Antler restrictions success? ?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

...and neither will the majority of deer hunters in NY. This idea seems to be just the latest and greatest attempt at, so called, deer management since the conversion of "Quality" Deer Management to deer farming. Maybe we ought to get back to thinking about all aspects of whitetail management instead of concentrating on just bigger bucks, less doe, or bigger and better food plots and trail cams.

Sure we can do what the DEC wants done and just kill them all.   The discussion is about antlers and getting them bigger. Taking the gun out of the rut is the best way to do just that. I like how spoiled Ny hunters are and happy with some of the worst hunting in the country when it comes to top deer. Look at all the other states that have great hunting and you dont hear them whine about short seasons because they all kill great bucks because they are there.

And not to mention how land values are three times better and the average lease price is 30 to $60 bucks a acre.  2-3 month deer season is and always has been way to much. 

[G-Man]

Sure we can do what the DEC wants done and just kill them all. The discussion is about antlers and getting them bigger. Taking the gun out of the rut is the best way to do just that. I like how spoiled Ny hunters are and happy with some of the worst hunting in the country when it comes to top deer. Look at all the other states that have great hunting and you dont hear them whine about short seasons because they all kill great bucks because they are there.

And not to mention how land values are three times better and the average lease price is 30 to $60 bucks a acre. 2-3 month deer season is and always has been way to much.

I agree gun season if shortened will do more for the herd than anything especially when dec deer census numbers are all based on buck take.. all top states have short or split gun seasons.. nys.is the most stubborn state when it comes to its season.. they added 2 weeks to bow 1 year later put a youth hunt in second weekend and bowhunters are screaming how it will ruin and is ruining the season.. thing is they ne c er could hunt those first two weeks at all so getting 12 days extra to share 2 is a good trade but no one sees it that way.. and lime I said before there were more hunters for extended period of time when monday was an opening day.. now it's all weekend pressure...

[Larry]

Hey let’s cut 2 week out of the gun season at best you only have the potential of cutting the overall deer harvest by less than 20%. It would be less maybe a lot less, with a 2 week season hunting pressure will be more intense and adding 2 week to the bow season would cut in to that 20% even more. You may end up cutting the harvest by only 5%.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If its true what some believe on here that people are not after large bucks then there should not be a need for a 2-3 month season to just kill a deer. Any Deer to fill that tag. How long does it take?

 

Now for the truth for most and the ones looking for big bucks then that would come after a couple years of shorter seasons and no gun in the rut. Then it would not take long to fill the take either because they would be there to be had!

[chas0218]

Yes buy if you believe all the ar propaganda, bug bucks running everywhere is the feeling they try to tell.you will happen ,yet in rankings a non ar state is comparable to the ar state.. with in a deer or two entered in the books.. I would think you would never see ny in the top 25 anytime the way people push them, and pa is only the same with mandatory ar.. so all I can say is I'm glad nys hasn't gone to statewide ar's as it doesn't seem to be nessary as far as book bucks go..

Only reason we have big bucks (sad to call a deer in the 130" range big) in my area is because we practice AR on our property and most the neighboring properties do the same.

 

Wait you mean to tell me it works crazy concept right? Only way for them to get bigger is to pass the smaller ones (120" or less).

[Nomad]

I don't know much of the ins and outs of qdm and the like. The large farm I hunt and many surrounding though have a complex set of hunting rules ,kill as many does as you wish and only bucks wider then the ears, and that scale kinda slides a bit for bow..... and first timers get to shoot what they want , and "mistakes" seem to happen as well .

Here's what we got ( a small sample ), most of the trail cam ones were killed as well . And no.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Larry302

[moog5050]

Man that first buck is WIDE

[stoneam2006]

Uncle Larry is that you.....lol

Great looking bucks something is done right there for sure

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[growalot]

Lots of ideas ...but I see the one idea fairly ignored in all this restructuring talk being had...The DEC's education stance on what classifies an older buck.

So explain to me why the discussion and the pics being shown aren't being geared towards that. How many people read these threads that don't post?....How hard is it to just attempt to aid in a basically good plan,as opposed to thinking of ways to modify or change it before you see if it actually works.

 

NOW NOTICE I said basically GOOD plan...unlike the obvious bad doe harvest plan I have been trying to get them to see is wrong...in that the tags are not available at the right times....Whether they saw their error or not...still need doe tags at right times...

