This 4 point not legal in the NY antler restricted zones.

[Grizz1219]

So if they make the rule 4 pt on 1 side or better OR wider than 16" inside spread??? 

[Rack Attack]

18 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

So if they make the rule 4 pt on 1 side or better OR wider than 16" inside spread??? 

That would be a good proposal.  I'm pretty sure there are other states that do something similar to this.

[growalot]

Gag..gag.gag...cough..cough..Cough...yak..yak...phew sorry guys...I was trying to clear my throat of the words that were shoved in my mouth...Can any of you tell me when I have often used the term casual hunter on this site...or said Everyone is issued either or tags...   yak yak... Why should this surprise me ? From people insisting on adding points to another person's buck so they feel good. Why not add words to their mouths as well...lol

[WNYBuckHunter]

51 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

See that's the mentality I'll never understand.  Why would someone choose to shoot that buck with 1.5 inch points, even if they had a DMP?  The intent of DMP's is to take female deer to help with population control, not so someone can choose to shoot a micro buck just to say they shot a buck, or because "I'm going to shoot it cause it's legal to".  I just don't get it.

Maybe because some people have 1 or 2 days to hunt in the season and want some meat. Maybe they shoot them thinking they are doe. There are multiple reasons why they get shot. Before I really knew how to tell the difference between button bucks and does, I shot quite a few thinking they were does.

[WNYBuckHunter]

51 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

So if they make the rule 4 pt on 1 side or better OR wider than 16" inside spread??? 

Wouldnt that still allow 1 1/2s with 4 points on a side to be taken?

[Grizz1219]

25 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Wouldnt that still allow 1 1/2s with 4 points on a side to be taken?

Yup... I was only taking on the pic in this post... not the other issues... LOL

[Buckmaster7600]

They base it on a percentage that they figure arent reported. Its kind of a guessing game, Which is why mandatory reporting of all tags (filled or unfilled) should be put in place. No report, no tags the next season.

Exactly why I said they have no clue what the percentages are.


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[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Under the proposed rules for 8N, just down the road from our farm, this yearling would be legal

 

But this 3 1/2 wouldnt be

 

Before you guys say anything, both of these deer have most likely set foot in 8N, and we have deer that meet these categories every single year.Its not an oddity or anything like that. 

looks like bucks someone might be happy with in an of the 3 neighboring WMU's that don't have restrictions.  if i was in one of them i'd hate to see that little guy get thumped but i'd probably be more preoccupied with shooting that last brute.  imagine if second one didn't leave 8N and grew a bunch of trash the following year?  hopefully neither one would get hit by a car after you got trail cam photos of them.  that'd be a bummer.  heck if that didn't happen and they stayed in 8N, they could make some youth hunter really happy.

[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But if the antler is short enough to be hidden easily by the ear, mistaken identity happens easily, especially by more casual hunters.

if they don't have a buck tag in their pocket no worries use a doe permit.  if they have a buck tag i'd like to think they fill it with the little guy.  no harm no foul.

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Grizz1219 said:

So if they make the rule 4 pt on 1 side or better OR wider than 16" inside spread??? 

16" inside spread is a lot.... typically see around 13.5" inside or 15" outside spread have the outside of antlers almost to the ear tips which is an easy way to judge.  that's around here (east and southern adirondacks) not sure how it is around finger lakes and west.  maybe bigger.  that first little guy that WNYBuckHunter posted really doesn't seem at all to be that wide though.

[dbHunterNY]

3 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

They issue as many tags as they do because on average, only a low percentage of them are filled and reported.

yup close to 15% of DMPs are filled every year.

[moog5050]

31 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

16" inside spread is a lot.... typically see around 13.5" inside or 15" outside spread have the outside of antlers almost to the ear tips which is an easy way to judge.  that's around here (east and southern adirondacks) not sure how it is around finger lakes and west.  maybe bigger.  that first little guy that WNYBuckHunter posted really doesn't seem at all to be that wide though.

Agreed.  Spread is no guarantee either.  The buck I shot that grossed over 135" this year had less than a 16" inside spread. 

[dbHunterNY]

bucks with higher number of points than most others within their age class are always a target, with or without any buck restriction.  people have a natural tendency to "high grade".  a combination - points to a side OR spread usually kills the "lesser bucks" or ones with "bad genes" if there is such a thing.  bucks that otherwise don't fit the bill otherwise are so far and few between the chances of them being hit by a car, taken by youth or new hunters, taken at a border of an area without restrictions, or injured somehow and later a target for predators isn't going to do anything to effect genetics.  even if you assume it's all him and not his momma it's still not even a drop in the bucket.  as for wasted opportunity the prevalence just wouldn't be there.

