EPA's Wood-Burning Stove Ban Has Chilling Consequences For Many Rural People

[jjb4900]

You all believe the bible and never met Jesus right? 

well that's quite an assumption.....I never met the Easter Bunny either, but know I get to look for colored eggs on Easter, at least there's a little proof of his existence.

Edited February 5, 2015 by jjb4900

[Five Seasons]

Remember the ozone layer wasn't a debate. Im sure the response is that this is a photoshop but what the heck.

[virgil]

Belo, you're in the vortex.

[jjb4900]

Remember the ozone layer wasn't a debate. Im sure the response is that this is a photoshop but what the heck. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423165021.048370.jpg

I have no doubt that all the crap they are trying to, and have done away with is bad for people and or the environment......it pretty much defies logic to even attempt to say it's good for, or not harming in one way or another, and I don't even need a big ole' diploma on my wall to figger that out.

Edited February 5, 2015 by jjb4900

[nyantler]

while I don't or can't doubt your knowledge of the things of which you speak, were you even alive or even remotely old enough to have played a part in when they banned leaded gasoline, R22 or CFCs?

You took the words right out of my mouth... LOL

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The efficiency issues with the new refrigerants have absolutely hurt the environment. Global warming has gotten worse... If it's real of course. Honeywell is currently working on low gwp refrigerants. The ozone layer protects us. Without it we die. It's that black and white. There is nothing fake about it. The imagery was real.

Do you not believe that oil and gas can also skew data? They did it in the early 1900s with leaded gas. Pay anyone enough and he will tell the public what you want them to.

I work for the largest industrial manufacturer in the world. I do not benefit from regulations. But I do believe in science. Baby Jesus isn't going to cure my type 1 Diabeties, but my insulin pump will keep me alive. I thank God for putting smart men and woman on this earth with the sense and reasoning to protect us and to invent these modern marvels.

Agree with all of that. I do believe there is a warming trend on the earth. I question the extent which man is speeding it up. I believe from what I have read that it is cyclical. After all I bet if we could interview a few woolly mammoths, they would attest to a significant global warming. I am a bit older than you but I remember growing up and the buzz of an impending cooling, to the level of another possible mini ice age. We are a world of "Chicken Little Syndrome" and with so many conflicting studies and reports it is difficult for me to get behind any new save the world legislation. I have seen too many knee jerk reactions that have consequences that the short sighted implementers didn't anticipate.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Mr VJP]

Quote:  Pay anyone enough and he will tell the public what you want them to.

 

That's exactly what we are trying to tell you Belo.

 

[Five Seasons]

Belo, you're in the vortex.

This is approaching the "homosexuality is a sin" debate I got sucked into in the Mississippi hunting forum.

I have no doubt that all the crap they are trying to, and have done away with is bad for people and or the environment......it pretty much defies logic to even attempt to say it's good for, or not harming in one way or another, and I don't even need a big ole' diploma on my wall to figger that out.

So why are you arguing it? I'm done arguing. Argue with NASA. They're certainly a bunch of dummies http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/ozone_recovering.html

Agree with all of that. I do believe there is a warming trend on the earth. I question the extent which man is speeding it up. I believe from what I have read that it is cyclical. After all I bet if we could interview a few woolly mammoths, they would attest to a significant global warming. I am a bit older than you but I remember growing up and the buzz of an impending cooling, to the level of another possible mini ice age. We are a world of "Chicken Little Syndrome" and with so many conflicting studies and reports it is difficult for me to get behind any new save the world legislation. I have seen too many knee jerk reactions that have consequences that the short sighted implementers didn't anticipate.

Honestly you'll find most level headed scientist will agree that it is certainly cyclical. The concern is that we seem to be speeding it up. Don't get me wrong, some tree huggers have absolutely stretched the truth. Both sides have their nut jobs. Heck while I was in engineering school in the early 2000's the professors were split on the subject. But over the years it was hard to deny it any longer. I believe we are selfish. We feel we own this earth and were the center of it and what we do to it will be our kids problem. I'd hate for my kids kids to look back at us and wonder why politics got in the way when we had a chance to prevent it?

