what is acceptable accuracy with your bow?

[WNYBuckHunter]

18 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just saying me/ you most  hunters would not think of using a 9mm to hunt deer .

But we have know problem doing it with a bow and arrow that you could make the argument is not really as effective .  

The truth is they are both very effective if you take a good shot .

And not if you take a crap shot .

 

 

 

 

 

Id hunt deer with a 9mm all day long with the right bullet.

[WNYBuckHunter]

19 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I don't either.  I always hit where I am aiming.  Sometimes I just decide to aim elsewhere.

Im stealing that excuse from you

[dbHunterNY]

25 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I don't either.  I always hit where I am aiming.  Sometimes I just decide to aim elsewhere.

totally. as a gentleman you've got to go about it in a sporting manner.

[chas0218]

42 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Here is a question for someone who  has hunted with a pistol I guess 

Most would not hunt with a 9mm handgun 

But why would you hunt farther then say 20 or 30 yards with a bow .

Does a bow really have that much more killing power then a 9mm bullet ?  At those ranges which most would say is not enough gun for the job .

I would love to use a 9mm to hunt deer and a bow doesn't have 1/4 the energy a 9mm bullet would have making it more ideal for killing a deer than an arrow. I would hunt any distance with a bow I was confident and proficient. I happen to shoot out to 60 yards and have taken 2 deer at 50 yards. One was a decent 10 point and another a doe, I would have taken the shots 100 times over if given the same opportunity. It's not about the distance that a bow can kill because they can kill out to 100 yards in the right hands it's more about what a person is proficient and confident out to not how far a bow will kill game.

[NFA-ADK]

2 hours ago, Storm914 said:

And you don't think over time living in a hunted area deer dont evolve to look out for the  dangers of archery  hunters ? 

 

No I believe this is learned and must be learned by each individual.  Not all deer have predators in the trees, with the exception of big cats deer do not have an instinct to look up until a danger is seen.  I would imagine area's with big cats deer would look up more but again it has to be learned.  The deer that is killed by an above predator has no chance at passing his or her genes and ones that survive do not pass this trait along.  IMO

In so far as them developing more tools to avoid hunters I feel they all ready have all the tools needed to survive.  Simply put if you look at all the different continents and prey on them they all look similar and probably have not changed in many many years.  No need to change perfection! 

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

It' an interesting point , I've thought about it on a deeper level myself . We all know that deer have amazing sense of smell, what if deer could smell something as simple as fletch tight or bowstring wax and assoiate that with danger . As far as deer seeing people in the trees ,I don' think they will ever get to the point of looking in every single tree as they walk ,just the ones that they have busted people in.

I have been busted in a tree to have that same deer walk by minutes later not bothering to look up. I think it is about seeing something they don't know what it is and take off. It's a fight or flight reaction and a deer's primal instinct is flight.

[Robhuntandfish]

i think deer are just in tune with everything around them.  They dont have a learned behavior that passes to the next generation. Them seeing or looking up in a tree has more to do with their awareness.  Have had deer stop and put their noses up in the air to get a better scent and then might spot you or it also depends on their location and treestand height.  The plane of your height in a tree is less the farther they are away.  Have had deer walk right under the stand and never know and have deer look right at me 100 yards  away.  Just depends if something catches their eye, nose or ears and how still , scent free and concealed you are.  I know its hard to believe that a deer could pick out a 275 pound redneck up a tree in their living room but they are pretty crafty!  

[Hunter007]

5 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:

No I believe this is learned and must be learned by each individual.  Not all deer have predators in the trees, with the exception of big cats deer do not have an instinct to look up until a danger is seen.  I would imagine area's with big cats deer would look up more but again it has to be learned.  The deer that is killed by an above predator has no chance at passing his or her genes and ones that survive do not pass this trait along.  IMO

In so far as them developing more tools to avoid hunters I feel they all ready have all the tools needed to survive.  Simply put if you look at all the different continents and prey on them they all look similar and probably have not changed in many many years.  No need to change perfection! 

