What is the point of youth turkey season?

[growalot]

[mowin]

18 hours ago, chas0218 said:

So why should we as adults give them the easy avenue. Working in the school system I see it non-stop. The worst thing you can do for most if not every youth is give them special treatment. I think too much of that happens nowadays. It gives these kids a sense of entitlement, one of the last things they need. I'm sorry but these same people advocating for youth seasons are the same ones that bitch about everyone gets a trophy and antler restrictions. My 2 sons can go out during regular season and kill a turkey or deer nothing comes easy in life.

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Your seriously comparing youth seasons to the school systems policy? Entitlement? Really? Because they got to go hunt a week sooner or with a gun before you?  

Scared their going to shoot "your" deer are ya? 

[Doc]

13 hours ago, mowin said:

Your seriously comparing youth seasons to the school systems policy? Entitlement? Really? Because they got to go hunt a week sooner or with a gun before you?  

Scared their going to shoot "your" deer are ya? 

Why does everyone seem to go there. Do you think that impugning one's motives automatically lends strength to your arguments. Is it so hard to believe that perhaps chas0218 may actually believe that achievements worked for are the most enduring achievements. I know that all these snide remarks sound cute, but if you are serious about discussing the issue, those kinds of comments are not productive. That is how so many discussions seem to devolve into mindless flame wars.

[mowin]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Why does everyone seem to go there. Do you think that impugning one's motives automatically lends strength to your arguments. Is it so hard to believe that perhaps chas0218 may actually believe that achievements worked for are the most enduring achievements. I know that all these snide remarks sound cute, but if you are serious about discussing the issue, those kinds of comments are not productive. That is how so many discussions seem to devolve into mindless flame wars.

Wow.... 

[nyantler]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:03 PM, chas0218 said:

So why should we as adults give them the easy avenue. Working in the school system I see it non-stop. The worst thing you can do for most if not every youth is give them special treatment. I think too much of that happens nowadays. It gives these kids a sense of entitlement, one of the last things they need. I'm sorry but these same people advocating for youth seasons are the same ones that bitch about everyone gets a trophy and antler restrictions. My 2 sons can go out during regular season and kill a turkey or deer nothing comes easy in life.

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I don't think the youth season is about making it easier for kids to take a turkey or giving them an extra pat on the back. It's simply a weekend that is set aside to get kids out in the woods and introduce them to turkey hunting without a million other hunters in the woods. Hopefully they'll have a lifetime to do it with the rest of us. I don't see kids being given anything here but a few days to themselves... no guarantees of a trophy, no restriction on size of bird... no taxpayer funded checks from the government... just a couple days.

[growalot]

Quote

Is it so hard to believe that perhaps chas0218 may actually believe that achievements worked for are the most enduring achievements

Just give me a break Doc. Now I don't go for the name calling and such . Though Both beach and chas has COMPLETELY ignored the FACT that a dang good many of these kids are taken out by NON parental hunters. That this is probably the ONLY way they are going to be exposed to turkey hunting. Why should these volunteers also be asked to give up their first day or weekend of the turkey season? I don't know...... lets see between the OP and chase's how many times was this mentioned? How many guys here posted about taking other peoples kids out for the youth season? YET here he is talking entitlements..Pull off those freaking blinders already and move on! Ya this one ticked me off...

[NFA-ADK]

28 minutes ago, nyantler said:

I don't think the youth season is about making it easier for kids to take a turkey or giving them an extra pat on the back. It's simply a weekend that is set aside to get kids out in the woods and introduce them to turkey hunting without a million other hunters in the woods. Hopefully they'll have a lifetime to do it with the rest of us. I don't see kids being given anything here but a few days to themselves... no guarantees of a trophy, no restriction on size of bird... no taxpayer funded checks from the government... just a couple days.

I have to agree, this is not a handout and they still have to work to get this bird or any early season deer.  Granted they are not as alert or under presser as much as opening day but they still have to call in the turkey or be in the right spot to take the game and they have to have enough skill to make the shot.  Some of you talk like it is a given that they will score when they have to do the same thing we have to do early season.  We have just as much advantage early season that they do and still have to make a good shot. 

