Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[Core]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I can get my compound off the hook with one hand on the grip, so all I have to do is get it into position, clip my release on and draw. The crossbow is more awkward to get off the hook and get your hands on the grip and forearm and get it pointed at the deer. Just illustrating that it isnt as easy as some try and make it out to be, thats all.

My climber has a rail and I sit the xbow on that the entire time. Same with vertical. 

[NYBowhunter]

6 minutes ago, Core said:

I'm surprised you'd question how it would impact another's hunting. The fact that buck no longer exists would.

Last couple years (not this one thank God) I had to hunt public land. It was hard with very few deer, and that became even worse with gun season. Certainly as you opened up availability you'll get increased pressure. Bow is nice because other than those who physically can't do it anymore, it separates the casual from the determined. Bow only provided me a way to increase odds on public land.

Sorry but maybe im made from another cloth,  im happy when others get deer wether it be with bow or crossbow.  So your saying that physically abled bow hunters are a more determined group of hunters and therefore should have sole rights to bow season?

[NYBowhunter]

 15 minutes ago, Core said:

I'm surprised you'd question how it would impact another's hunting. The fact that buck no longer exists would

^^And to your point above, you cant honestly beleive that crossbows will eliminate the existence of all or even most  bucks., do you?

 

[nyantler]

25 minutes ago, Core said:

I'm surprised you'd question how it would impact another's hunting. The fact that buck no longer exists would.

Last couple years (not this one thank God) I had to hunt public land. It was hard with very few deer, and that became even worse with gun season. Certainly as you opened up availability you'll get increased pressure. Bow is nice because other than those who physically can't do it anymore, it separates the casual from the determined. Bow only provided me a way to increase odds on public land.

That buck could no longer exist just as easily if someone kills it with a longbow... and there are many casual bow hunters, as well as determined crossbow hunters. So, you're in favor of reducing hunter numbers in NY so that you can have the woods to yourself?

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

What kind of hook do you use? With an Xbow I use a really long one that's 3 sections so the Xbow is directly over my strong shoulder, pick off the hook with pistol grip basically same movements as with bow.

 

 

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Here’s how we typically hang our bows, guns and now crossbows. Most of our sets are similar except for the few ladder stands and non clump tree sets (4 or 5 between 2 farms and over 1000 acres). Sorry for the upside down and sideways pics, you get the idea though. 

[Merlot]

At first I did not support x-bow. Now I do. 

[wolc123]

2 minutes ago, Merlot said:

At first I did not support x-bow. Now I do. 

About a year ago, someone posted a poll in the bowhunting section on this site that asked if folks preferred no crossbows in archery, leaving it two weeks only, or full inclusion.   The poll lasted a week or so, until it magically disappeared.  At the time it went away, the total in favor of full inclusion was running about double that in favor of leaving it two weeks only.   I can only assume that did not fit someones agenda, which is why it disappeared.   At this time, I would not be surprised to see a 3:1 advantage in favor of full inclusion, because of folks like you.

There will always be selfish, elitist holdouts however.  Try as they may, they can not stop the aging process.  Eventually, all of them will come around.   If not, there is always Oregon.   

[Buckmaster7600]

Here’s how we typically hang our bows, guns and now crossbows. Most of our sets are similar except for the few ladder stands and non clump tree sets (4 or 5 between 2 farms and over 1000 acres). Sorry for the upside down and sideways pics, you get the idea though. 

try one of these, I use the same hooks you do for the bow but it's too much movement with the Xbow. Like I said I hang the over my strong shoulder grab the pistol grip and lower it way less movement.



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[WNYBuckHunter]

34 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

try one of these, I use the same hooks you do for the bow but it's too much movement with the Xbow. Like I said I hang the over my strong shoulder grab the pistol grip and lower it way less movement.



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I’ll grab one and give it a try

[Jamoke]

4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Have you ever shot at a deer with a vertical bow or a crossbow at over 40 yards ?   That is beyond the "danger zone" in which a deer will react to the sound of a bow's release.   I killed my first crossbow buck at 59 yards and he never moved until the bolt pierced his heart.  The last move he made on his own was a fall to the ground, about 40 yards from where he had stood when hit.  I would be interested in knowing what your basis for that claim is ?    I might just be "nuts" though, according to a few others  here.     

The basis for that claim was in my post. You got extremely lucky. That was an exception, not the rule. 

[wolc123]

 

1 hour ago, Jamoke said:

The basis for that claim was in my post. You got extremely lucky. That was an exception, not the rule. 

