So I wonder how that 2 week kill only doe is working out

[growalot]

now it should not be difficult for them to retrieve the numbers for these areas...do you think they'll publish them, or try to tie them in with the late bow/ML #'s?

Edited October 17, 2015 by growalot

[Doc]

now it should not be difficult for them to retrieve the numbers for these areas...do you think they'll publish them, or try to tie them in with the late bow/ML #'s?

By the time they get done massaging those numbers with special calculated factors, and constants, and other associated B.S. statistical magic, any correlation to real doe takes will be strictly coincidental. Don't forget we have to establish and apply a reporting rate too .... lol. About the only thing I am reasonably sure of is that in the end it will be declared that the bowhunters did not take the mysterious secret number of does, and an early muzzleloader season is imperative to have any chance of saving even a shred of the habitat in those WMUs. Oh wait a minute .... the plan is to do two years of this charade before declaring the urgent need for the early muzzleloader season.

[chas0218]

FYI Cooley road is in the town of Canandaigua. We own land on that road , the wife's family has since the 1,800s . Not to many dressed 180 pound 2 1/2s .

Btw what farm did you hunt ? There are only a few , I know most of them .

I can't remember the name they are a huge dairy farm. Give me a minute it will come back to me haha.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Okay .... so now the season in my WMU has finally started. Yesterday was great weather .... a bit breezy, but the temp and lack of rain was great. Unfortunately no deer showed up, but at least I didn't have to face the possibility of spooking bucks that I had no legal right to shoot.

 

It was pretty much a perfect opening day wasnt it? My plan to keep the pressure off of the farm paid off, and I had the 4 year old buck Im after this year in front of myself and my daughter for over 2 hours, along with 10 different does. Unfortunately he didnt offer a shot, but it was a ton of fun to watch him run does, fight a smaller buck and tear up a scrape. If he hadnt shown up, Id probably have taken one of the does if I had a chance.

[Nomad]

I can't remember the name they are a huge dairy farm. Give me a minute it will come back to me haha.

John Knoppe. Hardly a tree left on his land now all cleared.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Larry302

[Jmny]

Wow, poor farmers being subjected to to the wrath of some hunters. The state government to my limited knowledge doesn't pay farmers for crop lost. Believe that is a national policy that was voted on by congress? Now, do you think the purpose of this policy has Something to do with the security of this country? The amount of food this country produces not only allows the USA,to be self sufficient, but feeds numerous other countries. Now what kind or retention of farmers would we have, if the federal government didn't have some form of blanket in place to offset when farmers crops were poor due to a condition beyond their control? How many would be forced into bankruptcy? Maybe those individals that seem to have a vehement disregard for the plight of the farmers should acquaint themselves with the cost of farming equipment.

If your the type of person that has difficult comprehending let's make it easier. You decide to build a large garden on your property to offset the cost of having a family. Of course you can do all of this by hand or small tools.

Now a group of STATE owned deer come onto your property and destroy your garden. Well your going to have to reassess your budget. But this is only on a small scale, no one counts on you to feed the rest of the country. Nor do you have the financial liability of carrying loans on all your expensive farm equipment.

The dear problem is only one concern for the farmer. Then their is the weather. To much rain, not enough rain, early warm spell, or a late cold spell. They all can hurt your production and earnings. Now even before you can start your farming endeavor, you need to purchase a good plot of land or lease some. And by the numbers of deer hunters on this forum complaining about state land and owners of farms that don't hunt, you would think the answer to their problems would be to purchase a 30-100 acre plot. Apparently they aren't in a financial position to do so.

So is it the compensation for crops or the commonly referred to nuisance permits that irk a small percentage of hunters? Hunters believe the farmers are killing all the good bucks in the area.

Fact, farmers must substantiate ( proof) of their loss. Dec evaluates herd size. Done easily at night as they feed on the farms. There are two important aspects of nuisance permits that farmers are given after justifying damages and overpopulation of resident herd. Those being they can only shoot DOE'S. And they can't be used in the hunting season. Usually the DEC give the farmers some DMP to utilize during season.