This all teaches them many things.

1) Nothing is free, you have to work at hunting to be successful (I don't care what you hunt, hunting is hard work that is earned.)  Youth hunt introduces them to getting up early and spending time in the woods often with out seeing game or not getting a shot the first day.

2) Shooting: They learn how a firearm is not a toy and is a valuable tool for the hunter to be treated with respect!

3) Learning the woods.  Our great mentors teach them many things about how nature and the real word works.  This is not watered down hunting, you are going out to kill for food and to survive on good natural food that is not processed.  Schools will never teach this!

4) These great mentors teach about animals, reading sign and calling.  We have become a society where harming ANYTHING is considered bad so I do not see hunting ever being taught by the people your kids spend the most time with at school.

5) Hunting is one of the best ways to enjoy family and friends and reconnect with nature and our roots.

6) It allows young hunters to get the mentors full attention without a parents fear of opening day craziness.  

If you can't see the benefits I am really not sure what to say except take off your blinders.  We need this, if it gets just a few kids into hunting every year it is well worth it!  The excuse that they need to earn this and they should not have a special time for them is just plain selfish.  They have to do the same thing any other hunter does on opening day!

[chas0218]

Your seriously comparing youth seasons to the school systems policy? Entitlement? Really? Because they got to go hunt a week sooner or with a gun before you?  

Scared their going to shoot "your" deer are ya? 

The funny thing is you think I cared they hunted a week before me, I mentioned before I could careless if they shot all the turkey in the county or all the deer in the state. I said I worked in the school system and have 300 students a school year in my class I have some first hand experience. I have saw the lasting effects of entitlement and this is exactly where kids are heading with stuff like this. Granted not all of them but the majority. I take people hunting and fishing in hopes they get the big one. My son will have deer on his wall that will have adults envious, could I have shot that deer probably but why not let my kid?

If these people taking kids out truly don't mind then why would they be burning a weekend?

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[G-Man]

The last 6 kids I've taken out are not mine..the youth weekend let me take a kid who's parents don't hunt out in a much more controlled environment. In a non vompwtitive Weekend . They usually have so much fun they get their parent interested in trying it themselves.. I don't see it as a hand out but a chance to get them involved before sports school. And technology takes over

[chas0218]

I don't think the youth season is about making it easier for kids to take a turkey or giving them an extra pat on the back. It's simply a weekend that is set aside to get kids out in the woods and introduce them to turkey hunting without a million other hunters in the woods. Hopefully they'll have a lifetime to do it with the rest of us. I don't see kids being given anything here but a few days to themselves... no guarantees of a trophy, no restriction on size of bird... no taxpayer funded checks from the government... just a couple days.

For the most part I agree but I'm sorry I haven't saw a lot of turkey hunters at all this year on state property, actually I have saw 1 car parked at the state property this season that I drive past twice daily. Deer youth season you'll still have a bunch of bow hunters In the woods. It is making it easier, going after turkeys before they become trained to the call is much like opening weekend.

I have to agree, this is not a handout and they still have to work to get this bird or any early season deer.  Granted they are not as alert or under presser as much as opening day but they still have to call in the turkey or be in the right spot to take the game and they have to have enough skill to make the shot.  Some of you talk like it is a given that they will score when they have to do the same thing we have to do early season.  We have just as much advantage early season that they do and still have to make a good shot. 
This all teaches them many things.
1) Nothing is free, you have to work at hunting to be successful (I don't care what you hunt, hunting is hard work that is earned.)  Youth hunt introduces them to getting up early and spending time in the woods often with out seeing game or not getting a shot the first day.
2) Shooting: They learn how a firearm is not a toy and is a valuable tool for the hunter to be treated with respect!
3) Learning the woods.  Our great mentors teach them many things about how nature and the real word works.  This is not watered down hunting, you are going out to kill for food and to survive on good natural food that is not processed.  Schools will never teach this!
4) These great mentors teach about animals, reading sign and calling.  We have become a society where harming ANYTHING is considered bad so I do not see hunting ever being taught by the people your kids spend the most time with at school.
5) Hunting is one of the best ways to enjoy family and friends and reconnect with nature and our roots.
6) It allows young hunters to get the mentors full attention without a parents fear of opening day craziness.  
If you can't see the benefits I am really not sure what to say except take off your blinders.  We need this, if it gets just a few kids into hunting every year it is well worth it!  The excuse that they need to earn this and they should not have a special time for them is just plain selfish.  They have to do the same thing any other hunter does on opening day!