I don't know for sure  but in the past In preshistoric times i think even before humans  there were birds of prey that went after the   young  of deer . So they could have the instinct to look up  from that still built in not to mention humans and there arrows and spears .

[wolc123]

On 2/13/2018 at 11:58 AM, Robhuntandfish said:

The one I shot at 35 like I said, didnt flinch so I got him in the heart.  But sometimes they do. My newest bow is def quieter but they all still make a little noise.  And have had deer looking right my way just as I shot or when it is real quite and they are spooky anyway.  You've never had a deer flinch from a bow shot?  Then consider yourself lucky. But I give that extra couple of inches for 35 to 45 yards in case they do.  I have had a deer jump string a few years ago and by taking a little bit of a lower shot haven't had a problem since.  

I struggled a bit with string jump in my early years.   I have observed that the trouble from that peaks at a range of 25 yards.  Everyone seems to understand that the closer the deer are, the less distance they can cover in the time it takes for the arrow to arrive.  Few seem to grasp the fact that the farther the deer are away, the less likely they are to flinch.   My experience has been that string jump is a non-issue beyond 40 yards, although I have only shot a single deer over that range with an arrow (technically a "bolt").  That buck was at 59 yards and he never flinched and never had any clue what hit him.   

There is a lot more to it than distance though, with the biggest factor being the "alert" status of the deer.  These days,  I really go to extremes to avoid shooting at "alert" deer with archery tackle.  That means no rattling or usage of a grunt call, or even a whistle to stop a walking deer.  It also is why I no longer hunt with a vertical bow.  With a crossbow, I don't have to worry about alerting them as I make the draw.  Those measures have paid off in no wounded and non-recovered deer for me in the last 13 years.  

Aiming for the heart is very a good idea though, because there is no way anyone can know for sure just how alert that deer is when you make the release.  Also, the broadhead does not mess up the heart like a bullet does, which might deprive me of my favorite Valantines day treat.   

Edited February 15, 2018 by wolc123

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

LMAO, oh Ive missed ALOT of deer, 3 just this past season (all with the gun this year though). Im sure there will be many more.

Are you sure they were misses ?  What "proof" of it do you have ?

The reason I ask is that the single biggest mistake I ever made as a hunter was 14 years ago, when I "assumed" I missed a buck with my ML.  I followed his tracks for over 300 yards in fresh snow, from where he stood when I shot, without locating a single drop of blood or any hair.   It turned out he piled up at 350, but I never found him until a week later. 3/4 eaten, with the help of the crows.

Since them I have discovered that fresh snow does not always "prove" that a shot was a miss.  Small drops of hot blood often fall right thru fresh snow, not leaving any trace on top.  Without an exit wound, the odds of that are very good, as was the case with that ML buck that most likely was single-lunged and struck right at or near my point of aim as he stood quartering away at 175 yards.  

In the last 13 seasons, I have killed and recovered one buck for sure that I would not have, and recovered another that I might not have, had I not assumed that EVERY shot was a hit until PROVEN otherwise.   I hope you realize that every time you pull the trigger, the odds of the bullet striking your point of aim is higher than any other spot.       

[Hunter007]

42 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Are you sure they were misses ?  What "proof" of it do you have ?

The reason I ask is that the single biggest mistake I ever made as a hunter was 14 years ago, when I "assumed" I missed a buck with my ML.  I followed his tracks for over 300 yards in fresh snow, from where he stood when I shot, without locating a single drop of blood or any hair.   It turned out he piled up at 350, but I never found him until a week later. 3/4 eaten, with the help of the crows.

Since them I have discovered that fresh snow does not always "prove" that a shot was a miss.  Small drops of hot blood often fall right thru fresh snow, not leaving any trace on top.  Without an exit wound, the odds of that are very good, as was the case with that ML buck that most likely was single-lunged and struck right at or near my point of aim as he stood quartering away at 175 yards.  

