Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Doc]

I prefer the spread and beam AR. 10" spread or 13" beam length.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite as fast as I used to be, and the damn things won't hold still while I run up with that tape measure.

 

Also, that perfect broadside bow shot doesn't really give you much of a look at antler spread. I guess all that idea of concealment would have to go by the wayside while you yell at them to get them to look in your direction. Gee that sort of thing is something I try to avoid when I am bowhunting.

[Doc]

WHOAAAAAA SEA BISCUIT!

 

I just re-read the current issue (12/26) of the New York Outdoor News. Can you please tell me where this information is? I didn't see it the first time through, or the second. The next issue is the end of this week.

My January 9 issue came yesterday, and yes they do talk about POTENTIAL changes. They are in the process of sending out 7000, 11 page surveys to randomly selected license holders. They apparently have developed a new decision-making process that turns it into a popularity contest.....lol.

 

Anyway, the survey includes hunter opinions on:

 

1    Mandatory AR for all of bow season, through the first week of firearms season.

 

2    A one buck harvest limit.

 

3    A shortening of the firearms season by 1 week in the southern zone and 2 weeks in the Northern Zone.

 

4    An active promotion of a voluntary AR

 

5    No changes at all

 

And yes, they have yet another funky subdivision scheme (WMU aggregates) that will be in addition to all the other regulation subdivisions (Regions and WMUs) to determine where any rules changes will apply. So get ready to sharpen up your map reading skills some more....lol.

 

But it certainly is a bit premature to say that there will be statewide AR or any of all the other regulations that hunters are so eager to strap themselves with.

 

You know I wonder how eager all these people who are in favor of regulating the sport to death would be if all of a sudden, life circumstances forced them to move to certain areas of the Adirondacks or Catskills or other parts of the state where antlerless permits are scarce and maybe the deer too. Maybe all this stuff wouldn't sound quite as good anymore. Yeah, I know ..... look out for number one and the heck with those that aren't as fortunate. That's the typical thinking. We all think that things are the same all over the state .... right?

 

[phade]

Does anyone have a link to the actual publication? I would like to read it if available, thanks.

the webaite might have it Friday. Or you could subscribe. For the cost, its a pretty good value.

[Doc]

the webaite might have it Friday. Or you could subscribe. For the cost, its a pretty good value.

Or $2.50 at any news stand or magazine rack.

[phade]

Or $2.50 at any news stand or magazine rack.

Not the same issue...very few outlets sell them. Those that do...sell an issue thats combined and isnt the same as the biweekly edition. basically, its a combo of two issues with some stories left out and thus not nearly as timely.

[First-light]

My January 9 issue came yesterday, and yes they do talk about POTENTIAL changes. They are in the process of sending out 7000, 11 page surveys to randomly selected license holders. They apparently have developed a new decision-making process that turns it into a popularity contest.....lol.

 

Anyway, the survey includes hunter opinions on:

 

1    Mandatory AR for all of bow season, through the first week of firearms season.

 

2    A one buck harvest limit.

 

3    A shortening of the firearms season by 1 week in the southern zone and 2 weeks in the Northern Zone.

 

4    An active promotion of a voluntary AR

 

5    No changes at all

 

And yes, they have yet another funky subdivision scheme (WMU aggregates) that will be in addition to all the other regulation subdivisions (Regions and WMUs) to determine where any rules changes will apply. So get ready to sharpen up your map reading skills some more....lol.

 

But it certainly is a bit premature to say that there will be statewide AR or any of all the other regulations that hunters are so eager to strap themselves with.

 

You know I wonder how eager all these people who are in favor of regulating the sport to death would be if all of a sudden, life circumstances forced them to move to certain areas of the Adirondacks or Catskills or other parts of the state where antlerless permits are scarce and maybe the deer too. Maybe all this stuff wouldn't sound quite as good anymore. Yeah, I know ..... look out for number one and the heck with those that aren't as fortunate. That's the typical thinking. We all think that things are the same all over the state .... right?

