Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Lawdwaz]

How do those naturally done skulls look, any pics?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Have you done any reading on what QDM is? Not how some selectively practice parts of it but the entire concept?

I think thats just it...A Concept..Its a feel good reason for some to justify that they are trying to make their land the best place to kill a trophy buck. They throw in some words here and there to cover their butt's but when it comes down to it they are still trying to hold and kill a trophy buck.

[Five Seasons]

Here's a 1 1/2 year old 8 point. I've seen fawns on my property with 2-3" spikes in the fall.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421071182.959616.jpg

I Never said a 11/2 couldn't have spikes...Mr B had 2 1/2 yr. Old run head long in to his truck piercing the body...it sported 12 " daggers with over 2 1/2" flat bases...but we have had fawns here and down at camp with 4" spikes.

ARs are not perfect there will always be exceptions, but they do succeed in including the majority of yearlings.

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[Nomad]

I hunt a 3,000 acre farm where we have self imposed AR's , many land owners around us are on board as well, so we control a several miles with a few breaks in between . This is a pic of our last year end meeting and a FEW recent mounts.

That said I feel ARs should be up to the hunter.

[SteveB]

ARs are not perfect there will always be exceptions, but they do succeed in including the majority of yearlings.

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Would only protect about 40% in 7J/7H.

60% would be targeted.

[phade]

Would only protect about 40% in 7J/7H.

60% would be targeted.

 

Be careful, they'll start lobbing out 4 pts a side, ha.

[SteveB]

Whitetails Inc tried that a few years ago combined with a spread restriction.

Goal was to save all 2.5 and under.

They are defunct.  

[phade]

Whitetails Inc tried that a few years ago combined with a spread restriction.

Goal was to save all 2.5 and under.

They are defunct.  

 

That was before this new initiative in the DEC plan, though. Scary thought.

[NYBuckHunter27]

I've killed a few yearling 8 pointers in Ny, they're pretty common.

unless your being sarcastic, you must of been inside a fence....

[JoeHunter]

Have you done any reading on what QDM is? Not how some selectively practice parts of it but the entire concept?

Yes sir. I was a member of QDMA for a few years. Read all the magazines. The QDMA folks do support good habitat development, but I still think the overarching goal is Antler size.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

unless your being sarcastic, you must of been inside a fence....

Why? I have seen them every year since I moved out to Region 8

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes sir. I was a member of QDMA for a few years. Read all the magazines. The QDMA folks do support good habitat development, but I still think the overarching goal is Antler size.

I don't see that. I see the larger racks as a byproduct of a more mature deer.

 

And equal or more important goal to someone that wants a full freezer could be the larger body size and more meat as well.

 

Take a look at this 1.5 taken the same day, on the same property as the 3.5/4.5 (Never jaw aged it). They are hung from the exact same height.

 

[JoeHunter]

I don't see that. I see the larger racks as a byproduct of a more mature deer.

 

And equal or more important goal to someone that wants a full freezer could be the larger body size and more meat as well.

 

Take a look at this 1.5 taken the same day, on the same property as the 3.5/4.5 (Never jaw aged it). They are hung from the exact same height.

 

Comparison.jpg

Perhaps, but you can not tell me the motivation of ARs is more meat in the freezer. It COULD be a side affect the the bottom line desire in ARs is more wall-hangers.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Perhaps, but you can not tell me the motivation of ARs is more meat in the freezer. It COULD be a side affect the the bottom line desire in ARs is more wall-hangers.

Mandatory AR's and QDM are not the same thing. I commented to you based on your QDM comments.

[JoeHunter]

QDM has differant aspects. Habitat being one of the better, but QDM is also about wall-hangers.

[dbHunterNY]

Why? I have seen them every year since I moved out to Region 8

 

yea i'll back this.... I've only seen a couple 8's that were most likely 1.5 years old from my observations.  more common to see 6 pointers here with a 7pointer here and there.  definitely not abnormal to see a basket racked yearling.

[growalot]

 

unless your being sarcastic, you must of been inside a fence....

 

[NYBuckHunter27]

Why? I have seen them every year since I moved out to Region 8

Im in region 8 in an area with pretty good agriculture, and i think a yearling 4pt is more reasonable than 8pt, but if so than the genetics are better here than i thought... 

[NYBuckHunter27]

yea i'll back this.... I've only seen a couple 8's that were most likely 1.5 years old from my observations.  more common to see 6 pointers here with a 7pointer here and there.  definitely not abnormal to see a basket racked yearling.

keyword though is most likely, everyone is on here throwing out ages like they are biologists. some people don't realize what it takes for a buck to grow 100 inches let alone 140-150 in NYS. Am i not crazy to say that a 120 inch 8pt here in NY is probably a 3 to 4 year old deer?