In the last 13 seasons, I have killed and recovered one buck for sure that I would not have, and recovered another that I might not have, had I not assumed that EVERY shot was a hit until PROVEN otherwise.   I hope you realize that every time you pull the trigger, the odds of the bullet striking your point of aim is higher than any other spot.       

Good point who knows how many deer get shot run off and the hunter thinks he missed because he does not see any blood  sign of the deer only for the  deer to die  in brush someplace . 

 

[fasteddie]

I thought I had missed a deer this past season . Waited a few minutes and got down to check . Went back and forth until I found blood . The deer was hit farther out in the field than I thought . Tracked it down and recovered it . Don't assume it wasn't hit even when there is no blood in the spot where it stood when you shot . 

[sodfather]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I struggled a bit with string jump in my early years.   I have observed that the trouble from that peaks at a range of 25 yards.  Everyone seems to understand that the closer the deer are, the less distance they can cover in the time it takes for the arrow to arrive.  Few seem to grasp the fact that the farther the deer are away, the less likely they are to flinch.   My experience has been that string jump is a non-issue beyond 40 yards, although I have only shot a single deer over that range with an arrow (technically a "bolt").  That buck was at 59 yards and he never flinched and never had any clue what hit him.   

There is a lot more to it than distance though, with the biggest factor being the "alert" status of the deer.  These days,  I really go to extremes to avoid shooting at "alert" deer with archery tackle.  That means no rattling or usage of a grunt call, or even a whistle to stop a walking deer.  It also is why I no longer hunt with a vertical bow.  With a crossbow, I don't have to worry about alerting them as I make the draw.  Those measures have paid off in no wounded and non-recovered deer for me in the last 13 years.  

Aiming for the heart is very a good idea though, because there is no way anyone can know for sure just how alert that deer is when you make the release.  Also, the broadhead does not mess up the heart like a bullet does, which might deprive me of my favorite Valantines day treat.   

Ugh this is such crap all of it...

You haven't hunted with a crossbow for 13 years??

Your wrong about the 40 yard deer theory.

You don't draw a bow on a deer on high alert just like you don't lift that crossbow of yours up to your shoulder on a high alert deer. ( Stop making your laziness switching to crossbow justified) Your crossbow shoots no faster than my compound . 

No wounded Deer or non recovery of deer in 13 years? That's the 3rd time I've heard you say that and it's crap on a stick. Do me a favor show me a picture of one of your bolts from this year.  Cause from the picture I seen of that " 300 pound doe" you shot this year the color of the vans looked a lot like the one I pulled out of that buck I shot this year. And we hunt the same neck of the woods. Just to big of a coincidence if ya ask me... 

[wolc123]

3 minutes ago, sodfather said:

Ugh this is such crap all of it...

You haven't hunted with a crossbow for 13 years??

Your wrong about the 40 yard deer theory.

You don't draw a bow on a deer on high alert just like you don't lift that crossbow of yours up to your shoulder on a high alert deer. ( Stop making your laziness switching to crossbow justified) Your crossbow shoots no faster than my compound . 

No wounded Deer or non recovery of deer in 13 years? That's the 3rd time I've heard you say that and it's crap on a stick. Do me a favor show me a picture of one of your bolts from this year.  Cause from the picture I seen of that " 300 pound doe" you shot this year the color of the vans looked a lot like the one I pulled out of that buck I shot this year. And we hunt the same neck of the woods. Just to big of a coincidence if ya ask me... 

How many years have you been hunting ?  I ask because you don't seem to know the difference between a crossbow bolt and a short arrow fired from a vertical bow with an overdraw.  Hint, not many crossbows use aluminum arrows.  

I killed three with a vertical bow over the span of 5-13 years ago.  I stopped using it when crossbows were legalized 4 years ago.   The last jumped the string so far (down and back) that he took the arrow thru the neck and juggular vein.  That made for a quick easy recovery anyhow.   