[gjs4]

Hiding behind the exceptions is a dated argument


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[beachpeaz]

Antler restrictions are the illegitimate child of uneducated parents.

Its not hard to age a deer.  If you can't decipher between a yearling and a mature buck, you shouldn't be hunting.

I'm not arguing that the DEC should control what you shoot, to each your own.

I'm simply stating that IF they want to allow deer to grow, then age is the ONLY thing that should be considered.  The rest is straight horse $#%@

[wolc123]

 

3 hours ago, Rack Attack said:

See that's the mentality I'll never understand.  Why would someone choose to shoot that buck with 1.5 inch points, even if they had a DMP?  The intent of DMP's is to take female deer to help with population control, not so someone can choose to shoot a micro buck just to say they shot a buck, or because "I'm going to shoot it cause it's legal to".  I just don't get it.

I did it one time and I will tell you why:   It was 13 years ago and I was having a tough year, with no shot opportunities through archery season and two weeks into gun season.  My hunting time was extremely limited, due to a hectic work schedule which included lots of time out of state.   I was home on the third Saturday of gun season, but I had to fly out of town for work early the next morning.  It was a big job, and more than likely this was the last day I could hunt that year. I had two dmp tags and one buck tag.    

It was pouring rain, so I grabbed my open-sight Remington 870 and headed for my ground blind.   After a few hours of no sightings, the rain and wind stopped and the sun came out.   I made my way to nearby stand, near a clover field.   A few minutes later, a deer came out of the brush and started feeding about 100 yards away.  That was a little farther than I had shot on the range with that gun.  It soon became apparent that the deer was not going to get any closer.  I could not make out any antlers.   From a very good rest, I squeezed off a shot.   The shot went high, as I saw mud fly past the deer.   The deer continued to feed.  I corrected the range, aiming lower, and broke it's back with my next shot.  It hobbled into the adjacent brush and was dead by the time I got close.  Only then did I see those 1-1/2" antlers, which required one of my dmp tags.   

I think it was a late-born buck from the prior year, but it may have been a very well-fed, early-born one from that year.  It field dressed about 85 pounds, and provided our family with the only venison we had that winter.   If I were in that situation again, I would do nothing different (except maybe aim a little lower with my first shot).  I was happy to see that it had antlers, as our deer population was slightly below optimum at that time.   Today, it is well above optimum (in zone 9F), so I would be a little sad to see those antlers.  None the less, it was one of the better-eating deer that I remember.    

[NFA-ADK]

New regs:  Antlers must have at least 18 inches on one side, 4 point at least 1 inch or longer, 2.5 inch circumference around G1, minimum of a 2 inch on G2, Min of are you kidding me!  LOL you really think most hunters want so sit on stand measuring a deer antlers and wondering if it is legal to shoot!   Hell a 8 point or better comes out on most hunters and all they want to do is get a shot, not sit and count points or try to figure if the inside beam is 16 inches through 40 yards or brush! 

Most hunters are not trophy hunters and just want to shoot any deer!  Buy yea lets impose what I want everyone to do so I can shoot a big deer and no one shoots my spikes, I don't care if he needs meat for the winter I want easy bucks to kill because I never learned to hunt and want to sit in my stand with 10 and 12 points running amok.   Sorry I got carried away in the end their.

Simply put we are already choosing to pass many deer as advanced hunters and yes many of you are part of this group, don't deny your inexperienced hunters from doing what you once where legally able to learn from!  It is self serving at best.  Education and cooperation is best and is already working. 

Just my 2 cents take it for what it is. 

 

 

 

[wolc123]

22 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

New regs:  Antlers must have at least 18 inches on one side, 4 point at least 1 inch or longer, 2.5 inch circumference around G1, minimum of a 2 inch on G2, Min of are you kidding me!  LOL you really think most hunters want so sit on stand measuring a deer antlers and wondering if it is legal to shoot!   Hell a 8 point or better comes out on most hunters and all they want to do is get a shot, not sit and count points or try to figure if the inside beam is 16 inches through 40 yards or brush! 