Edited May 23, 2016 by growalot

[DirtTime]

...and neither will the majority of deer hunters in NY. This idea seems to be just the latest and greatest attempt at, so called, deer management since the conversion of "Quality" Deer Management to deer farming. Maybe we ought to get back to thinking about all aspects of whitetail management instead of concentrating on just bigger bucks, less doe, or bigger and better food plots and trail cams.

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not everyone can plant food plots and not everyone uses trail cams. Why is everything pigeon holed into this category?

Some of us still use the ever faithful ( whether we kill a deer or not ) method of boots to ground, and deal with it if we don't tag out.

Many hunters are dealing with hunting state land. Some people forget that. 

[growalot]

I'm not sure what the state land comment means...I personally realize some have only state land...It's why even though I would love to hunt other places ,other than the private ones I have /permission for, I won't.  I find it not fair for me personally...Then there is the food plot comment...I have my feet to the ground ,I hunt checking signs I use my woodsman's skills...nearest food plot to where the swamp buck was shot was 3/4 of a mile away...What do food plots and cameras have to do with it. Those are some big generalization blanketing a whole lot of hunters....It would be akin to my stating we need to monitor all state land hunters because they are all trigger happy..We know that's not true.

 

The year I was able to kill just the donation 6pt and one doe  I had all that...they aren't some magical thing that GUARANTEES a dead deer...deer are always moving

[DirtTime]

I'm not sure what the state land comment means...I personally realize some have only state land..

You can't plant food plots on state land. Not being a jerk, but most people know that.

 

My point was, there are many hunters on this site that hunt state land and have to endure the laws of that public land.

There are also hunters who own land and can plant plots, and have trail cans going 24/7.

 

You can't keep leaving the state land hunters out. They are a big part of the hunters here in NY.

 

 

Sorry if you misinterpreted what I was saying growalot.

[Nomad]

The soil is good with lots of crops. But my point is something as simple as passing on the young ones , more or less can bring success as far as an older age class .

We have no over all master plan other than letting young bucks live . No ratio or deer per square mile , no one buck rule, don't know anyone with a " food plot " .I've hunted the ground 30 years and just doing this one thing has really changed things .

Edited May 23, 2016 by Larry302

[SteveB]

Larry - What is considered a young buck by the group?

[nyantler]

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not everyone can plant food plots and not everyone uses trail cams. Why is everything pigeon holed into this category?

Some of us still use the ever faithful ( whether we kill a deer or not ) method of boots to ground, and deal with it if we don't tag out.

Many hunters are dealing with hunting state land. Some people forget that. 

My greater point would be that... what hunters sometimes call deer management has nothing to do with managing overall deer herds... it's more of a cherry pick of the parts they would like to see managed... many hunters talk about antler restrictions and food plotting as if that is all that managing whitetails consist of... the same goes for one buck rules and shorter deer season ideas... narrow minded ideas that forget about all the aspects of overall deer management. Getting bigger bucks and more of them, if that is what we're talking about, is as simple as ... stop killing young bucks... not really rocket science... overall optimized deer management vs. the different NY habitats is a little closer to rocket science.

[Nomad]

Larry - What is considered a young buck by the group?

That's a good question. Some only shoot what they would mount, others anything wider then the ears ,so say 17 inches ( and that could be a 2 1/2 ) . Myself last year in bow I took a 17 inch wide 6 pt but a very solid body and a cake shot at 10 yards , then I passed a similar buck ( 8 pt 25 yards with my .270) the second day of gun , as I would only shoot much bigger for a second buck . We have no set rule other then try to,pass the young ones , so ideally that would be pass all up,to 3 1/2 and some would say those as well.

But there are a number of farms and hunters involved and nobody can force anything upon another farm , our farm , it's outside the ears , yet some only will shoot a buck they would mount . Some have monsters on the wall , and they go years sometimes between bucks . Others are after a certin one . Not me , in bow I don't mind hunting a lot and passing , but if it's a cake shot and what I feel is a good hunt , that first big enough buck is going down .

Although this year knowing what's there , and having a pile decent bucks in the basement ,I may hold out .

I change year to,year it seems..... Just a passing 1 1/2 and most 2 1/2 , banned driving and walking around , having areas off limit has made a big difference .

I don't read books about deer hunting or go to seminars , plant food plots, we just pass up.younger bucks and oddly enough they become older bucks .