I think you know the secret of my 100 % recovery over that stretch.  If not, it is all based on keeping myself on good terms with He who controls the fate of all living things.  After you see the reaction of a few more deer, you will go along with the 25 yard peak string jump theory.  You can almost see it from the others who have posted on it on this thread.  

You sound confused.  I did post a picture of a 198 pound buck (approximate per the PA chest girth chart) on the back of my wife's grey van, but I think my doe was only around 126 pounds per the same chart.    

[Jeremy K]

That's one hell of an over draw to use a crossbow bolt for an arrow. 

[wolc123]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

That's one hell of an over draw to use a crossbow bolt for an arrow. 

He only posted a photo of a few inches of the front part of a broken arrow and claims to have seen but lost the back half. That would have showed all of us if it really came from a crossbow or a vertical.  Aluminum arrows fell out of popularity long before crossbows were legalized in NY, so based on that, my guess is that it came from a vertical bow.   We will never know for sure. 

[sodfather]

51 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

How many years have you been hunting ?  I ask because you don't seem to know the difference between a crossbow bolt and a short arrow fired from a vertical bow with an overdraw.  Hint, not many crossbows use aluminum arrows.  

I killed three with a vertical bow over the span of 5-13 years ago.  I stopped using it when crossbows were legalized 4 years ago.   The last jumped the string so far (down and back) that he took the arrow thru the neck and juggular vein.  That made for a quick easy recovery anyhow.   

I think you know the secret of my 100 % recovery over that stretch.  If not, it is all based on keeping myself on good terms with He who controls the fate of all living things.  After you see the reaction of a few more deer, you will go along with the 25 yard peak string jump theory.  You can almost see it from the others who have posted on it on this thread.  

You sound confused.  I did post a picture of a 198 pound buck (approximate per the PA chest girth chart) on the back of my wife's grey van, but I think my doe was only around 126 pounds per the same chart.    

Look I’ve been hunting for 30 years. Taking some years off for school, booze and women. I’m not claiming I know more about deer than you cause I probably don’t .I also don’t compare how many deer I’ve shot cause I haven’t shot many. But I don’t shoot every deer that walks by .  This is a picture of what I pulled out and a picture of the back half of your bolt. Prove me wrong and show us one of your bolts.

[Hunter007]

57 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

He only posted a photo of a few inches of the front part of a broken arrow and claims to have seen but lost the back half. That would have showed all of us if it really came from a crossbow or a vertical.  Aluminum arrows fell out of popularity long before crossbows were legalized in NY, so based on that, my guess is that it came from a vertical bow.   We will never know for sure. 

Many years ago I was told by my  archery instructor that even if the deer does not see the arrow it may just move or here something out of the ordinary and move .

That Is why he recommended . Not shooting past 20 yards granted this was over 30  years ago  and bows got faster but still  past 20 /30 yards your asking for trouble  Or lots of tracking .

Edited February 15, 2018 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

9 minutes ago, sodfather said:

Look I’ve been hunting for 30 years. Taking some years off for school, booze and women. I’m not claiming I know more about deer than you cause I probably don’t .I also don’t compare how many deer I’ve shot cause I haven’t shot many. But I don’t shoot every deer that walks by .  This is a picture of what I pulled out and a picture of the back half of your bolt. Prove me wrong and show us one of your bolts.

To me those look like bolts from a crossbow .

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Are you sure they were misses ?  What "proof" of it do you have ?

The reason I ask is that the single biggest mistake I ever made as a hunter was 14 years ago, when I "assumed" I missed a buck with my ML.  I followed his tracks for over 300 yards in fresh snow, from where he stood when I shot, without locating a single drop of blood or any hair.   It turned out he piled up at 350, but I never found him until a week later. 3/4 eaten, with the help of the crows.

Since them I have discovered that fresh snow does not always "prove" that a shot was a miss.  Small drops of hot blood often fall right thru fresh snow, not leaving any trace on top.  Without an exit wound, the odds of that are very good, as was the case with that ML buck that most likely was single-lunged and struck right at or near my point of aim as he stood quartering away at 175 yards.  