You offered no evidence that deer react to a bow or crossbow launching an arrow at a range of over 40 yards.  The reason you do not have evidence of that is that there simply is not any available.   Do you think deer "jump" when a branch falls off a tree 40 yards away.  It sounds to me like you are completely lacking in any experience with a bow or crossbow at such a range.  Come back when and if you get some.  "Hearsay" adds no value to this forum.   My experience is limited, but it is there.  Check out the picture in the heart shot section if you are in doubt.  

[wolc123]

14 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

My experience with an Xbow has been the opposite 20-30yds deer jump string because they are loud. Over 30 I think they are far enough away that they don't "jump" because it's not as close of a threat. That being said I won't shoot an alert deer over 30yds with either verticals bow or Xbow but a deer that has no idea I'm there I have no problem shooting either at distances over that if I have a clear lane. The only deer I ever wounded with a xbow was a 22yd shot on a doe that had me pegged she jumped string and I hit her high in the shoulder I was able to get right on her trail and kill her a half our later.


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14 hours ago, Jamoke said:

Anyone shooting a deer past 40yds with an xbow is tempting fate and completely nuts. Too much string jumping going on past 40. Wanna see a bunch of wounded deer, shoot past 40yds. Inside 30yds though, it's a done deal 95% of the time unlike the compound. Put an xbow in the hands of the inexperienced hunter with the mindset of shooting to 60yds is trouble, but I'd still like to see full inclusion.

I guess I can't fault you Jamoke,  for not buying my own  "one shot" experience, with a shot over 40 yards at a deer with a crossbow.  How about this guy who claims to be the most experienced crossbow hunter on this forum.  We have some history here and I have never known him to "stretch" the truth.   Again, please come back when and if you come up with any real evidence that backs up your outlandish claim.  My guess is that it is based on a high-school/college understanding of physics, where you have calculated how far a deer could move at long range in the time it takes an arrow to cover the distance.   I agree that they can cover plenty of distance to cause a complete miss.   What you are lacking though, is the fact that if they do not start that movement, by sensing the danger and flinching, then it is exactly the same as shooting at a paper target.    Does not one of Newtons laws state that a body at rest will remain at rest unless acted upon by a force ?

[Merlot]

12 hours ago, wolc123 said:

About a year ago, someone posted a poll in the bowhunting section on this site that asked if folks preferred no crossbows in archery, leaving it two weeks only, or full inclusion.   The poll lasted a week or so, until it magically disappeared.  At the time it went away, the total in favor of full inclusion was running about double that in favor of leaving it two weeks only.   I can only assume that did not fit someones agenda, which is why it disappeared.   At this time, I would not be surprised to see a 3:1 advantage in favor of full inclusion, because of folks like you.

There will always be selfish, elitist holdouts however.  Try as they may, they can not stop the aging process.  Eventually, all of them will come around.   If not, there is always Oregon.   

The aging process as you mention is key with me. Not that excited about gun hunting as opposed to archery. Not that excited about the prices on x-bows, but if I have to, I will buy one.

[chrisw]

I guess I can't fault you Jamoke,  for not buying my own  "one shot" experience, with a shot over 40 yards at a deer with a crossbow.  How about this guy who claims to be the most experienced crossbow hunter on this forum.  We have some history here and I have never known him to "stretch" the truth.   Again, please come back when and if you come up with any real evidence that backs up your outlandish claim.  My guess is that it is based on a high-school/college understanding of physics, where you have calculated how far a deer could move at long range in the time it takes an arrow to cover the distance.   I agree that they can cover plenty of distance to cause a complete miss.   What you are lacking though, is the fact that if they do not start that movement, by sensing the danger and flinching, then it is exactly the same as shooting at a paper target.    Does not one of Newtons laws state that a body at rest will remain at rest unless acted upon by a force ?

Maybe he doesn't believe you because if he bought into everything you say he'd be shooting deer straight up the bunghole and hoping Jesus makes it right... Just because you had one experience doesn't make it gospel either, I've also had deer at 50 yds trotting through and wouldn't even stop to look at me when I yelled out loud, there are exceptions to every rule. The point to where this conversation is currently I think is that you probably shouldn't be taking any different shots than you did/could with a compound. The crossbow doesn't have laser guiding systems, and 60 yds is quite a stretch in a archery hunting scenario, compound or crossbow. I think most people forget, bowhunting is about how close you can get, not how far away you can shoot.



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[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I would be glad for him. Bummed that the deer is gone and I can no longer hunt it, but thats about it.

Let me ask you this...You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his compound. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed?