Thanks for posting Doc. 

I think we all have talked about, debated, a shorter season and a 1 buck rule. To me that really wouldn't hurt me too much. There would be a lot of should of and could of in bow season but was holding out for a bigger buck at gun. Also if you shoot that nice buck at bow season there goes that oh so special opening morning hunt. You could still be out there but only to shoot a doe. I guess that is some of the down side. AR's they can keep, not interested at all.

[bg1063]

Hey thanks I will just subscribe, I live in NYC, its not the most hunter-friendly part of NY and Outdoor Magazines, especially those involved with hunting are few and far between with availability.  I already had some people threaten my life because of a bear I took this year.  

[JFB]

JFB..Please show me where the DEC ever declared their entire goal was to take 11/2 yr. Old deer ...of either sex?..enlighten me.

Also please tell me when THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION was mandated to base THIS state's conservation issues solely on out of state tourists needs?....Perhaps the DEC should be scraped and they can make it's replacement be THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL TOURISM.....Then all environmental issues can be based solely on the state's financial gain in tourism

 

DEC has data and graphs showing their model is designed to basically create buck harvest of roughly 1.5yr old. I've also heard Kip Adams (who is a biologist) discuss this same thing. I'm human and it's possible my understanding was wrong the many times I've seen and heard it, but I don't think so. 

 

Not really sure I follow the tourism part of your post. My point was that perhaps the state is recognizing declining sales and revenue under the current system... so maybe changes are a way to hope to generate more popularity and more money. Many states economies get nice boosts because of out of state tourism. It's like the new 'discover NY' TV adds where they spotlight NY's fantastic fishing. People come from all over the world to fish our salmon and our bass lakes are also becoming some of the best in the country. That generates revenue. Just goes to show what is possible by enhancing a natural resource (remember, words like "possible" and "perhaps" mean I'm giving an opinion, not stating fact). 

[The_Field_Ager]

Now don't be a member of the media and only use part of a quote. 

 

Here's what I said, "I don't judge anyone for why they hunt (and know you're not saying I did). Like religion or politics I hate when people believe that their way is the only way and preach it, and do so in a self-righteous , judgemental fashion. "

 

By the way, I am a member of the media and I look for that kind of stuff. 

 

 

Again, your full quote is simply a personal value judgement (utilizing robust and emotive adjectives) based on what you don't like. Hate is a very strong emotion to manifest when 'judgmental' people are airing their opinions as protected under law.

 

Words like 'self righteous' and 'Judgmental' are often used by the left to shut down debate or smokescreen an opposing view, and they generally conceal (barley) strongly held biases and dislikes. I spend a good deal of my day unpacking and commenting on media bias and the use of language.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Papist

[Four Season Whitetail's]

My January 9 issue came yesterday, and yes they do talk about POTENTIAL changes. They are in the process of sending out 7000, 11 page surveys to randomly selected license holders. They apparently have developed a new decision-making process that turns it into a popularity contest.....lol.

 

Anyway, the survey includes hunter opinions on:

 

1    Mandatory AR for all of bow season, through the first week of firearms season.

 

2    A one buck harvest limit.

 

3    A shortening of the firearms season by 1 week in the southern zone and 2 weeks in the Northern Zone.

 

4    An active promotion of a voluntary AR

 

5    No changes at all

 

And yes, they have yet another funky subdivision scheme (WMU aggregates) that will be in addition to all the other regulation subdivisions (Regions and WMUs) to determine where any rules changes will apply. So get ready to sharpen up your map reading skills some more....lol.

 

But it certainly is a bit premature to say that there will be statewide AR or any of all the other regulations that hunters are so eager to strap themselves with.

 

You know I wonder how eager all these people who are in favor of regulating the sport to death would be if all of a sudden, life circumstances forced them to move to certain areas of the Adirondacks or Catskills or other parts of the state where antlerless permits are scarce and maybe the deer too. Maybe all this stuff wouldn't sound quite as good anymore. Yeah, I know ..... look out for number one and the heck with those that aren't as fortunate. That's the typical thinking. We all think that things are the same all over the state .... right?