In the last 13 seasons, I have killed and recovered one buck for sure that I would not have, and recovered another that I might not have, had I not assumed that EVERY shot was a hit until PROVEN otherwise.   I hope you realize that every time you pull the trigger, the odds of the bullet striking your point of aim is higher than any other spot.       

Yes I was sure. Watching the deer after the shot, zero blood, hair or anything else where they were, etc. My scope had gotten bumped and after missing those deer (all in one day), I checked the rifle and found it to be off by quite a bit.

[wolc123]

18 hours ago, sodfather said:

Look I’ve been hunting for 30 years. Taking some years off for school, booze and women. I’m not claiming I know more about deer than you cause I probably don’t .I also don’t compare how many deer I’ve shot cause I haven’t shot many. But I don’t shoot every deer that walks by .  This is a picture of what I pulled out and a picture of the back half of your bolt. Prove me wrong and show us one of your bolts.

The last aluminum arrow I shot at a deer was more than 5 years ago.  I have been using carbons the last (4) years with my crossbow.   You did the right thing harvesting that wounded buck.  I am thankful he did not offer me a shot on the first weekend of crossbow season last year, or I might have been tempted to punch my tag on him.  That would have cost me that stout 3-1/2 year old that is squatting down my wife's minivan in that picture you posted.  Thanks again for your "good deed" in our hunting area.    

[Doewhacker]

21 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

The last aluminum arrow I shot at a deer was more than 5 years ago.  I have been using carbons the last (4) years with my crossbow.   You did the right thing harvesting that wounded buck.  I am thankful he did not offer me a shot on the first weekend of crossbow season last year, or I might have been tempted to punch my tag on him.  That would have cost me that stout 3-1/2 year old that is squatting down my wife's minivan in that picture you posted.  Thanks again for your "good deed" in our hunting area.    

I love how your deer grow in weight and age as the year passes. 

 

“This 2-1/2 year old, busted up 5-point with a 15-1/2" inside spread and 43" chest girth offered me a 30 yard shot at 4:45”

what a clown

[Doewhacker]

18 hours ago, Storm914 said:

but still  past 20 /30 yards your asking for trouble  Or lots of tracking .

Horse crap. You sound like maybe you don’t or haven’t bow hunted a lot. Maybe lacking experience you wouldn’t take a shot over 20 but that doesn’t make it a bad idea or impossible for the rest of us. 

As far as being able to shot and track ect, that’s what we are supposed to do. 

[NFA-ADK]

23 hours ago, Storm914 said:

I don't know for sure  but in the past In preshistoric times i think even before humans  there were birds of prey that went after the   young  of deer . So they could have the instinct to look up  from that still built in not to mention humans and there arrows and spears .

I think you are dwelling to deep for this.  Think about this:  After the last mass extinction no animals survived including dinosaurs so deer today are after that time period and would have no chance at those genes.  

"The Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event, which occurred approximately 66 million years ago (Ma), was a large-scale mass extinction of animal and plant species in a geologically short period of time."  Otherwise known as the K/T event.  

I think its more reaction to something unknown like stated before be it scent, movement, noise or other causing that fight of flight response.  If any is repeated enough that animal will become aware and always react to say a hunter in a stand or another that smokes or excessive bee's wax or regular deodorant or movement in trees. 

[ATbuckhunter]

19 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Many years ago I was told by my  archery instructor that even if the deer does not see the arrow it may just move or here something out of the ordinary and move .

That Is why he recommended . Not shooting past 20 yards granted this was over 30  years ago  and bows got faster but still  past 20 /30 yards your asking for trouble  Or lots of tracking .

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. There are many people who can accurately shoot way past 20-30 yards. NFA-ADK comes to mind actually. Ive shot next to him at our Archery club, along with some of the people we know and they can easily shoot 50 yards accurately on a deer. I personally don't shoot over 30 yards, but that because I don't practice out further very often.