I agree it does teach them those things you listed but it is a handout unless that youth kid has been out with you scouting, practicing shooting, hanging stands/setting blinds , ect. Taking a kid out just to shoot something in my book isn't showing them anything useful. Reminds me of the saying about a guy and a fish.

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[growalot]

I HAVE SEEN AND I HAVEN'T SEEN ...NOT SAW

[Doc]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 7:46 AM, growalot said:

Just give me a break Doc. Now I don't go for the name calling and such . Though Both beach and chas has COMPLETELY ignored the FACT that a dang good many of these kids are taken out by NON parental hunters. That this is probably the ONLY way they are going to be exposed to turkey hunting. Why should these volunteers also be asked to give up their first day or weekend of the turkey season? I don't know...... lets see between the OP and chase's how many times was this mentioned? How many guys here posted about taking other peoples kids out for the youth season? YET here he is talking entitlements..Pull off those freaking blinders already and move on! Ya this one ticked me off...

So it appears that my reply blew completely over your head. I was commenting on the style of response always being so damned hostile. There is no reason for that kind of flame activity here. It gets kind of tiresome to have every opinion instantly drawing snide remarks or name calling or impugning of motives. Don't get so offended every time someone happens to have a different opinion than your own. That was all I was saying. Relax....Take a deep breath, and try to maintain control. This is conversation, not combat.

[growalot]

I'd point out that in both your posts...you did exactly what you accused others of doing. Though I believe that may go over your head.. I'd also point out that your responses with your snide remarks,in both, were because you disagreed with someone else opinion. Though being so high on that horse of yours you'd fail to see it. Again give me a break !

[NFA-ADK]

I think many of you who object are missing the point.  It gives a good introduction from an experienced hunter into the wonderful outdoors and hunting, just because they do not do all the work is not a real good reason to stop it. 

If you really disagree with it, send a letter to your representative explaining how horrible this youth hunting is and that is it so bad it should be stopped.  I mean who would possibly want to help out the younger crowd by giving them an easier opportunity and showing them how camaraderie can be so helpful.

 

[Buckmaster7600]

I HAVE SEEN AND I HAVEN'T SEEN ...NOT SAW

Maybe that's the problem with the school system?


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[Buckmaster7600]

So why should we as adults give them the easy avenue. Working in the school system I see it non-stop. The worst thing you can do for most if not every youth is give them special treatment. I think too much of that happens nowadays. It gives these kids a sense of entitlement, one of the last things they need. I'm sorry but these same people advocating for youth seasons are the same ones that bitch about everyone gets a trophy and antler restrictions. My 2 sons can go out during regular season and kill a turkey or deer nothing comes easy in life.

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Do your kids play little league if so why are you taking it easy on them and not putting them in the pros? Why are they taking "X" grade classes and not college level courses if so why are you giving them the easy way out? Your argument asinine.

I am the parent of a 9yr old girl who does more house work and chores than most of my friends wives. She mows lawns with me and runs a 60" zero turn pro mower better than most adults, she has worked for nearly everything she has and will continue to do so. I am with you on the "now now now something for nothing" generations but this is simply not the case with youth season.


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[diplomat019]

 Or…… You do as you please with in the law with your kid. If you don't want to take your kid on youth hunting then so be it. everybody else who sees the positives in it then go for it.  Personally I see only good things can come out of you seasons. Especially considering a kid can only take advantage of them for a few years.   And if your kid is the type of person that wants to wake up early in the morning and was interested in hunting in the outdoors I doubt they are part of the everybody gets a trophy crowd   And a lot of adult hunters act worse than kids. I've got into arguments with grown men over there hunting etiquette. Less people in the woods equals a more enjoyable hunt

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Maybe that's the problem with the school system?