Most hunters are not trophy hunters and just want to shoot any deer!  Buy yea lets impose what I want everyone to do so I can shoot a big deer and no one shoots my spikes, I don't care if he needs meat for the winter I want easy bucks to kill because I never learned to hunt and want to sit in my stand with 10 and 12 points running amok.   Sorry I got carried away in the end their.

Simply put we are already choosing to pass many deer as advanced hunters and yes many of you are part of this group, don't deny your inexperienced hunters from doing what you once where legally able to learn from!  It is self serving at best.  Education and cooperation is best and is already working. 

Just my 2 cents take it for what it is. 

 

 

 

All good points.  It sounds like the AR thing is dead in the water for this year anyhow.  It's no big deal for me, as I understand the reasons against it and my home zone was not involved anyhow.   I am glad that the crossbow full inclusion still has some traction in Albany.   That will make it much easier for me to fill the freezer this year, unlike the AR's, which would make it a little tougher.         

Edited March 31, 2017 by wolc123

[chas0218]

21 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Under the proposed rules for 8N, just down the road from our farm, this yearling would be legal

 

But this 3 1/2 wouldnt be

 

Before you guys say anything, both of these deer have most likely set foot in 8N, and we have deer that meet these categories every single year.Its not an oddity or anything like that. 

Wouldn't that bottom one be legal having 4 on one side?

[nybuckboy]

How about something simple like 2 deer per season includes Bow, Gun and MZ seasons, period. Take what you want and be done with it. No more DMP's.

Let the hunter who wants to shoot meat get it by doe or by buck and be done. For the trophy hunters who want to wait or the hunter who doesn't have a lot of time can get the job and be out of the the wood thus leaving the woods to others who are more selective.

Personally I make no bones about it... I am a trophy hunter first and a meat hunter second. I am fortunate to have to land to be selective and I can bide my time waiting for Mr Big and if he never comes I can take venison later in the season. 

2 deer per hunter per season and that's it!  Should satisfy everyone, even the DEC.

[chas0218]

14 minutes ago, nybuckboy said:

How about something simple like 2 deer per season includes Bow, Gun and MZ seasons, period. Take what you want and be done with it. No more DMP's.

Let the hunter who wants to shoot meat get it by doe or by buck and be done. For the trophy hunters who want to wait or the hunter who doesn't have a lot of time can get the job and be out of the the wood thus leaving the woods to others who are more selective.

Personally I make no bones about it... I am a trophy hunter first and a meat hunter second. I am fortunate to have to land to be selective and I can bide my time waiting for Mr Big and if he never comes I can take venison later in the season. 

2 deer per hunter per season and that's it!  Should satisfy everyone, even the DEC.

That would be great but 3 deer feed my family not 2.

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Wouldn't that bottom one be legal having 4 on one side?

Its a 6, 3 on each side.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, nybuckboy said:

How about something simple like 2 deer per season includes Bow, Gun and MZ seasons, period. Take what you want and be done with it. No more DMP's.

Let the hunter who wants to shoot meat get it by doe or by buck and be done. For the trophy hunters who want to wait or the hunter who doesn't have a lot of time can get the job and be out of the the wood thus leaving the woods to others who are more selective.

Personally I make no bones about it... I am a trophy hunter first and a meat hunter second. I am fortunate to have to land to be selective and I can bide my time waiting for Mr Big and if he never comes I can take venison later in the season. 

2 deer per hunter per season and that's it!  Should satisfy everyone, even the DEC.

That would be a horrible idea for the zones with high deer numbers.

[nybuckboy]

13 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

That would be a horrible idea for the zones with high deer numbers.

Then make those zones 3 deer per hunter per season. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, nybuckboy said:

Then make those zones 3 deer per hunter per season. 

Still not a good option. The percentage of hunters that are successful is pretty low, and it doesnt have much to do with a lack of deer. The other issue is land access, many areas just dont have alot of public land, and getting permission for private land isnt exactly a cake walk.

For example, on one of the farms I hunt, not everyone that hunts there ends up getting a deer every year. There are a few of us that are very successful year in and year out, and we are the ones that the farmer depends on to make any sort of dent in the numbers. This past season, I was out of the game with a knee injury for a huge part of the season, and only ended up with 1 deer from the farm. Normally I take 2 or 3. One of the other guys did not get a chance to hunt as much as he usually does as well. The take was quite a bit lower than usual this year because of that. If you start limiting guys to only a few deer each every year, you will have a hard time keeping the deer in check in many areas.