And I believe you, I'm just stating that not everyone could shrug it off as easily. And that's part of the contempt.

14 hours ago, NYBowhunter said:

Sorry but maybe im made from another cloth,  im happy when others get deer wether it be with bow or crossbow.  So your saying that physically abled bow hunters are a more determined group of hunters and therefore should have sole rights to bow season?

nobody is saying they should have sole rights. The agitation comes from thinking someone didn't work as hard and therefore didn't deserve it. I'm not saying that's right, but I do believe it exists. I remember when I was 19. It was my first year in college and I was only gun hunting thanksgiving week at the time. I did zero work to help prep our stands and I shot a nice 8 point my second evening sit. My uncle had been busting his ass all bow season, but was having one of those seasons. He was of course happy for me. It was only my 3rd deer and biggest yet. But I also so the frustration on his face. He never vocalized anything, but I think it's a natural feeling.

14 hours ago, nyantler said:

That buck could no longer exist just as easily if someone kills it with a longbow... and there are many casual bow hunters, as well as determined crossbow hunters. So, you're in favor of reducing hunter numbers in NY so that you can have the woods to yourself?

There aint anyone out there going to give a longbow hunter any shit. He/she put in some crazy effort to achieve that. Heck just look at the dude who shot a bear with his recurve this year. That dude may have broke a like record on this forum. Do you wonder why?

Bowhunting has never and should never be about efficient killing. It's meant to be a challenge. The crossbow dilutes that challenge. 

[Five Seasons]

18 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I appreciate the honesty.   And I understand your point.  But I suppose you have the option of jumping in with a crossbow if you like or just take on the greater challenge and shoot the bow. Do what makes you happy.  I really don't care at all what the neighbor is doing.  Just my opinion.  

ultimately i really don't. but it kills the time when i'm at work and not enjoying a fresh snow fall in the deer woods... although that howling wind doesn't make me too upset haha.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

Bowhunting has never and should never be about efficient killing. It's meant to be a challenge. The crossbow dilutes that challenge. 

See. That is what I don't agree with and what the Anti's can't seem to get past. Who cares? or who should care is a better question. 2 million people in the woods with a crossbow does not dilute my effort, experience or challenge when I am out there with my compound or recurve. My experience is still mine and is judged by what I do not by what all the other hunters are doing. 

[fasteddie]

I will be taking my X-bow tomorrow . I doubt I could shoot my compound with a heavy jacket on . Even so , I do NOT support full inclusion !

[Five Seasons]

19 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

See. That is what I don't agree with and what the Anti's can't seem to get past. Who cares? or who should care is a better question. 2 million people in the woods with a crossbow does not dilute my effort, experience or challenge when I am out there with my compound or recurve. My experience is still mine and is judged by what I do not by what all the other hunters are doing. 

You're right. But as much as hunting is human vs prey. We also compete with eachother. Like it or not. And nobody likes playing a game where the odds aren't even. I know not EVERYONE feels this way, i'm simply trying to explain the thought process. 

[NYBowhunter]

21 minutes ago, Belo said:

And I believe you, I'm just stating that not everyone could shrug it off as easily. And that's part of the contempt.

nobody is saying they should have sole rights. The agitation comes from thinking someone didn't work as hard and therefore didn't deserve it. I'm not saying that's right, but I do believe it exists. I remember when I was 19. It was my first year in college and I was only gun hunting thanksgiving week at the time. I did zero work to help prep our stands and I shot a nice 8 point my second evening sit. My uncle had been busting his ass all bow season, but was having one of those seasons. He was of course happy for me. It was only my 3rd deer and biggest yet. But I also so the frustration on his face. He never vocalized anything, but I think it's a natural feeling.

There aint anyone out there going to give a longbow hunter any shit. He/she put in some crazy effort to achieve that. Heck just look at the dude who shot a bear with his recurve this year. That dude may have broke a like record on this forum. Do you wonder why?

Bowhunting has never and should never be about efficient killing. It's meant to be a challenge. The crossbow dilutes that challenge. 

Yes i agree that there are people that can be jealous , i made it a point to make mention of that in my response,  i have witnessed it myself on many ocassions. I try to distance myself from those sorts of people.  Perfect example of how we should treat each other was last year i took my nephew out for his first hunt ever, my only recommendation to him was to try and let the button bucks go.  I did all the work to my property and he helped some, i basically showed him where to go, all he had to do was aim and shoot straight. So what do you think he shoots? You got it, a button buck. Guess what my reaction was? I gave him a big hug and a kiss and told him congrats and i was proud of him. I may make recommendations to others because its my property, but i never hold anyone to my standards. I must have said this a million times on this site, "LIFE IS WAY TO SHORT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IMPLEMENTS OR TACTICS OTHERS USE WITHIN LEGALITY, IN THE END NO ONE WILL LOOK BACK AND JUDGE YOU BECAUSE YOU USED A CROSSBOW.  Enjoy everything while you can , either with bow or crossbow. Sorry but im being brutally honest.