Your right but be reading their wording they said there is very little chance of no change and t believe there would be more vote for Ar and 1 buck rule then maybe the shorter season. But what i relly believe is. That its does not matter how those 7000 reports come back with, They have a plan and mindset and its already decided what will change, They are just sending 7000 feel good reports so some fool hunters think their opinions matter.  They Dont Matter!

[growalot]

I do know who Kip Adims is as would anyone that knows anything about QDM would. Though I do not know that he is or has ever worked FOR the NYSDEC......he's based in PA and educated in NH if I recall. Now regardless, you never used the words "perhaps" nor " possible " in the following statement...I would like to actually see the graphs and models though...

 

 

I wondered very similarly. Suddenly they care when their formerly their entire goad was to keep average take at a measly 1.5yr?

 

Ps ...I just looked that up my bad ...He works for the NH division of wild life and was educated in PA and NH I correct my self..though didn't see any mention of NYS in there ...hhhmmmm

Edited January 7, 2015 by growalot

[JFB]

I do know who Kip Adims is as would anyone that knows anything about QDM would. Though I do not know that he is or has ever worked FOR the NYSDEC......he's based in PA and educated in NH if I recall. Now regardless, you never used the words "perhaps" nor " possible " in the following statement...I would like to actually see the graphs and models though...

 

 

Ps ...I just looked that up my bad ...He works for the NH division of wild life and was educated in PA and NH I correct my self..though didn't see any mention of NYS in there ...hhhmmmm

 

Clearly you are more interested in word games and capitalizing words rather than getting the point. Much like I never said Kip Adams ever worked "FOR" anyone. If you can't comprehend my posts, my apologies. 

[Lawdwaz]

An "11 page survey, which was mailed to 7,000 randomly selected big-game license holders" .

 

I can't imagine the time and money that that has/will cost.  Hundreds of man hours to come up with a survey, mail it out then HOPE like hell they get filled out then sent back in.  Process them and review the results.

 

They (DEC) already knows what they are going to do...................

[upstate]

Again, your full quote is simply a personal value judgement (utilizing robust and emotive adjectives) based on what you don't like. Hate is a very strong emotion to manifest when 'judgmental' people are airing their opinions as protected under law.

 

Words like 'self righteous' and 'Judgmental' are often used by the left to shut down debate or smokescreen an opposing view, and they generally conceal (barley) strongly held biases and dislikes. I spend a good deal of my day unpacking and commenting on media bias and the use of language.

 

so, in your judgement I lean to the left? Laughable.  We don't know each other now do we? 

 

Hate is a very strong word but I won't change my opinion.  Don't force your opinions don't my throat and judge me when I disagree. 

 

Over regulating deer hunting in a state that has varying deer populations is what will push a 35 year hunter to stay inside, this way you can all get those big trophy while dodging doe with your pick ups on the way to your tree stand. 

[Lawdwaz]

Hey thanks I will just subscribe

 

Good move. 

 

It is a great publication, if I get one or two articles per issue that interest me I'm satisfied.  They have their finger on the pulse of the State regarding hunting, fishing & trapping more so than anybody else, that I can see.

 

You'll enjoy it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I do know who Kip Adims is as would anyone that knows anything about QDM would. Though I do not know that he is or has ever worked FOR the NYSDEC......he's based in PA and educated in NH if I recall. Now regardless, you never used the words "perhaps" nor " possible " in the following statement...I would like to actually see the graphs and models though...

 

 

Ps ...I just looked that up my bad ...He works for the NH division of wild life and was educated in PA and NH I correct my self..though didn't see any mention of NYS in there ...hhhmmmm

 

Kip used to work for NH Fish and Game. He currently lives in PA and works for the QDMA.

