Deer management draft proposal recently released by the DEC.

[Chevy]

If unit 8N (for example) is the only DMU in the area to have an early ML season, don't you think it would draw crowds from the surrounding DMU's that don't have that season trying to get in the the action?  I bet an early ML would have a big impact on archery season and would have gun hunters lined up to buy a new inline to shoot 200yds. 

[bubba]

has been said before and I think it needs saying again.  I am so glad I live in the north where we all hunt together and not so selfish about what is the best for me and screw you guys, with less deer and less opportunity.   

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am betting the only way you would hunt ML in 8N during that would be if you had applied for doe tags in that area. The plan said it was for population control and they want that to happen throught the permit process

[nyantler]

has been said before and I think it needs saying again.  I am so glad I live in the north where we all hunt together and not so selfish about what is the best for me and screw you guys, with less deer and less opportunity. 

I'm even more glad that there isn't really any changes that the DEC could make (other than no hunting season at all) that would change my hunting experience even a little. Changing dates, AR's, more doe permits, less doe permits... none of those things mean anything to me when it comes to me enjoying hunting... some of my best hunting years were years I didn't even take a deer... I think I said once before.. that if there was only one deer left in the world to hunt.. I would still have a great time hunting it!!

[phade]

I know for a fact that my WMU will have the MZ hunt if if is enacted...

Not a huge fan of a weeklong mz hunt in October.

I'm also a bit mixed on the youth hunt. Don't know why...I just am.

The youth hunt is 3 days....the ML is 4 days and does not even include a weekend.(as proposed). I am betting most of us wouldn't even know the ML is going on unless you are lucky enough to be able to hunt during the week. Part of me thinks I would like to see the neighbors doing it a little to chase the bucks over to the areas I can hunt...lol

Three day youth and four day mz is seven days of pressure - any way you slice it - bang sticks going off. At that time of the year the sun is up early and down late (relatively). Hunters will be hunting morning and evening shifts...especially those evenings after work.

In farmland, that means hitting those cut corn fields and the small woodlots. The same lots that bow hunters are in...regardless of getting the extra time in the woods. To be honest, I'd rather have the current opener and no MZ jammed into Oct. But, the biology supports it, so I can live with it. Just not a fan. I wonder if we can bring both weapons in the field...

Part of the allure for me when hunting, especially as a kid before I picked up a bow, was the opening weekend and feeling like one of the guys. The "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy has carried over into hunting and now we need special weekends to give attention to kids - when as a parent - that's your responsibility or that of the hunting mentor.

Not saying things are the same or that the intent is wrong...just that I think the approach is off the mark. I love the education efforts that are documented...creating a mag for the kids, etc. That goes a long way.

The tag structure is interesting...but...if there is an overpopulation of does causing the MZ hunt...people will likely be able to get the necessary tags to come in and hunt it. I imagine that since they'll be taking away the statewide antlerless tag for bow/ms hunters, that they'll have to replace it somehow with another DMP draw? Otherwise, they're eliminating a bunch of potential does being shot by the group since you're removing a full tag from the aresenal per hunter.

[G-Man]

Actually 'm glad if they push bow to oct 1, and for the muzzloader season..there is duck and pheasant going on the same time bow is now! plus its during the week so how many will want to fill a doe tag then? i muzzleload and bowhunt and i will take a doe with a bow over muzzloader/gun any day. The fact is the deer numbers are extremly high in areas and people don't shoot enough doe so the state by mandate needs to have way to harvest more so the herd is managed. This might even open up areas closed to hunting if the bow setback is reduced to 150' whick means a lot more hunters can hunt close to home especially with the price of fuel. For those that need/prefer the long walks/stalks on whitetail this probably doesn't even raise your attention.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yeah...I am notsure how they will handle the antlerless tag for bow muzzleloader. Typically NY goes about any restructuring slowly......sometimes at a snail pace. They did make a comment in that report that they would preferto handle all doe harvest through the permit system. They said in areas where dp's drop in issued numbers. They see an increase in bow ml hunting and harvest. Guess we take the does with them when we don't draw tags.

I have to agree with you on the youth hunt. I have mixed feelings. On one side I think it may make for a great experience and offer a better opportunity for them to harvest...thus getting them hooked. On the other hand is it making their expectations unrealistic and not giving them a flavor of what this is allabout anyway......not sure....almost seems like they are making this little league where you don't keep score because you don't want the losers to feel bad. I spent 8 years following my father around the deer woods before I was old enough to hunt.....I learned a lot then....especially that the most important thing about hunting wasn't the harvest.

