LIVE From The Woods 2020 - Let's hear stories and see some pictures!

[Lawdwaz]

39 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

I’ll pop the next one in Ham for Larry. I had a 10pt at 57 yards in October. Standing still. I think a lot of people on this forum would have flung one into the ribs/guts and hoped for the best. I didn’t think it was the right thing to do.

 

 

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You're pointing a pretty sharp stick at "a lot of the people on this forum" with that statement. 

I know you like to bust my balls about the heart & lungs left in the chest cavity and the ham shot.  Oh and the mathematical error I made in the 8th inch measurements on my buck last year for your "Quest For 1000".   That's OK, perfection is something I haven't perfected yet, LOL.

I'm sure when you finally kill a good buck it'll all go as scripted in 2nd grade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BizCT]

How many of those bucks were taken with archery tackle? 

Hunting for likes seems for your speed . It’s a generational thing we understand 

You're pointing a pretty sharp stick at "a lot of the people on this forum" with that statement. 

I know you like to bust my balls about the heart & lungs left in the chest cavity and the ham shot.  Oh and the mathematical error I made in the 8th inch measurements on my buck last year for your "Quest For 1000".   That's OK, perfection is something I haven't perfected yet, LOL.

I'm sure when you finally kill a good buck it'll all go as scripted in 2nd grade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I truly want to do it my way and it will mean a lot to me. Killing a doe or small buck is not why I decided to start bowhunting in 2017. My last doe was 2000, and my next will be never unless it’s a piebald or albino.

 

Of course, my odds would greatly increase if I hunted higher population areas or from a treestand. However, If I can kill a nice buck from the ground, with no blind or cover, just sitting on a chair or ground being as still as possible that would mean a lot to me. I’d take 1 buck that way over 100 bucks from a treestand. That’s what would make me happy and that’s why I hunt. It’s important for everyone to hunt for the reasons that make you happy. For me, seeing Arcade get his nice buck from the ground without a blind is the buck of the year on the forum. I don’t care if others don’t agree, but that’s my personal belief.

 

Edit- and Jay, wouldn’t hunting for likes be killing every deer legally possible? I do the opposite. I don’t kill 5-7 deer per year just for fun.

 

 

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[TreeGuy]

In all seriousness, I truly want to do it my way and it will mean a lot to me. Killing a doe or small buck is not why I decided to start bowhunting in 2017. My last doe was 2000, and my next will be never unless it’s a piebald or albino.

Of course, my odds would greatly increase if I hunted higher population areas or from a treestand. However, If I can kill a nice buck from the ground, with no blind or cover, just sitting on a chair or ground being as still as possible that would mean a lot to me. I’d take 1 buck that way over 100 bucks from a treestand. That’s what would make me happy and that’s why I hunt. It’s important for everyone to hunt for the reasons that make you happy. For me, seeing Arcade get his nice buck from the ground without a blind is the buck of the year on the forum. I don’t care if others don’t agree, but that’s my personal belief.


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I'll take the 100 from the treestand. But that's just me.

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[BizCT]

I'll take the 100 from the treestand. But that's just me.

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And that’s fine. That’s the point. Hunt for what makes you happy. It’s like fishing- to some guys it’s fly fishing for 11” trout, for others it’s big lakes, or hard ice, or saltwater, live bait vs trolling, etc.


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[sodfather]

24 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

And that’s fine. That’s the point. Hunt for what makes you happy. It’s like fishing- to some guys it’s fly fishing for 11” trout, for others it’s big lakes, or hard ice, or saltwater, live bait vs trolling, etc.


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A wise man once said live bait is the crossbow of the fishing world 

[TreeGuy]

And that’s fine. That’s the point. Hunt for what makes you happy. It’s like fishing- to some guys it’s fly fishing for 11” trout, for others it’s big lakes, or hard ice, or saltwater, live bait vs trolling, etc.


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Nobody fishes for the videos

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[chrisw]

 
I’ll pop the next one in Ham for Larry. I had a 10pt at 57 yards in October. Standing still. I think a lot of people on this forum would have flung one into the ribs/guts and hoped for the best. I didn’t think it was the right thing to do.
 
 
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So let me get this straight? You wouldn't take a shot at a buck at 57yds, but you'll shoot at at red fox frontal at 33... So the vitals on a facing red fox are probably 3" wide, while a broadside buck at 57yds is probably 10"+. The math isn't adding up for me. Your condemning us for taking risky or "bad" shots, after you yourself made a bad shot? So now us forum guys just "fling arrows and hope for the best?" What made you so bitter all of a sudden? People lose and wound animals every day, it sucks, I feel awful for the critters. But it happens, some can be avoided, some not. Maybe there's pieces of the story i didn't get, and at first I thought you were poking fun with the 1% thing, now I'm not so sure?