[phade]

DEC has data and graphs showing their model is designed to basically create buck harvest of roughly 1.5yr old. I've also heard Kip Adams (who is a biologist) discuss this same thing. I'm human and it's possible my understanding was wrong the many times I've seen and heard it, but I don't think so. 

 

Not really sure I follow the tourism part of your post. My point was that perhaps the state is recognizing declining sales and revenue under the current system... so maybe changes are a way to hope to generate more popularity and more money. Many states economies get nice boosts because of out of state tourism. It's like the new 'discover NY' TV adds where they spotlight NY's fantastic fishing. People come from all over the world to fish our salmon and our bass lakes are also becoming some of the best in the country. That generates revenue. Just goes to show what is possible by enhancing a natural resource (remember, words like "possible" and "perhaps" mean I'm giving an opinion, not stating fact). 

 

That's kind of misleading. Short of explicitly reducing the ability to take 1.5s, such a statement could be made about any state model. Just as many states that have AR or OBR, don't have AR or OBR. That's spin language being used imo.

 

At the end of the day, if there's no rule outlawing the take of 1.5s, the hunters are the variable that cannot be calculated into a model. They pull the trigger. This goes back to educate vs. legislate.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My January 9 issue came yesterday, and yes they do talk about POTENTIAL changes. They are in the process of sending out 7000, 11 page surveys to randomly selected license holders. They apparently have developed a new decision-making process that turns it into a popularity contest.....lol.

 

Anyway, the survey includes hunter opinions on:

 

1    Mandatory AR for all of bow season, through the first week of firearms season.

 

2    A one buck harvest limit.

 

3    A shortening of the firearms season by 1 week in the southern zone and 2 weeks in the Northern Zone.

 

4    An active promotion of a voluntary AR

 

5    No changes at all

 

And yes, they have yet another funky subdivision scheme (WMU aggregates) that will be in addition to all the other regulation subdivisions (Regions and WMUs) to determine where any rules changes will apply. So get ready to sharpen up your map reading skills some more....lol.

 

But it certainly is a bit premature to say that there will be statewide AR or any of all the other regulations that hunters are so eager to strap themselves with.

 

You know I wonder how eager all these people who are in favor of regulating the sport to death would be if all of a sudden, life circumstances forced them to move to certain areas of the Adirondacks or Catskills or other parts of the state where antlerless permits are scarce and maybe the deer too. Maybe all this stuff wouldn't sound quite as good anymore. Yeah, I know ..... look out for number one and the heck with those that aren't as fortunate. That's the typical thinking. We all think that things are the same all over the state .... right?

 

Thanks for the list Doc.

 

Remember guys, this article was not written by the DEC, so wording is obligatory at this point. We will have to wait and see what the DEC actually puts out there. The way I look at it, this is the next round of the DEC's deer management program, as the current 5 year plan runs out in 2016. If you guys remember back a few years, they did this same thing, spitballed a bunch of ideas, sent surveys, got those back, had a public comment period with regional townhall style meetings, and then put their plan together. Some ideas were included, others were not.

 

I really wish they would conduct these surveys to all hunters, through a short questionnaire each year when you buy your license.

 

From that list, I would support 2,3,4. I dont see the point in carving up the state into more zone or units or whatever, there are already WMUs, Regions and zones, but thats not a huge deal. I highly doubt we will see ARs, and even though I might support it if done right, I dont see the shortening of the seasons happening either. Just my take on it.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I enjoy the seasons too much to support #3. I would for 2 and 4 though. This does seem like the same process that they used a few years back. Must be Cornell wanted some more funds...lol. Didn't they do the last survey?

[Lawdwaz]

I wonder what the numbers are regarding hunters that kill two bucks a year? 

 

How about the hunters that kill no bucks?

 

On this site, how many guys or gals killed two bucks this year?

 

Is the killing of two bucks really a problem?  Show me.................

 

 

[jjb4900]

Thanks for the list Doc.