[ncountry]

keyword though is most likely, everyone is on here throwing out ages like they are biologists. some people don't realize what it takes for a buck to grow 100 inches let alone 140-150 in NYS. Am i not crazy to say that a 120 inch 8pt here in NY is probably a 3 to 4 year old deer?

 

Fairly certain most of my 100-120" deer averaged 2.5 years old. Based on teeth and weight ..  I would think that a large % of 2.5 year old NY bucks have 100" of antlers..

 

 

I am not an expert or biologist though. jmo

[dbHunterNY]

QDM has differant aspects. Habitat being one of the better, but QDM is also about wall-hangers.

 

You being a past, short term, QDMA member just means you get some aspects of it and knowledge.  I haven't been apart of QDMA for too long but involved in QDM for longer.  FourSeasons uses QDM on his deer farm to help bucks make the most of there selectively developed genetics.  many everyday deer hunters use QDM to get bigger antlers where they hunt, outside a fence.  others use QDM to hold more deer within the land they hunt.  11,000+ acre co-op I'm a coordinator for is mostly about balancing the herd with little focus on "wall hangers".  mindsets have advocated letting every doe walk and shooting bucks no matter the age.  we had a boom in population but now seeing numbers going way down.  almost all bucks got shot off every year leaving almost nothing to breed doe.  we've got fawns with bright white spots in late September.  fawn recruitment/survival from year to year isn't good.  woods are bare and taking heavy abuse whether mature timber or not.  so the area is now using voluntary QDM with ARs to get the herd back in check and let the habitat recover.  with us being rifle, our current plan, and with the current mentality of the hunting majority the bucks aren't living to see 3.5 yrs old and won't anytime soon unless landowners go above and beyond.

you can say QDM can be about big antlers but to continuously imply that big antlers is the main focus of QDM is just not true.  True and basic QDM goals are met when a healthy balanced herd that's in check with its habitat and sustained with predation (human or other animals) and other natural causes of death.  QDM is not QDMA and QDM beyond what I said is whatever you choose to make it to be to meet your goals.

[phade]

keyword though is most likely, everyone is on here throwing out ages like they are biologists. some people don't realize what it takes for a buck to grow 100 inches let alone 140-150 in NYS. Am i not crazy to say that a 120 inch 8pt here in NY is probably a 3 to 4 year old deer?

 

I have a 12 point 1.5 y/o on the wall and quite a few 8 pt 1.5s.

 

Several 2.5s that tape out between 100 and 120", too.

 

I'm in wNY. Such possibilities tend to shrink as one moves east into the capital area. Soil quality, birth date, and available food/shelter impact it all. wNY soil in spots is pretty darn high quality due to the glacial deposits.

[dbHunterNY]

keyword though is most likely, everyone is on here throwing out ages like they are biologists. some people don't realize what it takes for a buck to grow 100 inches let alone 140-150 in NYS. Am i not crazy to say that a 120 inch 8pt here in NY is probably a 3 to 4 year old deer?

 

I don't disagree with the last 2/3 of what you said and understand where you're coming from.  I've heard some crazy and ridiculous deer "facts" trying to learn all I can about this stuff.  I've also seen harvested and aged 4.5 year old deer go well past 150".  I don't speak for others but I say "most likely" not based on a half ass idea.  I've learned a lot on how to age deer on the hoof from sound sources.  also I tend to send pictures off to others, trusted biologists included, that give me second opinions.  not all biologists can age a deer and not all people who aren't biologists are just throwing out guesses into the wind.  my statement was based on aging harvested aged deer and aging on the hoof with trail camera photos and field sightings, both by me and others.  if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and true professionals tell you it's a duck... then damn me to hell, but I think it's a duck.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't disagree with the last 2/3 of what you said and understand where you're coming from.  I've heard some crazy and ridiculous deer "facts" trying to learn all I can about this stuff.  I've also seen harvested and aged 4.5 year old deer go well past 150".  I don't speak for others but I say "most likely" not based on a half ass idea.  I've learned a lot on how to age deer on the hoof from sound sources.  also I tend to send pictures off to others, trusted biologists included, that give me second opinions.  not all biologists can age a deer and not all people who aren't biologists are just throwing out guesses into the wind.  my statement was based on aging harvested aged deer and aging on the hoof with trail camera photos and field sightings, both by me and others.  if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and true professionals tell you it's a duck... then damn me to hell, but I think it's a duck.

and as Phade pointed out, it can vary widely by area due to the factors he mentioned.

[Cory]

all for antler restrictions ive been saying it for years. but shortening the season i dont like. what i would like too see is crossbow use during all of archery then one week before regular gun season have a muzzeloader season with restrictions such as no inline muzzeloaders or scopes. Thats what colorado does and i like it.