[phade]

I do like the way they are attacking the DMPs...if they compensate for the removed tag (because they want to take down the does), they will likely replace it with the avilability to take another DMP in areas that allow for it - at least that's what I assume.

I don't see them removing a full tag without some sort of compensation because it would reduce the take...which appears to go against the grain of their changes.

I do understand the intent of the youth weekend...but I just worry that there will be many "one and done" hunters bred from this experience since it's not realistic. That and I wonder how much emphasis there will be on taking any legal deer vs. the mature buck mindset.

I learned a bunch as well growing my chops in hunting...that first deer was a real trophy to me. I did it just like my father and everyone else in the hunting party...openign day of the "adult" regular season. Lots of memories there. Unsure if that same experience would translate into individudal hunting forays designed just for kids.

[RTF]

I don't see them removing a full tag without some sort of compensation because it would reduce the take

What full tag ?

[G-Man]

no more either sex tag for bow or muzzleloader... in  proposal..  so why buy extra tag untill you need it..they will lose lots of muzzleloader purchases... they only want to control doe thru dmp...

[phade]

If you buy a super sportsman (bow mz reg) you get your reg season buck tag, an antlerless statewide tag, and an either sex tag. So...three tags. They want to remove the ability to take does from the tags because they want to control them via DMP.

I'm assuming that means with all this in effect, you'd get a reg season tag and a buck tag for bow/mz....how the dmp/antlerless tags would be handled...I have no idea. Maybe we get a third DMP?

[G-Man]

you might have to get your bow/muzz licence for a specfic dmp?..or they would have to issue 3 bucktags ? it will probably not happen as to many variables...or worse yet you get only 1 buck tag for all three seasons...they will lose licence sales if that happens..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you might have to get your bow/muzz licence for a specfic dmp?..or they would have to issue 3 bucktags ? it will probably not happen as to many variables...or worse yet you get only 1 buck tag for all three seasons...they will lose licence sales if that happens..

There is a lot of support out there for the one buck only. Personally I wouldn't care if I only got a chance at one buck.....as long as I get doe tags.

Not sure how this will all play out though. I am worried about guys who live in low or no doe areas.....how will the loss of the either sex or antlerless tag effect their season. I can't see it having a big impact on me since my hunting lands are in high percentage areas for permits. I think they better put some brain power into this before they move on it. Not everyone is able to travel to higher density areas or has access to land in these areas.

[nyantler]

The truth is that they really don't know what the hell they are doing yet... they make proposals I think to see how bad hunters jump down their throat... anyone that stops buying a deer hunting license just because they take away a few tags... I guess isn't really that into "HUNTING" anyway. Gotta start teaching those that are suppose to be teaching the youngsters about hunting that it isn't just about how many.. but about how much fun.

[Larry]

what i like is if wmu doesent have any dmp's you can't kill a doe in that wmu with a bow or Ml

[RTF]

Taking away the ability to harvest a doe with my bow would most likely put an end to my bowhunting. I always encounter doe's while bowhunting. I'll see 9 doe's to every buck during the bowhunting season. I bowhunt to put meet on the table.

[DIAMOND D]

ditto Clifford. Same deal here, when bow hunting doe's are what I put down with consistency. Bucks are another matter....

[Doc]

The truth is that they really don't know what the hell they are doing yet... they make proposals I think to see how bad hunters jump down their throat...

Yup! that certainly is their M.O.  You always get these little feelers (publically released "proposals") sent out to the public just to see what the reaction is. No significant reaction - then that is what they pursue. Big negative reaction - the issue silently goes away. Old political trick ... lol.

[SteveB]

Taking away the ability to harvest a doe with my bow would most likely put an end to my bowhunting. I always encounter doe's while bowhunting. I'll see 9 doe's to every buck during the bowhunting season. I bowhunt to put meet on the table.

Acyually what I believe is being suggested is that does will still be available by the dmp system where the herd needs or can sustain does being taken. I am fortunate to hunt in a fairly high population area. But I have always wondered at the wisdom of doe tags for all bow and mz for areas where there are no dmp's and population's are low. This is not an indorsement in anyway for what seems to be a very unclear proposal.

[nyantler]

Taking away the ability to harvest a doe with my bow would most likely put an end to my bowhunting. I always encounter doe's while bowhunting. I'll see 9 doe's to every buck during the bowhunting season. I bowhunt to put meet on the table.

