chas0218

Blew it tonight

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Welp, started out to be a good night got in the woods around 4:30 after getting out of work and hour and half drive. Everyhting was going good had a button buck and doe fawn bed down behind me 30 yards. Watched for a while glanced at facebook a little here and there. About 5:15 here comes doe with 2 fawns and another fawn behind her. Looked again and another deer in a scrape saw some head gear but unsure of its size. He starts trailing the doe, im glassing and holy bejesus here comes a monster 10 point. Doe skirts me at around 50 yards. And the big buck stays low. I tried grunting, snort wheeze notta, too locked on that single doe. Well the doe with fawns got a nervous and decided to walk up the hill right to me. I'm hoping and praying that single doe follows, and she does. Holy crap here he comes. Walks 25 yards wide open shooting i stop him he is just looking to see what bleated. I settle the pin down on his heart but thinking last minute the angle is too steep and raise up to the lungs.

 

Well you guessed it he jumped the string dropped a good 8" and went right over his back. If i had put it on the heart probably would have lunged him easy. Good part is after the shot he ran about 30 yards stood there for a quick second and qalked off after the doe.

 

Look at my phone 6:01 this all happened in an hour and half of being on stand. Had a great sit but wish i had a picture of a big 10 point to go along with this story.

 

Here is I think one side of his shed last year.777315d3668b849fb229a4e909e2899e.jpgcf86c81a52d7dcd6f40a169f70e74d5b.jpg

 

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That sucks dude , good luck sleeping tonight . Nothing like an entire night of playing a shot through your head over and over again.

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I remember all the messed up opportunities as clearly as the  successful  hunts maybe more. Hope you get a second shot.. 

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Sorry to hear that, at least it was not a wound, and everything happens for a reason I guess.  

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29 minutes ago, Bionic said:

Sorry to hear that, at least it was not a wound, and everything happens for a reason I guess.  

Agree.also he didn't spook too bad.hopefully he gives u another chance.as Jeremy said,good luck sleeping tonight!

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2 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Well you guessed it he jumped the string dropped a good 8" and went right over his back

Sorry you missed the shot but on a positive note you missed him completely instead of a bad hit and that is a good thing. I would rather miss any day of the week than have to wonder about the shot. I never shoot anticipating a jumped string but it does happens. I shoot for a kill and if he/she jumps it that is a chance I take. Don't beat yourself up. A clean miss is not a bad thing.

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Thanks for posting this.  It takes guts to post your own f-ups and many of the keyboard warriors here lack those.   By "going public" with this, you will help countless others avoid the same mistakes and hopefully get some good suggestions on how to avoid a repeat yourself.   It sounds like you already figured out one way (aim low on an alert deer).   Just how low is the question.  I think you grossly underestimated how much he ducked at 8".   I can tell you from recent experience that a mature buck (est 3.5 year old), measures about 43" around the chest behind the front legs.  Looking at last years shed, which you posted, that buck was probably even older and bigger this year.  That means that if you held for a center lung shot, he had to duck at least 20", for the arrow to miss clean over his back.    

The most important factor here is the attitude of the buck at the instant you released your arrow.   When you grunted earlier, you told him that there was another buck in the area.  That got him "ready" for an attack.  You also "stopped" him with a bleat.   It is hard to imagine a situation where a buck would be on a higher state of alert than that one was after hearing that bleat.  That is the instant you released your arrow from a range of 25 yards.   That is the exact range where the effect of "string jump" is the greatest.  Closer don't give them as much time to move as far and farther is more out of the "danger-zone" where they react to the sound of a bow's release.   

In more than 30 bow-seasons, I have seen all this before, unfortunately multiple times.   I was never so lucky as to have my arrow "miss them clean".  I struck 3 in the shoulder blade, not getting any penetration, in my early years.  They always duck down and back.   The last deer I killed with my vertical bow must have been alerted by the sight of my draw.  That stopped him about 25 yards out.  When I released my arrow, aimed at the center of his chest as he stood quartering away, he ducked way down and back, taking the arrow thru the neck.   That made for an easy recovery but was certainly not where I intended to hit him.   

I have two suggestions for you.  Aiming low on alert deer is the one you already figured out.  The second is to avoid shooting at alert deer altogether.   You might be able to eliminate the "stopping" of walking deer, by practicing at moving targets with your bow.   A balloon, tied into the middle of a tire swing, in front of a round bale might be good.  You could tie a rope to it and release it, trying to pop the balloon with your arrow at various points in the swing when you release it.  That would give you experience at different speeds.   It is a lot easier to hit a target moving at a steady speed than it is to hit one that accelerates quickly and unpredictably after you release your arrow.   I eliminated the "alerting" of them catching the draw motion by switching to a crossbow at the earliest opportunity (like today).