[nyantler]

Are you freaking kidding me right now? We banned cfc's. The ozone healed itself. Your ignorance is astonishing. Did you not notice how hard or expensive R22 is?

For goodness sake the replacements to cfc's were invented in honeywell's buffalo research lab. I worked with those brilliant men and woman for 5 years... But hey I guess you know it all.

Are you in denial that Lake Erie and the ohio river caught on fire? Was love canal a fake too?

I said I wouldn't come back in here but denial of the ozone layer is just a whole new low for you.

The ozone healed itself huh? You do realize that many other countries still use R22 and CFC's including two of the largest countries, China and Russia... but somehow you believe the discontinued use by the US saved the day and healed the entire ozone layer by itself...

Love Canal was a chemical dumping spot... that's something you could touch, feel and see... you didn't have to take anyone's word for it. The ozone layer was the crisis 20 years ago, now we have global warming (aka climate change) to take it's place to justify the nonsense of the EPA.

The government is all worried about the air we breath, but does nothing to stop things like GMO's and the use of chemicals in our food ... All government agencies are nothing more than governmental Bulls--t designed to give crony friends jobs and nothing more. None of their science can be trusted!!

[jjb4900]

So why are you arguing it? I'm done arguing. Argue with NASA. They're certainly a bunch of dummies http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/ozone_recovering.html

I wasn't arguing, I just asked the question as to whether or not you were around when those things were hot topics.

[Five Seasons]

The ozone healed itself huh? You do realize that many other countries still use R22 and CFC's including two of the largest countries, China and Russia... but somehow you believe the discontinued use by the US saved the day and healed the entire ozone layer by itself...

Love Canal was a chemical dumping spot... that's something you could touch, feel and see... you didn't have to take anyone's word for it. The ozone layer was the crisis 20 years ago, now we have global warming (aka climate change) to take it's place to justify the nonsense of the EPA.

The government is all worried about the air we breath, but does nothing to stop things like GMO's and the use of chemicals in our food ... All government agencies are nothing more than governmental Bulls--t designed to give crony friends jobs and nothing more. None of their science can be trusted!!

The ozone layer is healing itself. But I digress... If you don't believe NASA then I won't change your mind.

I'm done here.

[Merlot]

It's part of the EPA's sinister plan to make us all walk and ride bikes to get around and stay warm. "We don't need no stinking fossil fuel"...they say. God help us..

[philoshop]

If you're still watching Belo:

A number of people on this forum have been around long enough to see the changes the government has gone through over the past decade or so with regard to regulation, and compare them to the previous 2, 3, 4 or 5 decades of regulatory practice at the federal level. The change in underlying intent is what concerns many of us. The intent has become less benevolent.

 

I admire anyone who speaks with conviction, but that conviction always needs to be tempered with a firm foothold in the reality of the situation. The intent may indeed be honorable, but sometimes it's only on the surface, when the reality of the cause/effect relationship has been completely overlooked. During my post-graduate studies (in architecture BTW) I was often asked to defend my position from several different points of view, often diametrically opposed, and often in the same sitting, and it was mentally and emotionally exhausting and terrifying. But I learned a lot from it because I had to see every position pretty much at the same time.

[thphm]

When we would have family gatherings when I was young mom's and pop's were not small ( both grand mothers had 8 children each) they lived 15 -  20 minutes apart by car. They would talk about years gone by when they would walk the railroad tracks and pick up coal that fell off of the the trains and bring it home to heat the house or put in the cook stove. Back then the steam engines were run on coal.