If you bowhunt to put meat on the table.. then I would think you would bowhunt regardless of which sex you could hunt.. I would think that the importance of feeding your family would make you just try harder for the meat of a buck...especially seeing how you only have a window from about Oct. to Dec. to make sure your family has enough meat for the year.

[growalot]

    I am betting the only way you would hunt ML in 8N during that  would be if you had applied for doe tags in that area. The plan said it  was for population control and they want that to happen throught the  permit process             

The problem with this is they over issued doe permits for 8N for too many years and as of last year they are reversing this...so that makes no scense and if they wanted to increase harvest then just have a doe and buck tag issued for each bow hunter...no applying for the DMP

Two gun seasons mixed into a season where ppl are hunting in full camo with bows....Wow what a wonderful idea that is!...The youth that accidentally shoots a bow hunter will surely have a memorable time...and gee 245-300+ grain bullets whizzing through the woods with camo clad guys  hunting...hey no room for an accident there?...Whats next ...mandatory orange for all bow hunters?...

They aren't adding to the bow season...They are taking at least 3 days away....unless your on well guarded private property...or feel very very lucky

[Chevy]

I am betting the only way you would hunt ML in 8N during that would be if you had applied for doe tags in that area. The plan said it was for population control and they want that to happen throught the permit process

8N was just an example. Let's say they opened 8H to an early ML season. Gunners would know this in advance and simply purchase DMP's for that unit flooding the woods. Not good for archery season! And definately not safe for me as I stalk through the woods in full camo hoping not to get shot by a 15 yr old.    But if we complain about safety I'm sure the DEC will just close archery season for that week. 

Again I don't see the need for any early gun seasons. Lowering the legal age to gun hunt should get the kids interested early. no need for a special season now. 

[Localqdm]

Well said chevy.  I hunt 8h, and if they make an early mz season, it will seriously hurt the bow hunting here.  So many guys mz hunt here they will be out for the early season pushing every small wood lot around.  Don't know that the deer would go back to there daytime routines before the opening day shotgun assault. 

And I totally agree w/grow  why even think about putting more guns in the woods, (esp kids) while guys are hidden in camo for the short bow season.  We already have perhaps the LONGEST gun season in America, why make it longer at the expense of a quieter woods and those who enjoy it that way?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

                                         

The problem with this is they over issued doe permits for 8N for too many years and as of last year they are reversing this...so that makes no scense and if they wanted to increase harvest then just have a doe and buck tag issued for each bow hunter...no applying for the DMP

Two gun seasons mixed into a season where ppl are hunting in full camo with bows....Wow what a wonderful idea that is!...The youth that accidentally shoots a bow hunter will surely have a memorable time...and gee 245-300+ grain bullets whizzing through the woods with camo clad guys  hunting...hey no room for an accident there?...Whats next ...mandatory orange for all bow hunters?...

They aren't adding to the bow season...They are taking at least 3 days away....unless your on well guarded private property...or feel very very lucky

Grow....I think you are missing the point on the doe tags. They want better control on the harvests and I agree with this approach. It should help stop what you have seen in your area. The does get harvested by the area, not a tag that can be used anywhere in the state. I evvision then issuing more doe tags to make up for the bow/ml loss of harvest but it is more easily controled. say an area get low on populaton for what ever reason. they just don't issue tags for the area the next year and no does are taken with bow or ML. The way it stands in 8N now the rebound of the population will take longer since there is still harvest of does down there now.

I aslo don't see how everyone is saying that they are taking days away. they add 15. allow 3 days (Sat, Sun, Mon) in that for youth, allow another 4 for the early ML (Tues, wed, thurs, Fri). That is still an add of 8 days if you didn't want to hunt in the woods with them. And let's be honest. there are people walking around in full camo in all the gun seasons now. I haven't seen the carnage that some are forcasting.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well said chevy.  I hunt 8h, and if they make an early mz season, it will seriously hurt the bow hunting here.  So many guys mz hunt here they will be out for the early season pushing every small wood lot around.  And I totally agree w/grow  why even think about putting more guns in the woods, (esp kids) while guys are hidden in camo for the short bow season.  We already have perhaps the LONGEST gun season in America, why make it longer at the expense of a quieter woods and those who enjoy it that way.

They are proposing 4 days during the week. How many do you think will be involved in that season? Personally, except for Thanksgiving week I don't get to hunt during the week. I won't even know they are out there.