Landlocked Property Access?

[BizCT]

I haven't done any research on New York State laws, but am curious about the NY laws regarding access to landlocked property.  Reason I ask is because I came across property for sale that is dirt cheap. Its cheap because it can't be built on and is landlocked. It does not border a road, rather it borders other land and powerlines. I assume the powerline property is town or county or state land. I haven't looked at the land yet for hunting purposes, but was told by the realtor to park on side of the road and walk down the powerline property until I reach the property for sale. If the land looks good for hunting and can be had for a couple of grand, I am wondering what the next steps are regarding legal access to this land.  I have reached out to county clerk regarding access but haven't heard back yet.

 

Thanks in advance.

[HectorBuckBuster]

You need to find out who owns the power line property first. As the power company may just have a easement on the property, so you may be trespassing by using the power lines to get to property that is land locked.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The power line probably has a Right of Way (ROW) for the utility only. I would get  parcel information and copies of deed and tax map from the clerk. There may very well be a ROW with the parcel you are looking at but it isn't guaranteed. You may be able to purchase one from one of the bordering landowners though.

 

If it is truly land locked you have no right to cross others landowners property unless they grant it. If they hunt it is probably theirs by default since the your current owner can't get in there.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[BizCT]

Thanks guys. Like I said, I reached out to the county clerk for additional info. Based on my research the current owner picked up this property through a tax auction less than 2 years ago. I assume the current owner got it really cheap and is trying to flip it for a few a grand.

[phade]

If it is legit landlocked, I don't think NY has the ROW mandates...as Culver said, it could literally be locked without an aerial assault.

[wildcat junkie]

I'm not even sure it can be (legally) sold to someone that doesn't own adjoining property.

I had 20 acres that was landlocked. I bought it because my property bordered it & I eventually sold it to another neighbor that had land adjacent to it.

That might be the reason it's so cheap. Realtors are no better than used car salesman when it comes to ethics.

Edited May 7, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[kpkot]

If its really cheap just buy a helicopter with the money you save?

[BizCT]

The heli is a good idea, but not sure if they make electric ones so I can get in/out quietly?

[BizCT]

Here's a map. The red line shows where I was told to park on the road and walk down powerlines. Again, I haven't been here yet so for all I know its not worth it anyway.

 

 

map.pdf

[stoneam2006]

The guy I bought my house from kept the land out back (luckily I get to do whatever on it) but it is 100 acres fully landlocked with no way to get in....when he sold the 4 houses he owned (all right in a row) he kept a 30 foot row in between mine and the next one....idk if it was required by the bank or what but know there was no reason to as he sold to mostly friends and family

[Nomad]

Out west its common to have one square miles blocks of BLM land right in the center of private land. There the "easement by necessity " was the law , although I have ran into ranchers who thought otherwise. But having a lawyer as your hunting partner is a plus at times like that, except when they still threaten to shoot you.......

I left a message with my nephew ,another lawyer here in NY to see NYS law.

But I had friends with a cottage on Black Lake that was land locked , they not only had access but the other cottage who's land we crossed had to leave it open ie no fence etc.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Larry302

[Nomad]

Ok lawyer called back yes you have to be able to access your land in NYS via easement by necessity . But he would not pay one dollar for such land....

Now I got lost in all the legal talk , but he would want to see evidentiary proof of an existing easement. If you had to establish one plan on spending a ton of cash.

Name all adjoining land owners sue them for the easement , you show best route based upon distance , topography and so forth . He went on for several more minutes but youget the point.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Larry302

[BizCT]

Ok lawyer called back yes you have to be able to access your land in NYS via easement by necessity . But he would not pay one dollar for such land....

Now I got lost in all the legal talk , but he would want to see evidentiary proof of an existing easement. If you had to establish one plan on spending a ton of cash.

Name all adjoining land owners sue them for the easement , you show best route based upon distance , topography and so forth . He went on for several more minutes but youget the point.

All makes sense. Really appreciate the effort!! First step is to see if this land looks good for hunting and then go from there.

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[Water Rat]

I know exactly where that property is. If I'm not mistaken there is a right of way and I believe there is a small pond on the property. There are a lot of houses that surround the property. I don't think I would shoot a firearm there but you could get away with shooting a bow.

[Nomad]

All makes sense. Really appreciate the effort!! First step is to see if this land looks good for hunting and then go from there.

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No problem, one phone call ! He does a lot of land deals and also hunts , sometimes I pay him in treestands..... Edited May 8, 2015 by Larry302

[nyslowhand]

Looked into a land-locked property years ago. Seemed ideal for hunting, price was right and had transferable ROW in the deed. Problem was the ROW was 1000' long to get to this isolated piece of land. Old road was overgrown & washed out, so I became responsible for repairing or improving it financially. Basically you're responsible for improving someone else's land simply to gain access to your parcel at your expense. May also be at the mercy of the land owner who is providing the ROW as to exactally what you can do with ROW. IE; cutting trees, drainage, etc. Typically these land-locked properties also come with a lot of history with neighbors trespassing on what they perceive as seemingly abandoned land or ancient permissions to access property. Best advice is to have a real estate attorney do a deed search looking for ROW rights that are transferable, before any purchase offer. As you can see, these cheap land-locked properties can turn into a not so great bargain & a legal nightmare. Not to say there aren't any land-locked properties available that wouldn't have all the above issues! BTW - Not always, but generally, any property that can be picked-up for a song at a county tax sale has issues of some form.