Throughout the year, I take thousands of shots at moving targets.  It is easy, cheap, fast, quiet, and convenient for me to do that by shooting at a can hung from the tab by a wire from a tree branch behind our back deck, with an adult-stocked Daisy red-ryder bb gun.  All that practice made killing two moving deer last  season a piece of cake with both shots striking very close to my point of aim.   I had called the buck in from about 100 yards away, by making a sound like a buck clearing a scrape (I pawed the leaves out of my tree blind).   He approached at a fast walk.  Cruising along 30 yards away and without warning, he caught my crossbow bolt thru his chest.  During gun season, I heard a doe approaching at a fast run.  I aimed at an opening she was headed for and hit her in the shoulder blade, with a 12 gauge slug, when she reached it from a range of about 40 yards.      

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Thanks everyone, very true the clean miss is a blessing in disguise.

I'm heading out to try her again playing the wind game today as this afternoon doesn't seem like the best time to be in a tree.

Im thinking that set is shot and he will be avoiding it, they dont get big by being dumb. I have my aluminum portable and climbing sticks im goin to throw up on this field edge he came in on hopefully i can get another shot tonight or tomorrow A.M.

Good luck everyone. Didnt get much sleep last night knowing i missed him. O well can't shoot them all.

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I've yet to see a deer duck my string, but it could be because of what wolc123 mentions re. alert deer. I've never stopped one. However, shooting at a walking deer at 25 yards (I've done a couple with vertical at low 20's) is risky itself.

Sorry to hear about experience OP. I had a pretty crap situation a few weeks ago and I'm very strongly considering not going hunting with my vertical next year until I get a camera on it. Just something happened I still am at a loss to explain, and as anybody who's seen my posts can vouch for glossing over facts and details is not in my nature, so it was weird :)

Anyway, as for ducking at 25 yards the sound of the bow got to the deer in 66 ms. I don't know what their reaction time is, let's give an extremely fast 100 ms to recognize something is amiss and the muscles start firing accordingly to drop the deer, so 166 ms after firing the deer started to drop. Let's say your arrow is going at 240fps average, 312 ms travel time total. This means the deer was able to drop for 146 ms. Using this calculator https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224835316 it turns out an object released can fall 4" in 146 ms.

I'm not sure how that impacts your analysis of the event. The only unknown in the above calculation is the true reaction time of a deer.

I'm probably going to tape my phone to my crossbow today/tomorrow and set it to slow-motion mode before I shoot. Combined with the lighted nocks I hunt with, I'll be able to replay in detail anything that happens.

 

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17 minutes ago, Core said:

I've yet to see a deer duck my string, but it could be because of what wolc123 mentions re. alert deer. I've never stopped one. However, shooting at a walking deer at 25 yards (I've done a couple with vertical at low 20's) is risky itself.

Sorry to hear about experience OP. I had a pretty crap situation a few weeks ago and I'm very strongly considering not going hunting with my vertical next year until I get a camera on it. Just something happened I still am at a loss to explain, and as anybody who's seen my posts can vouch for glossing over facts and details is not in my nature, so it was weird :)

Anyway, as for ducking at 25 yards the sound of the bow got to the deer in 66 ms. I don't know what their reaction time is, let's give an extremely fast 100 ms to recognize something is amiss and the muscles start firing accordingly to drop the deer, so 166 ms after firing the deer started to drop. Let's say your arrow is going at 240fps average, 312 ms travel time total. This means the deer was able to drop for 146 ms. Using this calculator https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224835316 it turns out an object released can fall 4" in 146 ms.

I'm not sure how that impacts your analysis of the event. The only unknown in the above calculation is the true reaction time of a deer.

I like the science.  I remembered having this discussion when we were young hunters . We did an experiment.  With my back turned to the shooters back, I could hit the ground at about the same time the arrow hit the target at 30 yds.. and I'm sure a deer has faster reflexes than me..lol

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Saw a huge 8 point on morning sit unfortunately didnt have a shot. His g2s were insane about 16" and spread 20"+. Truly awesome how big this thing was.

 

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A interesting article:

The most painful lesson from last season was likely the most valuable, as they always are. I had two very nice bucks get away because they “jumped the string.” In other words, they dropped at the sound of the shot to load up their legs before leaping away, thus unknowingly eluding the arrow. While not a new phenomenon, this was not something I was used to when hunting in the Midwest; however, the more people I talked to about it, the more I realized this is a major problem for many bowhunters.

I’ve had more does than bucks drop at the sound of the shot. I thought that a relaxed buck would rarely drop at the shot and that even alert bucks only dropped occasionally. Well, that was my old opinion and it has since been shattered by the events of last season.

Success or failure often boils down to one quick decision: What are you going to do with an alert buck? I ran into this tough spot with two bucks that were walking past my stands last season, a common event during the rut. Both bucks were 30 yards away. I drew my bow and then stopped them with a mouth grunt. Both bucks locked up, presenting the nice still, broadside shot I sought. At the shot, they dropped as if a trapdoor had opened beneath them.

