used to never again being able to pre-plan your hunt, or count on any kind of patterning or credible scouting. Land gets posted for a reason, and the signs are generally a response to abuse of hospitality. So, people have to do what they have to do. Unless we are the ones paying the exorbitant price per acre of hunting land, or are the ones that pay the over-sized tax burdens that this state just recently voted to perpetuate, or are the ones who create and maintain improvements on the land, I think we should probably limit the level of whining that we do about those that do take on those burdens.

Sure, I miss those days when a posted sign was a rare oddity, but times change, population levels increase, farmers have subdivided their properties, and we have a considerablly more crowded world than we did then. You really have four choices. One is to buy your own land. The other is to hunt public land. Another choice is to find a friend that owns land. The last choice is to go to a pay-to-hunt property. Oh, and of course there is a fifth choice that a lot of hunters prefer and that is to simply disregard the rights of the landowner and trespass.

Doc

[wztirem]

I find it interesting that while property values on Long Island have declined nearly 30%, land values in many rural areas upstate within 100 miles of the metropolitan area have remained pretty much consistent.

[HHC1]

In regard to posting, there is another aspect that it is present due to a societal change over the years.....Liability. many landowner fear they will be held responsible for hunting or land-use related accidents that occur on their property.

[Doc]

In regard to posting, there is another aspect that it is present due to a societal change over the years.....Liability. many landowner fear they will be held responsible for hunting or land-use related accidents that occur on their property.

Yup! we had a dug well on the property that was in the woods about half way up the hill (about the last place you would look for such a thing). It was years before we ever discovered it. If there had been an incident of someone falling into that uncovered well, we would have played hell in court trying to prove that we didn't know of its existance and that we were not negligent in terms of maintaining a hazard on our property. While the liability laws have been modified, there are still a lot of things that you are still liable for. Unless you are a lawyer, I doubt there are too many landowners that know exactly what they all are. But victim's lawyers know them all.

Doc

[wztirem]

Doc,

You are right on in your post!

Access to land for the purpose of hunting is a problem to the everyday hunter who does not own his own land, have permission to hunt private property or can afford a lease to hunt. As such many hunters hunt state land.

Consider the state of the economy, disposable income for such endeavors as hunting has become problematic for many hunters. As such, State Lands in close proximity of the NY metropolitan area have become highly desirable to hunters who can lo longer afford the cost of an upstate hotel and all its amenities. As you know areas upstate where public land is available to hunt no longer receive the influx of hunters as in years past.

For the past several years, opening day on State Lands which I hunt; has seen a large increase in hunter numbers. Many of these hunters are now one and done guys who can longer afford a hunting vacation or for that matter simply afford to hunt more than several days.

Opening day on State Land can resemble a free for all. Guys not seeing deer; begin drives, frustrated hunters start to walk the woods after a few hours and frustrate those hunters who have the patience to sit in one spot for the entire day. Deer are driven out onto private property which cannot be hunted.

I have been lucky the past several years to kill a deer on opening day on State land only because the areas which I set up in have been overlooked or discounted by other hunters. This will not last! It is getting to the point where opening day on State land can be a waste of ones time and effort where the proverbial hunter behind every tree is becoming a reality.

However, there is "good news";It is amazing to notice the drop off in hunters on State land after the opening weekend of the gun season. Late season action especially for ML'rs is pretty good! The deer usually return to their traditional haunts in search of food.

Looking at the overall picture of things, hunter numbers will continue to dwindle because of an aging hunter base, lack of land access, overcrowding on Public Lands, dissatisfaction amongst hunters, and the looming fee increase etc.

Crossbow Seasons, AR, one buck rules, increased seasons, generous bag limits, DMP's and other changes will /may only offer short term solutions to garner renewed interest amongst hunters who are on the cusp of giving up the sport altogether.

[sits in trees]

the original poster makes some good points...however there is more state land available to hunt in NY than ever before. i own land and enjoy hunting it, but i still head over to state land every year because where else can you hunt tens or even hundreds of thousands of acres of land.

i do have to say the original poster peeled the right banana when he stated how selfish hunters have become, you can get a belly full of that just visiting this forum

[WNYBuckHunter]

In not sure what state land you guys hunt but most of the state land out this way is empty. Even opening day feels like you are hunting private land anymore.

[Doewhacker]

In not sure what state land you guys hunt but most of the state land out this way is empty. Even opening day feels like you are hunting private land anymore.

Its the same over here too, we have been hitting a chunk of state land this year and have yet to see any one or even sign that any one else has hunted it and its not that big of a chunk of land. Its kinda nice like sits said to stretch the legs.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The city folk are the ones paying taxes and using zero services....

Really? seems to me there are more per capita dollars sent to the cities than the cities send out. so what services are you talking about that the cities use "zero" of?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The State land by our camp gets some opening weekeknd pressure, but after that we hardly hear any shooting there and it is sizable land. we swing over late season and push some areas back to our property and never see anyone. Hunter sign in the woods are very uncommon. I bet the land around the city does get hammered though.