[BizCT]

I know exactly where that property is. If I'm not mistaken there is a right of way and I believe there is a small pond on the property. There are a lot of houses that surround the property. I don't think I would shoot a firearm there but you could get away with shooting a bow.

No water on the property from what I can tell. What town do you think it is?

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[dbHunterNY]

no land locked property is sold without a right of way and i believe the utility company owns the land under the lines.  the agreement is that you can still work and use the land pending it doesn't interfere with their accessing lines.  you can access it under the power lines but yea there has to be a right of way somewhere going through someone's adjacent property.  it should be in the deed or public record maybe.

[growalot]

 

i believe the utility company owns the land under the lines.

I do not believe so...the power company is now in the process of cutting under the power lines in our area...they hired an independent company to do the work this time...That company showed up at our door a few months ago to inform us of their impending arrival and asked permission to fully cut down one of our maples directly under the power line..explained that they would be cutting and stacking the wood for us and I asked for them to dump a load or two of chips in my lower field ...It makes great mulch/soil in 2-3 years They also asked for the name of owner next door because of the red pines growing into the power lines...I told him good luck...for the power company asked to cut them down last time and he said NO...they had to "trim"  around the lines. I said no to the maple last time...said just head it off...well that made it grow like mad ,much faster. I said drop the entire thing this time. I prefer not getting electrocuted will mowing and trimming around it...the pole guide wire is also in it.

Edited May 12, 2015 by growalot

[growalot]

BTW a TITLE search($$$) ..which should always be done should show any legal agreements concerning the ROW and whether said ROW has a time contingency placed on it. For land lock parcels...it would have to be very inexpensive with the width being over 1000 feet. to protect for others along the border developing and you losing the ability to shoot fire arms...We have a parcel that has a ROW way...thankfully it's been long for gotten about and is only 500ft long on one side. it is completely grown over and 50ft wide.

[dbHunterNY]

I do not believe so...the power company is now in the process of cutting under the power lines in our area...they hired an independent company to do the work this time...That company showed up at our door a few months ago to inform us of their impending arrival and asked permission to fully cut down one of our maples directly under the power line..explained that they would be cutting and stacking the wood for us and I asked for them to dump a load or two of chips in my lower field ...It makes great mulch/soil in 2-3 years They also asked for the name of owner next door because of the red pines growing into the power lines...I told him good luck...for the power company asked to cut them down last time and he said NO...they had to "trim"  around the lines. I said no to the maple last time...said just head it off...well that made it grow like mad ,much faster. I said drop the entire thing this time. I prefer not getting electrocuted will mowing and trimming around it...the pole guide wire is also in it.

 

yea I'm not exactly sure.  last I thought it was the power company that owned under the lines and you've got a right of use, but can't impede access or build structure or housing under it.  it maybe the other way around.  i'll have to check.  I think nobody ever knows with certainty because it's most likely written up slightly different in each title/deed.  Also types of easement laws kick-in due to land under lines being used for same purpose for 10 years or more.  It always the power company doing whatever possible to keep the land owner happy, however when push comes to shove their lines take over any "ownership" you've got.  my family owns a few properties with power lines going through them.  also have to consider a tree on the boarder is jointly owned.  if it's base is close but not within the boundary "under the lines" but grows out they need your permission to do anything more than trim around the lines because it's your tree.

 

i'll maybe look into it this weekend for a better answer.

[growalot]

Sure fire answer...look who's paying for the taxes on said land

[Merlot]

Contact the utility company. Ask about the land on which the tower structures sit as well as the property you are interested in. Grab a tower number off the nearest tower and check in with the local utility engineer. It's a long shot, but you might be able to legally gain access to the property as long as overhead line clearances are maintained and you double lock the gate you would need to install.

.05% chance of success, but noting ventured, nothing gained. Long shot at best.

[moog5050]

- Utility companies often have easements but do not own the land

- if there is no ROW, the owner can establish a prescriptive easement, but the cost to do so may outweigh the cost savings on the property.

 

I suspect there is some access easement.  A title search will confirm but you are probably looking at $500 or more for the search.

[wildcat junkie]

yea I'm not exactly sure. last I thought it was the power company that owned under the lines and you've got a right of use, but can't impede access or build structure or housing under it. it maybe the other way around. i'll have to check. I think nobody ever knows with certainty because it's most likely written up slightly different in each title/deed. Also types of easement laws kick-in due to land under lines being used for same purpose for 10 years or more. It always the power company doing whatever possible to keep the land owner happy, however when push comes to shove their lines take over any "ownership" you've got. my family owns a few properties with power lines going through them. also have to consider a tree on the boarder is jointly owned. if it's base is close but not within the boundary "under the lines" but grows out they need your permission to do anything more than trim around the lines because it's your tree.

i'll maybe look into it this weekend for a better answer.

I have a power line across my property & it is an easement only. The power company does NOT own the land & I can do whatever I want under the lines, as long as I do not impede access for the Power company. I have built a small structure under those lines, a 25' X 100' flight pen. That still allows adequate access for maintenance according to them & the power company has done fence row trimming next to the pen on one occasion.

One year, the yahoos they contracted to to do ROW maintenance drove over my hayfield in areas not under the ROW. I made a phone call & the contractors now are required to notify me when they need access for routine maintenance.

I also have had issues W/A-holes on snowmobiles thinking they can run across my land on the power line. My neighbors and I have had the State Police handle the issue. It is trespassing.

Edited May 12, 2015 by wildcat junkie