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Must be because I was on my son's kindle.

In all seriousness I should have double checked my gammar before posting.

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Do your kids play little league if so why are you taking it easy on them and not putting them in the pros? Why are they taking "X" grade classes and not college level courses if so why are you giving them the easy way out? Your argument asinine.

I am the parent of a 9yr old girl who does more house work and chores than most of my friends wives. She mows lawns with me and runs a 60" zero turn pro mower better than most adults, she has worked for nearly everything she has and will continue to do so. I am with you on the "now now now something for nothing" generations but this is simply not the case with youth season.


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The age requirements wouldn't let me, my kids are 2 and 3 months old. How about those parents that advocate for their kid to be on the higher level of a sport and they suck but because mom and dad threw a fit and the school doesn't want a law suit for some asinine reason so they are on the higher level? We actually had a coach get fired because they weren't playing a kid (not the only one) on the varsity level. Nothing in the scholastic sports or our district policies state every athlete must play on the varsity level but it didn't matter the coach still was fired. Sounds like every kid gets a trophy doesn't it? So what is the point of the youth season then to get them the turkey early before others are in the woods? That seems a lot like the now, now, now concept. Not sure how turkey hunting relates to grade levels in the school system? The example of your daughter is great. I'm sure she actually appreciates the things she has, she would be one of the few I have had in class that do. I see on a yearly basis at the end of the school year kids throw out brand new school supplies that I scrounge for the less fortunate the next year. I tell them to take them home for next year "My mom/dad will buy me new ones next year those are old." It's pretty damn sad.

I will mention I work at a middle school 7th and 8th grade. It really doesn't change much in the high school the attitude stays the same me, me, me. and only the best for little Johnny or Jane. Hell my sister in law has that attitude and she is 21 and guess what mom and dad still pay for most her crap. Lets not mention the $15,000 car she was given and doesn't pay a dime for insurance/payment.

Like I said before it's entitlement especially if they are just going out to kill something without taking any skills or knowledge away from it.

Edited May 17, 2017 by chas0218

[Buckmaster7600]

The age requirements wouldn't let me, my kids are 2 and 3 months old. How about those parents that advocate for their kid to be on the higher level of a sport and they suck but because mom and dad threw a fit and the school doesn't want a law suit for some asinine reason so they are on the higher level? We actually had a coach get fired because they weren't playing a kid (not the only one) on the varsity level. Nothing in the scholastic sports or our district policies state every athlete must play on the varsity level but it didn't matter the coach still was fired. Sounds like every kid gets a trophy doesn't it? So what is the point of the youth season then to get them the turkey early before others are in the woods? That seems a lot like the now, now, now concept. Not sure how turkey hunting relates to grade levels in the school system? The example of your daughter is great. I'm sure she actually appreciates the things she has, she would be one of the few I have had in class that do. I see on a yearly basis at the end of the school year kids throw out brand new school supplies that I scrounge for the less fortunate the next year. I tell them to take them home for next year "My mom/dad will buy me new ones next year those are old." It's pretty damn sad.

I will mention I work at a middle school 7th and 8th grade. It really doesn't change much in the high school the attitude stays the same me, me, me. and only the best for little Johnny or Jane. Hell my sister in law has that attitude and she is 21 and guess what mom and dad still pay for most her crap. Lets not mention the $15,000 car she was given and doesn't pay a dime for insurance/payment.

Like I said before it's entitlement especially if they are just going out to kill something without taking any skills or knowledge away from it.

Ok, how about training wheels on a bike? Learning fundamentals in a safer "easier" environment. I still remember my daughters first time she figured out how to ride a bike with training wheels she was so excited, then her first time she was able to ride without them was an awesome experience for both of us. There is nothing wrong with Teaching a kid how to do something under a more controlled environment. I taught her how to shoot when she was 3 using a 22 if I would have handed her my 35whelen and let her shoot it she wouldn't ever want to do it again, was that too easy on her? I taught her how to catch a ball using a foam ball, should I have used a softball? I taught her to shoot a basket ball with a little plastic hoop, should I have made her learn on a 10ft hoop? I taught her how to ride a wheeler on a Honda 50, should I have sat her on my 250R and let her go? The list could go on forever. It isn't about giving them an easy reward it's about instilling knowledge and experience that we hope they will use for the rest of their lives and hopefully pass on to their kids.

