Rescinding antlerless in early bow in 8n

[Rockspek]

So am I reading it right that even though the 2016-2017 hunting guide magazine says antlerless only during early bow, the dec announced that it is rescinded and now I can bow hunt for an antlered deer in 8n in the early bow season?   If so I'm a little stoked since this will be my first bow season.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/107223.html

[2012_taco]

Thank God, I hated the doe only last year in 9F. I know a lot of guys went to southern tier just so they could take a buck.  I Hunt mostly 9f but I prefer to leave the does to go into heat, that brings the big guys out of hiding!

[The_Real_TCIII]

Thank God, I hated the doe only last year in 9F. I know a lot of guys went to southern tier just so they could take a buck.  I Hunt mostly 9f but I prefer to leave the does to go into heat, that brings the big guys out of hiding!

I have a great spot in 9f that I didn't hunt last year because of those rules. I shoot does there every year but I wasnt going to sit where I might have to let a shooter walk by

[G-Man]

You guys kill.me won't hunt a spot because a shooter might walk by.. do you remember when bow started Oct 15th? I look at the 2 extra weeks as a bonus and would hunt just to get out there and get one in the freezer.. 

Wait a few years till deer numbers are really out of wack and they put an early antlerless only muzzle loader or crossbow season in .. then the whining will really start..

[PREDATE]

Yes you are reading that right.
Personally it didn't put a hamper on my bow season at all. I might sit a few times in early/mid October, but generally I like to conserve my energy for hunting the rut (late October- early November). I don't like the idea of giving NYS an inch, but I'd like to see them bring back the Oct. 15th season opener. As it is now, by the time the rut rolls around, every yokel with a bow has had almost a month to spook every deer in the county. It's really no wonder why the deer go nocturnal.

[The_Real_TCIII]

You guys kill.me won't hunt a spot because a shooter might walk by.. do you remember when bow started Oct 15th? I look at the 2 extra weeks as a bonus and would hunt just to get out there and get one in the freezer.. 

Wait a few years till deer numbers are really out of wack and they put an early antlerless only muzzle loader or crossbow season in .. then the whining will really start..

I don't see the correlation. If I can hunt another spot where I'm allowed to shoot a buck I shouldn't, just to "do my part" in 9F? I do my part there, I shoot does there every year. If they want more taken stop making us wait until November to get additional tags.

[Doc]

13 hours ago, G-Man said:

.......Wait a few years till deer numbers are really out of wack and they put an early antlerless only muzzle loader or crossbow season in .. then the whining will really start..

You are absolutely right. In a few years the DEC will cram their muzzleloader season into bow season, but it will have nothing to do with whether bow hunters were able to bring doe numbers down or not. For at least a decade, the DEC has been aching to get any kind of firearms into bow season that they could, and have even been successful to some extent in doing so. Now they have concocted a scheme that justifies exactly that, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will push that scheme just as far as they can with or without the bowhunters humble submission.

I don't believe that the DEC thinks for a minute that bowhunters alone are able to control doe numbers. That is just their cover-story. And it appears that they are selling that story to some.

[IRL]

You guys kill.me won't hunt a spot because a shooter might walk by.. do you remember when bow started Oct 15th? I look at the 2 extra weeks as a bonus and would hunt just to get out there and get one in the freezer.. 

Wait a few years till deer numbers are really out of wack and they put an early antlerless only muzzle loader or crossbow season in .. then the whining will really start..

Agreed. NY has one of the longest deer seasons and up to 7 tags per hunter. Plus all the public land. The same people that complain about NYC influence on upstate also forget that NY has a northern zone with an early MZ season.


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[SteveB]

22 hours ago, Yellow Barn said:

Agreed. NY has one of the longest deer seasons and up to 7 tags per hunter. Plus all the public land. The same people that complain about NYC influence on upstate also forget that NY has a northern zone with an early MZ season.


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And what is the average hunter density sq/mile in the NZ compared to the SZ?

 

[IRL]

And what is the average hunter density sq/mile in the NZ compared to the SZ?

 

Google it. PA has a statewide early anterless MZ season as do other states. Many hunters in PA.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

23 hours ago, Yellow Barn said:

 and up to 7 tags per hunter. 

 

Actually if you get 2 signed over there can be a possible 9

[stoneam2006]

Actually if you get 2 signed over there can be a possible 9

And worse case scenario they could all be does

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[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Actually if you get 2 signed over there can be a possible 9

could be a lot more than that.  could get bonus DMPs for some units and keep filling them as long as to check them the previous one in to get the next.  outside of the over populated units a person can actually fill up to 2 DMAPs per application/group getting them that year.  for applications in over populated units you can fill 4 DMAPs per application per year. most people think it's a limit all together for that year anywhere in NYS and it's not. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 8/6/2016 at 3:47 PM, G-Man said:

You guys kill.me won't hunt a spot because a shooter might walk by.. do you remember when bow started Oct 15th? I look at the 2 extra weeks as a bonus and would hunt just to get out there and get one in the freezer.. 

Wait a few years till deer numbers are really out of wack and they put an early antlerless only muzzle loader or crossbow season in .. then the whining will really start..

Every time you hunt the area, you drop your chances at a mature buck.

 

Heres the real issue, a bow is not a good way to knock down doe numbers. You want the numbers knocked down, make 2 weeks of gun season antlerless only, or put an early September muzzleloader season in place with a couple of weeks gap between that and the bow opener.