[DirtTime]

Well, that two weeks is over, and everyone lived through it. I guess now we wait and see what good or bad it did. Soley based on the members here, I say most just hunted anyway. Took some nice does to boot.

I am guessing the DEC will wait the whole season to "see" how this actually impacted the deer as a whole in NYS.

My huge issue is the DEC always conducts these tests or gather data mainly from Mid Central NY., Syracuse area. NY is a pretty big state, with a lot of very deer friendly land. Different terrain/habitat will yield different deer. At least from I have learned.

Anyway, the two weeks is over, lets see some dead deer pics and stories, over asking how the two week thing worked out right now. 

[greensider]

my guess is a lot of hunters stayed home and will be crying next year when its the first 3 weeks

[WNYBuckHunter]

my guess is a lot of hunters stayed home and will be crying next year when its the first 3 weeks

 

Again, you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

DEC put the program in place for 2 years as a trial. It will not change next year.

[growalot]

jmny...this is me being polite to the rest of the Forum and simply saying...having family that has a very large dairy operation and living in the middle of a very large and ever expanding dairy operation. With two others in the area..I'll bite my tognue on this one...

[The_Real_TCIII]

I tried to hunt 9F Friday but couldnt get to my spot. I hit 7 does with the truck on my way there and then got all sweaty wading through does on the way to the stand so I turned around and fought my through them back to my truck

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wow, poor farmers being subjected to to the wrath of some hunters. The state government to my limited knowledge doesn't pay farmers for crop lost. Believe that is a national policy that was voted on by congress? Now, do you think the purpose of this policy has Something to do with the security of this country? The amount of food this country produces not only allows the USA,to be self sufficient, but feeds numerous other countries. Now what kind or retention of farmers would we have, if the federal government didn't have some form of blanket in place to offset when farmers crops were poor due to a condition beyond their control? How many would be forced into bankruptcy? Maybe those individals that seem to have a vehement disregard for the plight of the farmers should acquaint themselves with the cost of farming equipment.

If your the type of person that has difficult comprehending let's make it easier. You decide to build a large garden on your property to offset the cost of having a family. Of course you can do all of this by hand or small tools.

Now a group of STATE owned deer come onto your property and destroy your garden. Well your going to have to reassess your budget. But this is only on a small scale, no one counts on you to feed the rest of the country. Nor do you have the financial liability of carrying loans on all your expensive farm equipment.

The dear problem is only one concern for the farmer. Then their is the weather. To much rain, not enough rain, early warm spell, or a late cold spell. They all can hurt your production and earnings. Now even before you can start your farming endeavor, you need to purchase a good plot of land or lease some. And by the numbers of deer hunters on this forum complaining about state land and owners of farms that don't hunt, you would think the answer to their problems would be to purchase a 30-100 acre plot. Apparently they aren't in a financial position to do so.

So is it the compensation for crops or the commonly referred to nuisance permits that irk a small percentage of hunters? Hunters believe the farmers are killing all the good bucks in the area.

Fact, farmers must substantiate ( proof) of their loss. Dec evaluates herd size. Done easily at night as they feed on the farms. There are two important aspects of nuisance permits that farmers are given after justifying damages and overpopulation of resident herd. Those being they can only shoot DOE'S. And they can't be used in the hunting season. Usually the DEC give the farmers some DMP to utilize during season.

Any other professions we as tax payers should underwrite to guarantee a living. income or profit? Tax payers should bare the liability?

 

 

Just an FYI concerning your comment in bold. You are wrong. There are nuisance permits given out that include antlered deer.

[growalot]

Culver...wouldn't be grand if in the construction field they were given subsidized weather insurance for the monies lost for rain/snow delays...high winds and lets not forget job site material theft...subsidized winter heating fuel ect..ect...Lets not talk about the ones operating in tornado and hurrican areas

[chas0218]

now it should not be difficult for them to retrieve the numbers for these areas...do you think they'll publish them, or try to tie them in with the late bow/ML #'s?