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[Grizz1219]

It appears to be simple.... The ones against it are the same ones that hate the idea of hunter #'s going up in their area, and would love to have fewer people hunting if it means more game for them no matter if in the long run, hunting fades away... (Short sighted/selfish).... The ones that are for youth hunts want hunting to last and grow in #'s... That want others to experience the joys of hunting... No matter what you argue that you aren't that selfish or short sighted... it is VERY apparent to everyone else you are.. The truth is that children's free time is far less available than when middle aged adults had at the same age along with less land to hunt makes a youth hunt the only way for some to get involved... but you keep thinking like an island, so tired of ignorant people trying to justify selfishness... 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, chas0218 said:

The age requirements wouldn't let me, my kids are 2 and 3 months old. How about those parents that advocate for their kid to be on the higher level of a sport and they suck but because mom and dad threw a fit and the school doesn't want a law suit for some asinine reason so they are on the higher level? We actually had a coach get fired because they weren't playing a kid (not the only one) on the varsity level. Nothing in the scholastic sports or our district policies state every athlete must play on the varsity level but it didn't matter the coach still was fired. Sounds like every kid gets a trophy doesn't it? So what is the point of the youth season then to get them the turkey early before others are in the woods? That seems a lot like the now, now, now concept. Not sure how turkey hunting relates to grade levels in the school system? The example of your daughter is great. I'm sure she actually appreciates the things she has, she would be one of the few I have had in class that do. I see on a yearly basis at the end of the school year kids throw out brand new school supplies that I scrounge for the less fortunate the next year. I tell them to take them home for next year "My mom/dad will buy me new ones next year those are old." It's pretty damn sad.

I will mention I work at a middle school 7th and 8th grade. It really doesn't change much in the high school the attitude stays the same me, me, me. and only the best for little Johnny or Jane. Hell my sister in law has that attitude and she is 21 and guess what mom and dad still pay for most her crap. Lets not mention the $15,000 car she was given and doesn't pay a dime for insurance/payment.

Like I said before it's entitlement especially if they are just going out to kill something without taking any skills or knowledge away from it.

I think you are missing the biggest reason that the youth seasons are early (in my mind anyway). What is the true point of a youth season? Outreach to get kids in the sport and the woods that may not have been able to? I believe this increases the likelihood that a mentor will take a kid out when it doesn't take away from their season. It also focuses the outing on the kids without distractions of their own hunt. Seems like a pretty selfless group in here based on the stories I hear about people taking kids out. I am not so sure the majority of folks are like that. So this season increases the chances that kids will get out, get hooked and buy licenses. I think that is driving force and not the making it easier point

[mowin]

Before the youth season came about, I was taking a youngster out on opening day of trukey. Lot of these kids were not relatives. I took them scouting a few times before the season to give them the full picture. We roosted birds, looked for sign, showed them the difference between hen and tom droppings. Patterned there shotgun, ect. 

Some of these kids are now very proficient hunters. Once in a while, one will see me in the store/restaurant, and start reminiscing about that first hunt. 

Those memories are why I do it.  Maybe they will be generous with there time to take a kid out for his/her first hunt. 

[Doc]

22 hours ago, growalot said:

I'd point out that in both your posts...you did exactly what you accused others of doing. Though I believe that may go over your head.. I'd also point out that your responses with your snide remarks,in both, were because you disagreed with someone else opinion. Though being so high on that horse of yours you'd fail to see it. Again give me a break !

Boy, you are really on a tear aren't you. You really like this flaming stuff apparently. By the way, that is not a snide remark, but just an observation.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Doc

[gjs4]

The point of every youth season is to sell more licenses in a manner similar to shrouding a skeleton in a new stylish coat.

Per the deer report there is only like 2 kids per town doing it so there is no need to feel they have an impact... but wait, that would also mean they're finding no recruitment success with it as well.... hmm


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