[G-Man]

It just comes down to this... are you willing to not fill your tag because you want a certain sized deer... the answer for most will be no... Untill that mentality changes nothing done will have any broad effect..

Food plots are not the answer and I do not understand the anger at those that plant them.. deer move and most properties are small in ny 75 acres or less. So you just end up feeding the neighborhood deer.

Shortening gun season get a lot of resistance but it would have a huge effect on deer population and buck surviveability especially if not open during the rut.

A one buck rule that is so talked about.. at.least hearing it on this site many do not even get 1 so how many get 2? There is no data on how many hunters take 2, but as the saying goes 10% of the hunters take 90% of the game.

Hunter density is high in ny aND antler restriction 3 a side or 4 aside would high grade the herd with the legnth of our season.. you would quickly have monster 4 pt or 6 pt running around that are old mature deer.. as nearly all genetically better bucks would be shot as yearlings, spike would be common and all you would hear is all I see are spikes and 4 pts

[chas0218]

For me it isn't about filling the tag, how is that mentality any better than filling all your tags just because you can? Personally it is about the chase of that 1 deer that makes it all worth it. My trophy may not be the monster that makes record books but for where I hunt a trophy is a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 year old deer with a larger rack, not to mention the wife said I can't mount a deer smaller than my other 130" deer.

[LET EM GROW]

a young buck to me is anything 2.5 yrs and under.. ideally and technically a 3.5yr old buck is considered young in QDM.. i pass every 1.5 and 2.5, and alot of 3.5 yr old bucks, but not all. only for the fact that we have a good plan working on our hill.. "to only shoot what we would mount" that gives Most all younger deer a chance to live and grow. I cant speak for the other 1/3 of the properties around me that shoot anything brown.. they pay there license pay there taxes, work their full time or more than full time job and provide for their families.. so i dont blame them. Yea i would like them to pass the younger bucks and let them grow.. resulting in more "meat harvested per bullet/time spent" but thats their choice..

 

 

[gjs4]

My number one request to make NY a better deer hunting state- have actual and accurate data on deer populations and the take not the wet dream math formula that is currently embraced by those who market the numbers (and their actions) the most. Quality aging methods and stats would also be sweet to see the truth on. #2 cite the chit out of all the cheating scumbags out there (poachers, trespassers, tag borrowers, baiters, etc). 2b would be do away with the youth seasons but primarily for the cheating listed in 2. #3 survey all hunters and use that as the majority basis for hunting season delegations and feedback. No more select group stuff or the DEC knows so much more that they can't take your opinion.

At least those are me three at the moment.

The gun season is ridiculously long but it's timing and bag limits hurt the herd more than anything. Just my ideas thiugh

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[growalot]

Here's food for thought...For those guys/gals with the desire to fill the tag they paid for ....now have a shortened season for gun and they don't bow hunt....What do you suppose will happen...Brown down perhaps???

So how does that help exactly???

[Lawdwaz]

Here's food for thought...For those guys/gals with the desire to fill the tag they paid for ....now have a shortened season for gun and they don't bow hunt....What do you suppose will happen...Brown down perhaps???

So how does that help exactly???

 

Plenty of folks would be corking the first legal buck I'd bet.

[Lawdwaz]

Leave the seasons the way they are and promote VAR.

 

"Voluntary Antler Restrictions"

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Here's food for thought...For those guys/gals with the desire to fill the tag they paid for ....now have a shortened season for gun and they don't bow hunt....What do you suppose will happen...Brown down perhaps???

So how does that help exactly???

Those people shoot the first deer they can now anyways so i believe it would change nothing. They also would not have time to fill their wives and kids tags after they shoot their first one!

[growalot]

 

Those people shoot the first deer they can now anyways so i believe it would change nothing. They also would not have time to fill their wives and kids tags after they shoot their first one!

 

I know you want to believe that and I would have to agree with the part I highlighted...though not everyone that wants deer meat shoots the first buck they see...When they know they have some time and some doe around But ,and I'm one of these admittedly...If it came down to no meat and time running out...no doe to be seen or cooperating if a basket 6pt showed up I'd drop it. I hunt dang near every day from Oct through Nov...shots heard drop like a rock after the first 3 days. Then are  few there after. In relative terms each weekend after the first one is quite. Shorten the season and it would sound like one of the battles from a war movie the first week end. Guaranteed brown down would increase significantly...It's  just  how people think.