[upstatehunter]

Does the law define the phrase "wood burning stove"

[bkln]

"Save the world" BS....???? The Earth is 4.54 Billion years old and its doing just fine, we are not even a tiny blip on Earth's radar screen with our 2K-4K years history. The Earth was here before us, it is here now (doing just fine) and it will be here when we are all long gone. Will it kill us in the process? probably, remember ice age and asteroids? That will happen again, so chill, buckle up and enjoy the warmth from the woodstove.... :-)

Or buy it now so you can be grandfathered when it becomes a law....

[Five Seasons]

If you're still watching Belo:

A number of people on this forum have been around long enough to see the changes the government has gone through over the past decade or so with regard to regulation, and compare them to the previous 2, 3, 4 or 5 decades of regulatory practice at the federal level. The change in underlying intent is what concerns many of us. The intent has become less benevolent.

I admire anyone who speaks with conviction, but that conviction always needs to be tempered with a firm foothold in the reality of the situation. The intent may indeed be honorable, but sometimes it's only on the surface, when the reality of the cause/effect relationship has been completely overlooked. During my post-graduate studies (in architecture BTW) I was often asked to defend my position from several different points of view, often diametrically opposed, and often in the same sitting, and it was mentally and emotionally exhausting and terrifying. But I learned a lot from it because I had to see every position pretty much at the same time.

I don't have any issues and agree that regulations have gone over the top. Heck I make a living trying to interpret them. I've already stated this.

My issue is the ignorance and regurgitation of out of date science refuting the ozone layer depletion and global warming. I didn't believe in global warming for a long while. I feel some would just rather refuse to admit they are wrong then just accept it. For gods sakes it's the same thing that pisses us off about the anti-gun group.

We used to paint our houses with leaded paint, we insulated with asbestos, we used benzene to wash our hands. All of these things worked well, but the risk did not outweigh the reward. As technology progresses we need to advance and improve.

[Five Seasons]

"Save the world" BS....???? The Earth is 4.54 Billion years old and its doing just fine, we are not even a tiny blip on Earth's radar screen with our 2K-4K years history. The Earth was here before us, it is here now (doing just fine) and it will be here when we are all long gone. Will it kill us in the process? probably, remember ice age and asteroids? That will happen again, so chill, buckle up and enjoy the warmth from the woodstove.... :-)

Or buy it now so you can be grandfathered when it becomes a law....

Didn't realize we had another scientist here with great facts. But I'll take "your" word for it that the earth is ok.

[jjb4900]

Didn't realize we had another scientist here with great facts. But I'll take "your" word for it that the earth is ok.

yeah, I can't imagine the environment is better off today than it was 200 years ago........

[upstatehunter]

Corn stove, problem solved

[ELMER J. FUDD]

You guys are panicking over nothing. It doesn't involve existing stoves that don't meet the requirements. The way it looks to me is these requirements were set in 1988, it's just not legal to make stoves that are less efficient than the 1988 regulations. I bought mine on the last day of 2010 or 2011 and got that 30% or up to $1500 tax credit. It's rated at 2.6 grams per hour. These stoves destroy the old ones in efficiency. The only reason not would be when burning unseasoned wood.

Re: ozone layer & global warming - lmao funny to see the tinfoil hats on the other side for once.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

If your stove is on this list, you're good. If not, you are still good, just an evil polluter.

certifiedwood.pdf

Edited February 7, 2015 by ELMER J. FUDD

[sits in trees]

BIG OIL wants you to heat with oil. I will repeat, BIG OIL wants you to heat with oil. No other fuel sources will be tolerate, that includes wood, coal, oh yes and any of that green energy stuff like wind or solar.

So shut up and support your BIG OIL companies and continue to heat your home with OIL, its the God Damned American Way!

[Mr VJP]

Why would the leaders of this Leftist EPA push an agenda that supports big oil?  They hate big oil and are doing everything they can to put them all out of business.

 

[wildcat junkie]

"VJP" is an accronym for Village idiot Just Posted

Edited February 7, 2015 by wildcat junkie