[Five Seasons]

agreed. But my "jealousy" or "frustration" would never apply to a new or young hunter. I'm trying to make the comparison of the "slob" neighbor vs the devoted one. All that said, you're right about life being short and not caring. It is what we should all aspire to.

[nyantler]

4 hours ago, Belo said:

And I believe you, I'm just stating that not everyone could shrug it off as easily. And that's part of the contempt.

nobody is saying they should have sole rights. The agitation comes from thinking someone didn't work as hard and therefore didn't deserve it. I'm not saying that's right, but I do believe it exists. I remember when I was 19. It was my first year in college and I was only gun hunting thanksgiving week at the time. I did zero work to help prep our stands and I shot a nice 8 point my second evening sit. My uncle had been busting his ass all bow season, but was having one of those seasons. He was of course happy for me. It was only my 3rd deer and biggest yet. But I also so the frustration on his face. He never vocalized anything, but I think it's a natural feeling.

There aint anyone out there going to give a longbow hunter any shit. He/she put in some crazy effort to achieve that. Heck just look at the dude who shot a bear with his recurve this year. That dude may have broke a like record on this forum. Do you wonder why?

Bowhunting has never and should never be about efficient killing. It's meant to be a challenge. The crossbow dilutes that challenge. 

We as hunters shouldn't be giving any other hunter shit for his legal way of getting the best hunting experience possible . One hunters challenge is not another's... for some it might be a challenge to get a deer with a crossbow. Who are we to deny anyone their right to the best hunting experience possible.

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, chrisw said:

Maybe he doesn't believe you because if he bought into everything you say he'd be shooting deer straight up the bunghole and hoping Jesus makes it right... Just because you had one experience doesn't make it gospel either, I've also had deer at 50 yds trotting through and wouldn't even stop to look at me when I yelled out loud, there are exceptions to every rule. The point to where this conversation is currently I think is that you probably shouldn't be taking any different shots than you did/could with a compound. The crossbow doesn't have laser guiding systems, and 60 yds is quite a stretch in a archery hunting scenario, compound or crossbow. I think most people forget, bowhunting is about how close you can get, not how far away you can shoot.



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I think the part you are missing about the range advantage of the crossbow concerns firing it from a rest and with a scope.   When fired offhand, it does not have any significant range advantage, and quite possibly has a disadvantage compared to a modern compound bow.   The rest adds a whole new dimension however.  Have you ever tried shooting a target offhand with a bb gun, using open sights, then tried it from a rest and with a scope at the same range ?  What groups are tighter ?  Those tighter groups at close range translate to tighter groups at long range, do they not ?   This is a common misunderstanding by bowhunters, who lack any experience with a crossbow.  They usually fail to grasp the importance of a rest on accuracy.    

It does not take a lot of effort to equip a treestand with a rest.  Most ladder stands have them anyhow.   What is basically just a "safety rail" for a bowhunter is also an integral part of long range accuracy with a crossbow.   It is easy to understand why "string-jump" is not a concern beyond 40 yards while shooting at a non-alert deer.   I would not take another shot at a deer over 50 yards with my own 300 fps crossbow, but I would have no problem up to that range, as long as the deer was standing and not alert, if I had a 370 or so fps model.   Two weeks only does not justify the additional expense of such a model for me at this time however.  Maybe full inclusion will happen next year.  As soon as it does, I will upgrade a bit.              

[erussell]

I see a one buck only if they are introduced for full inclusion. I have seen an increase of buck kills on social media since cross bow inclusion and season start this yr. which I am for. along with AR's. increased harvests with cross bows could help push them along.

[nyantler]

3 hours ago, erussell said:

I see a one buck only if they are introduced for full inclusion. I have seen an increase of buck kills on social media since cross bow inclusion and season start this yr. which I am for. along with AR's. increased harvests with cross bows could help push them along.

I have seen no increase and I am part of that social media posting NY buck harvests... any uptick in buck posts would probably be from more hunters each year on social media as well as more pages available to post bucks. If the vast majority of hunters were taking bucks instead of just a small percentage of the hunters I would be more apt to agree with a necessity for a one buck rule.