I am betting the latter of the 2.

[nyslowhand]

Certainly unofficial, but more reliable than coffee shop banter... Local deer processor in 8F said the tally as of 10/19 was about average of what previous years had been. Nothing more! Other than the idiot that tried to sneak a buck in (pre-10/17) and the DEC saw it on one of their visits. Duh..!!!!

 

Be prepared for the next population control phase in 2016, ML included in early bow season for over populated SZ regions with a does only period again.

[Jmny]

Wow. Let's think, are there any other professions,we as tax payers underwrite? How about law enforcement officers, fire fighters, teachers,counselors, and all other town,city,county, state employees. The IRS, There are so many individual occupations that we as taxpayers support.

You brought up an interesting point construction workers. Are we talking about these guys that work for a company that is supported by winning bids that are paid by the taxpayers? And how mAny of the construction workers do you know that actually are on unemployment roles for a large portion of the winter? I have known many that do over the years.

So why have you choose the farmer as the object of your frustrations? I know it isn't borne from the fact they have taken the risk(monetary investment)of purchasing the land,equipment to make a living. Maybe it's they own land that deer inhabit and you can't get permission to hunt??

How many of those reading this post have driven by a group of construction workers were a minority are working and the majority are watching the minority? But I realize that when they are actually working their job can be difficult and exhausting. It would be so easy to make the assumption that they were just making a living off the backs of hard-working tax payers, but to do so would be so shortsighted on my part.

Finally, if you believe the farmers have it that easy, become one. Summon up the courage and finances to take that tax payer backed occupation as yours. You can have it made as you believe they do.

Now there doe's come a time when certain farms become so large that they can take advantage of government assistance just like any other large corporation or union does. Remember greed is the biggest incentive.

[chas0218]

Wow. Let's think, are there any other professions,we as tax payers underwrite? How about law enforcement officers, fire fighters, teachers,counselors, and all other town,city,county, state employees. The IRS, There are so many individual occupations that we as taxpayers support.

You brought up an interesting point construction workers. Are we talking about these guys that work for a company that is supported by winning bids that are paid by the taxpayers? And how mAny of the construction workers do you know that actually are on unemployment roles for a large portion of the winter? I have known many that do over the years.

So why have you choose the farmer as the object of your frustrations? I know it isn't borne from the fact they have taken the risk(monetary investment)of purchasing the land,equipment to make a living. Maybe it's they own land that deer inhabit and you can't get permission to hunt??

How many of those reading this post have driven by a group of construction workers were a minority are working and the majority are watching the minority? But I realize that when they are actually working their job can be difficult and exhausting. It would be so easy to make the assumption that they were just making a living off the backs of hard-working tax payers, but to do so would be so shortsighted on my part.

Finally, if you believe the farmers have it that easy, become one. Summon up the courage and finances to take that tax payer backed occupation as yours. You can have it made as you believe they do.

Now there doe's come a time when certain farms become so large that they can take advantage of government assistance just like any other large corporation or union does. Remember greed is the biggest incentive.

I don't think anyone said the farmers have it easy or are blaming them I think they are blaming DEC. I mean the amount of money shelled out to farmers to in is the 10s of billion for subsidies. Not just NY that is nationally.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wow. Let's think, are there any other professions,we as tax payers underwrite? How about law enforcement officers, fire fighters, teachers,counselors, and all other town,city,county, state employees. The IRS, There are so many individual occupations that we as taxpayers support.

You brought up an interesting point construction workers. Are we talking about these guys that work for a company that is supported by winning bids that are paid by the taxpayers? And how mAny of the construction workers do you know that actually are on unemployment roles for a large portion of the winter? I have known many that do over the years.

So why have you choose the farmer as the object of your frustrations? I know it isn't borne from the fact they have taken the risk(monetary investment)of purchasing the land,equipment to make a living. Maybe it's they own land that deer inhabit and you can't get permission to hunt??