The first escapee was bad enough, but when the second one got away three weeks later, I was heartbroken. I have grappled with this dilemma ever since. Should I try to shoot them walking at that distance? A 30-yard walking shot is certainly no slam-dunk. Where should I aim if I stop them? After rolling the situation around in my head for several months, I finally decided I would get some answers.

Understanding the Situation

I film all my hunts now. After going back and watching the footage of those string jumpers frame-by-frame, it was clear that neither buck began to drop until the arrow was nearly 20 yards from the bow. I was shooting an arrow at about 290 fps, so it was a fast arrow.

That told me that on shots less than 20 yards, it is possible to aim for the center of the kill zone without worrying about the deer dropping much. Past 20 yards however, I would have to aim low when shooting at alert bucks.

When I showed the videos of these hunts on my website, I had a number of emails come in from hunters suggesting I shoot a faster arrow. Some suggested that I not stop them even at 30 yards, but rather just shoot them walking. Another suggested that I wait until they just begin to take their first step after stopping them and then shoot.

I could also try to make the bow quieter, but I have yet to figure out how quiet a bow needs to be before an alert deer ignores it. I don’t think it is possible to make it quiet enough. I’ve seen deer that turned inside out even when I was shooting a very quiet bow.

I did increase my arrow speed slightly after November—up to about 305 fps—but that isn’t going to make a huge difference. The real key to success on alert bucks is to know where to aim.

Where to Aim

I recently performed a mathematical study to determine how far a deer can drop between the time it hears the shot and the arrival of the arrow. Of course, a faster arrow gets to the deer sooner so the deer doesn’t drop as far. This is especially important, in my opinion, on shots from 25 to 35 yards. At this distance, the deer is close enough to hear even a quiet bow, yet it is far enough that it can drop a good distance.

I had to make a few assumptions to come up with final numbers. For example, I estimated that it takes a deer .15 second to begin moving after the bow fires. This includes the time it takes for sound to reach the deer when it is 30 yards away. My estimate is based on the number of frames from the video we counted from the bow firing until the bucks started to drop.

Using this approach, I determined that, at 30 yards from a treestand, a deer can drop roughly 14.8 inches by the time an arrow moving at 260 fps gets to it. A deer may even begin to turn slightly by the time the arrow makes it there. Now if you speed up the arrow to 300 fps, the deer will drop roughly 8.8 inches by the time the arrow gets there. That’s a 6-inch difference, a very important improvement.

The average whitetail stands between 36 and 40 inches high at the top of the shoulder—especially big bucks may be 42 inches high. And on average the kill zone (the heart-lung area) is about 10 inches wide. So, when aiming a 260-fps arrow at a buck that appears alert at 30 yards, you will have to hold below the bottom of the deer’s lungs (14.8 inches is a long way). It is hard to make yourself do that when you don’t know for sure how the deer will react to the shot. A buck might drop at the shot or it might not. You will only know for sure after you release the string. I would much rather have a fast arrow and aim at the bottom of the kill zone. The buck is going to drop some, as they almost all do when alert. If the buck drops the full distance, I still should be in the kill zone. If the buck drops only a little, I will hit low vitals or dead center, both acceptable. A fast arrow makes a big difference.

Both are important, but given the choice, I’ll take the fast arrow over the quiet bow every time. For that reason, I think the best setup is a fast arrow (one that weighs about 6 grains per pound of draw force) from the quietest bow you can find. Speed takes priority in this situation.

Aim increasingly low on any shot past 20 yards. In my opinion, shots past 30 yards at alert game are too sketchy to justify with a bow and arrow. Game is quicker than you think. If you don’t read and adjust to this alert state correctly, you are going to miss critical opportunities. 

 

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Sister managed to seal the deal on the big 8 i saw when big bro pushed an area he had a hinkering he might be.9e9bf72d306fa83a6c316b91ee1a9a0d.jpg

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Sister managed to seal the deal on the big 8 i saw when big bro pushed an area he had a hinkering he might be.9e9bf72d306fa83a6c316b91ee1a9a0d.jpg&key=3898b08b3c491051fcb1c82bc137c563cecb0088f8e26e5508be8e9367848da2

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Congrats!! Nice buck.

So I gotta ask is your sister single and does she come with said hunting land??


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Congrats!! Nice buck.

So I gotta ask is your sister single and does she come with said hunting land??


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Thanks, she was beyond excited. We have taken some real nice deer off this property. Sorry but she's not single and the land is spoken for. Haha
WOWZA!  some mass on that beast !  Nice buck.  Congrats to your sis
Thanks, sad part is the picture doesn't do it justice. The bases were bigger around than redbull cans or a touch bigger than bud light cans. Truly impressive deer. I passed him 2 years ago during rifle in the same area.

We figired the rough score to be 147" with 23" inside spread.

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