 

Remember guys, this article was not written by the DEC, so wording is obligatory at this point. We will have to wait and see what the DEC actually puts out there. The way I look at it, this is the next round of the DEC's deer management program, as the current 5 year plan runs out in 2016. If you guys remember back a few years, they did this same thing, spitballed a bunch of ideas, sent surveys, got those back, had a public comment period with regional townhall style meetings, and then put their plan together. Some ideas were included, others were not.

 

I really wish they would conduct these surveys to all hunters, through a short questionnaire each year when you buy your license.

 

From that list, I would support 2,3,4. I dont see the point in carving up the state into more zone or units or whatever, there are already WMUs, Regions and zones, but thats not a huge deal. I highly doubt we will see ARs, and even though I might support it if done right, I dont see the shortening of the seasons happening either. Just my take on it.

 

I agree 100% about giving ALL hunters the opportunity to participate in the survey, sending out only 7000 questionnaires to randomly selected hunters, in no way guarantees they'd be getting a fair mixture of ideas..............I know everyone is welcome to attend the open meetings, but we all know that's not possible. I wrote several emails regarding my opposition to AR's prior to us getting them, but I never got any type of response in return, so who knows how much weight an outside response from a single person even has.

[jjb4900]

I wonder what the numbers are regarding hunters that kill two bucks a year? 

 

How about the hunters that kill no bucks?

 

On this site, how many guys or gals killed two bucks this year?

 

Is the killing of two bucks really a problem?  Show me.................

killing two bucks a year is no more of a problem than someone killing a little spike or 4pt.......

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I wonder what the numbers are regarding hunters that kill two bucks a year? 

 

How about the hunters that kill no bucks?

 

On this site, how many guys or gals killed two bucks this year?

 

Is the killing of two bucks really a problem?  Show me.................

I've probably done it a dozen times in 32 seasons. None in the last 5 years since I have decided to let the smaller ones walk and I could have easily the last 3 years.

 

I don't believe the "records" would show it happens as much as it rally does, especially in areas with few or no doe permits. I believe it is way underestimated the amount that get placed on others tags.

[phade]

I wonder what the numbers are regarding hunters that kill two bucks a year? 

 

How about the hunters that kill no bucks?

 

On this site, how many guys or gals killed two bucks this year?

 

Is the killing of two bucks really a problem?  Show me.................

 

It's not about killing two bucks at all, that's the thing many people don't seem to grasp with OBR. 5k hunters in NY take a second buck on average. Statistically miniscule.

 

What it does is change the cultural thinking of hunters while still giving them authority to choose any size buck. Alot of hunters whack the first buck and then "hold out for a biggun." Most times the biggun never materializes and all that's left is a 1.5 dead. OBR tends to hold many hunters back from shooting that first buck they see in the stand and hunters often end up making sure the buck they get is what they really want because that's all their going to get that season. It's worked well in Ohio and Kentucky. Sure, I always like a second buck tag opp, but when staring down the barrel of AR, OBR jumps out as a pretty good way to age the bucks in the herd without taking away the right to shoot any buck, you just can't shoot two, lol.

[Lawdwaz]

It's not about killing two bucks at all, that's the thing many people don't seem to grasp with OBR. 5k hunters in NY take a second buck on average. Statistically miniscule.

 

What it does is change the cultural thinking of hunters while still giving them authority to choose any size buck. Alot of hunters whack the first buck and then "hold out for a biggun." Most times the biggun never materializes and all that's left is a 1.5 dead. OBR tends to hold many hunters back from shooting that first buck they see in the stand and hunters often end up making sure the buck they get is what they really want because that's all their going to get that season. It's worked well in Ohio and Kentucky. Sure, I always like a second buck tag opp, but when staring down the barrel of AR, OBR jumps out as a pretty good way to age the bucks in the herd without taking away the right to shoot any buck, you just can't shoot two, lol.

 

Tell me more about Ohio and Kentucky...........When did they make the changes?  How are they similar to NYS?

 

What does "worked well" mean and in whose eyes has it worked well?