How many of those reading this post have driven by a group of construction workers were a minority are working and the majority are watching the minority? But I realize that when they are actually working their job can be difficult and exhausting. It would be so easy to make the assumption that they were just making a living off the backs of hard-working tax payers, but to do so would be so shortsighted on my part.

Finally, if you believe the farmers have it that easy, become one. Summon up the courage and finances to take that tax payer backed occupation as yours. You can have it made as you believe they do.

Now there doe's come a time when certain farms become so large that they can take advantage of government assistance just like any other large corporation or union does. Remember greed is the biggest incentive.

Kind of hard to have a discussion with you when you don't understand the difference between a subsidy and a tax payer funded service.  

[Jmny]

Interesting twist on your wording. Justifying your receipt of government assistance( monies)

What is a subsidy? A monetary assistance granted by the government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as BEING IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. So do you think the police,fire,city,town,county,state,federal employees,and farmers hold a job that is financed by TAXPAYER DOLLARS because it is regarded as BEING in the public interest? The difference is only a weekly/biweekly payment or a yearly payment.

By the way anyone that has referred to the DEC paying any farmer for lost/ damaged crops back it up with proof, reference to where it can be found.

As far as I'm able to comprehend any offset for low crop production for a number of reasons, is financially offset by the FEDERAL government.

The only thing the DEC can do for the farmers is,after verifying crop loss and overpopulation of dear herd issue DDP( deer damage permits). See DDP ( New York State, DEC.) As,stated earlier only for use in non season, are only suppose to be used to take doe. However if you accidentally shoot a buck, you now have to notify the DEC and fill out extensive paperwork. So, you won't receive a large fine when you mistakely shoot a buck. But the state will come to your farm, and take the antlers.

One must understand the following two points: the farmers don't hunt during the day with DDP's, that conflicts with work to maintain their farm and would be met with limited success. Most of the culling of the herd is done at night when the deer are causing damage to their crops and taken with rifles by head shots. The farmers usually don't have the time or energy to track wounded deer Most of the time it's either instead death or a miss.

The second point really addresses the use of DDP. If a farmer was to remove a buck he would only remove one deer from the next year's population. If he shoots a doe, he would remove two but more likely three deer the doe and fawn(s) from next year's population. Now if your suffering a monetary lost, which would you shoot? Also, if farmers weren't allowed to take DDP's we as hunters would be subject to an extended antlerless only bow season.

Instead of missing and moaning about the farmers, take the time to meet the farmers and offer to assist in something on their farm( something you might have experience or knowledge of) develops a relationship with the farmer where he,has,an opportunity to see your character, then maybe he will grant you the opportunity to hunt his land, thereby reducing the deer herd further. Check, you might even be invited to fill some DDP 's out of season.

Basically, rumors can be started VERY easily in this day of multi media, but verify the information reported as fact.

One other scenario, if the deer are owned by the state? Which is how the state justifys charging a fee to shoot hunt them, would the individual farmers be able to file lawsuits,against the state for deer damage and monetary lost? Probably cheaper to use the present system instead of retaining lawyers to represent the every DMP THOUGHOUT THE STATE.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So the Feds and not the state is paying the farmers. Got it. I thought it was the taxpayers. Glad you cleared that up.

 

I see you are in Greece. I hope that is Greece, NY and I would love to take you to a couple farms I know of that the rule they fill the nuisance tags is NOT a HEAD SHOT. instead it is gut shots so the deer in NOT recovered and the tag does not have to be used. I firmly believe that is one reason why it is difficult to get into some of the places on these permits. In the hands of you or me it would probably be a "one and done" use of the tag.

[Five Seasons]

Certainly unofficial, but more reliable than coffee shop banter... Local deer processor in 8F said the tally as of 10/19 was about average of what previous years had been. Nothing more! Other than the idiot that tried to sneak a buck in (pre-10/17) and the DEC saw it on one of their visits. Duh..!!!!

 

Be prepared for the next population control phase in 2016, ML included in early bow season for over populated SZ regions with a does only period again.

 

smiths?

[Danny]

They will never have an early muzzle loader season on long island

[Danny]

.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Danny