[G-Man]

Bow can be very effective at controlling numbers, the choice of waiting for a buck is the concern. Ohio does control their number by archery that is apparent.. the question is how do you change hunter attitudes. Your chances at a mature buck are much better when bucks have to look for does. Not have their pick of 20.. 5 buck and 20 doe means bucks don't have to move to find doe, 5 buck and 3 doe and buck have to look and fight for right to breed.. that's an extreme example but my own experiences prove it to be true we see way more buck than we use to after we concentrated on doe harvest 1st.
The biggest problem I see is just hunter attitude in using a bow to get that 1st chance a big buck.. which is why many gun hunters also hate bowhunters.

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[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Bow can be very effective at controlling numbers, the choice of waiting for a buck is the concern. Ohio does control their number by archery that is apparent.. the question is how do you change hunter attitudes. Your chances at a mature buck are much better when bucks have to look for does. Not have their pick of 20.. 5 buck and 20 doe means bucks don't have to move to find doe, 5 buck and 3 doe and buck have to look and fight for right to breed.. that's an extreme example but my own experiences prove it to be true we see way more buck than we use to after we concentrated on doe harvest 1st.
The biggest problem I see is just hunter attitude in using a bow to get that 1st chance a big buck.. which is why many gun hunters also hate bowhunters.

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I know about buck to doe ratios, and why some gun only hunters have disdain for bow hunters, but thats not the subject here. The DEC choosing the most effective weapon to cut down on doe numbers is. If you have a goal such as this, and you are using the least effective means of attaining that goal, then you are doing it wrong.

[G-Man]

The area they need reduced is pretty urban the bow is the proper choice in that area, and hunters rejectedted it because they want a chance for buck same two weeks, so jow Dec will have to add a season to try and control numbers.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

could be a lot more than that.  could get bonus DMPs for some units and keep filling them as long as to check them the previous one in to get the next.  outside of the over populated units a person can actually fill up to 2 DMAPs per application/group getting them that year.  for applications in over populated units you can fill 4 DMAPs per application per year. most people think it's a limit all together for that year anywhere in NYS and it's not. 

not in the units that were being discussed. but in a few they others they could

[Buckmaster7600]

Early season is not the time to try to take down numbers. A late December early Jan antler less firearms season would be the most effective time. And if Dec is really serious about it allow baiting for that season in the units that need the most control. A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

This also should be very well accepted by all hunters because your not screwing up anyone's season.


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[stubby68]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Every time you hunt the area, you drop your chances at a mature buck.

 

Heres the real issue, a bow is not a good way to knock down doe numbers. You want the numbers knocked down, make 2 weeks of gun season antlerless only, or put an early September muzzleloader season in place with a couple of weeks gap between that and the bow opener.

wait a minute ! It is ok to take 2 weeks of gun hunting time and make it doe only but not ok to do the same thing with bow hunting? Why take the shortest season and do that. Bow season is much longer and hence more time to spare the weeks in. Mind you I would rather have all doe tags and couldn't care less about getting a buck. I hunt to fill my freezer and nothing more. I pay for the tags so I should be given plenty of opertunity to fill them. Taking 2 weeks from gun and makeing it doe only gives little time to fill my buck tag. Leaveing me with a paid for yet unfilled tag. 2 weeksfrom bow still leaves 6 weeks to fill tags. Funny how it is ok to short the gun hunters and not the bow.

                     Would you have a problem if when the gave bow hunters the extra 2 weeks from the 15 to the 1 they had said it would be doe only from the get go. Bow hunters have been given plenty of opertunitys to take more doe yet they refuse to. If bows are  so ineffactive for takeing deer like you say then why use them at all?

                     Everyone on here knows how I feel about bow hunters. I am also not the only one who has my feelings about them either. G-man pointed out the reasons why I and others have these feelings and he is spot on. Bow huntes feel october is there time to kill big bucks not hunt deer. That has been proven by the many statements of not hunting untill or unless they can kill a buck if they see it.  Then when they kill there buck they are done untill gun when they kill another buck then done again.

 

         Point is that with the right attitude bow hunters can very well help to keep the doe numbers down in some areas yet they refuse to. And now you say let the gun hunters do it I want my bucks. Wow

[phade]

This thread is 50% of the reason why hunting is doomed long-term.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Early season is not the time to try to take down numbers. A late December early Jan antler less firearms season would be the most effective time. And if Dec is really serious about it allow baiting for that season in the units that need the most control. A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

This also should be very well accepted by all hunters because your not screwing up anyone's season.


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If you shoot her in September or October she isn't there to get bred and carry those. 1-3 fawns. Having a preference one way or another is fine but that logic won't hold. 

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

not in the units that were being discussed. but in a few they others they could

didn't realize they didn't do the bonus DMPs for all areas they implemented the doe only in.  I'm pretty sure the 4 DMAPs per hunter per application applies though.

[Buckmaster7600]

If you shoot her in September or October she isn't there to get bred and carry those. 1-3 fawns. Having a preference one way or another is fine but that logic won't hold. 

You are correct but a buck has spent the time with her to breed her. If she's dead he will be with another doe. I wish I had the article that I read not long ago about a study in a few Midwest states and they found the most effective time to kill does for population control was after the rut for those reasons.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

The area they need reduced is pretty urban the bow is the proper choice in that area, and hunters rejectedted it because they want a chance for buck same two weeks, so jow Dec will have to add a season to try and control numbers.

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8H is urban? Really?