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[BizCT]

So let me get this straight? You wouldn't take a shot at a buck at 57yds, but you'll shoot at at red fox frontal at 33... So the vitals on a facing red fox are probably 3" wide, while a broadside buck at 57yds is probably 10"+. The math isn't adding up for me. Your condemning us for taking risky or "bad" shots, after you yourself made a bad shot? So now us forum guys just "fling arrows and hope for the best?" What made you so bitter all of a sudden? People lose and wound animals every day, it sucks, I feel awful for the critters. But it happens, some can be avoided, some not. Maybe there's pieces of the story i didn't get, and at first I thought you were poking fun with the 1% thing, now I'm not so sure?

 

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Simple. I hadn’t practiced out to 57yds. There’s quite a drop between at 57yds using my single 25yds pin. That’s my point- people take shots they never practiced before

 

 

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[BizCT]

A wise man once said live bait is the crossbow of the fishing world 

 

The treestand of the world, not xbow

 

Do you put your bow down and use a rifle or shotgun? If so, your point makes no sense. There’s thousands of guys out there who only bowhunt regardless of season.

 

 

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[Robhuntandfish]

WTH ..... is it off season already.......say it aint so.......  Im still hunting damn it !!!  lol 

Not today but soon !

[Fletch]

19 degrees 3-3 inches of snow
Still snowing a bit
Deer moved during break in snow overnight by the tracks
Up in the new ladder no heat this morn
Good luck out there!


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[Robhuntandfish]

3 minutes ago, Fletch said:

19 degrees 3-3 inches of snow
Still snowing a bit
Deer moved during break in snow overnight by the tracks
Up in the new ladder no heat this morn
Good luck out there!


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you da man!

[BizCT]

WTH ..... is it off season already.......say it aint so.......  Im still hunting damn it !!!  lol 
Not today but soon !

Agree 100%. I’d rather not muddy up this thread. Any “elitist” bow only guys can certainly PM me.


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[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

11 hours ago, Yorehntr said:

Idk, probably deerage.com. Seems to be the one I see mentioned most

You can do it  yourself ..

This is a two part explanation and will tell you all you need to know..

 

[sodfather]

29 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

The treestand of the world, not xbow

 

Do you put your bow down and use a rifle or shotgun? If so, your point makes no sense. There’s thousands of guys out there who only bowhunt regardless of season.

 

 

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I put my bow down and replace it with Covid 

[steve863]

 

Biz, you should stick to gun hunting.  As you see here Bowhunters can be a bit crazy.  LOL

 

 

[BizCT]

 
Biz, you should stick to gun hunting.  As you see here Bowhunters can be a bit crazy.  LOL
 
 

I didn’t shotgun hunt this year. Only bow locally and 2 days rifle in WNY


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[phade]

I'll be out of work early to get in a PM hunt today for the last two-ish hours. One of my direct report managers hunts and got a MZ last year so we're taking him out for the PM. He is excited and alot of does and small bucks on cam so far this AM; might be a chance.

Edited December 17, 2020 by phade

[Yorehntr]

2 hours ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

You can do it  yourself ..

This is a two part explanation and will tell you all you need to know..

 

I’ve already aged it by tooth wear, and have had someone more experienced do it also. Tooth wear isn’t generally  known to be as exact as cementum though, especially once you’re up over the 6.5 y/o range. 

If anything, sending the the teeth out, will allow a great opportunity  to compare the 2 aging techniques 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Yorehntr

[BizCT]

1 minute ago, Yorehntr said:

I’ve already aged it by tooth wear, and have had someone more experienced do it also. Tooth wear isn’t generally  Not known to be as exact as cementum though, especially once you’re up over the 6.5 y/o range. 
 

 

Agree. It seems there are so many factors to tooth wear, that makes it such a guessing game on deer over 2.5. Below is a copy & paste on the accuracies from deerage.com

In a study done by Kenneth L. Hamlin et al. of the Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks ( Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449) accuracy rates of cementum annuli were 97.3% for elk through age 14, 92.6% for mule deer through age 14, and 85.1% for white-tailed deer through 9 years old.

Tooth eruption or tooth replacement is a highly reliable way to age mammals until they have all their permanent teeth. In whitetails you can accurately place deer as 6 months old, 18 months old, or 2 ½ or older using this easily learned technique.

This is probably a good time to bring up one of the most popular and prevalent myths of how to age game mammals, molar wear aging. This technique suggests that we should be able to determine the age of a mammal by looking at the wear on the molars. Sort of like determining the age of your tires by tread wear. In the same study by Hamlin referred to above; the accuracy of molar wear aging was 62.3% for mule deer, 42.9% for whitetails, and 50% for elk in the 3-4 year classes, 16% for elk 5 years old. They ultimately concluded that “The accuracy provided by the cementum annuli method is necessary to determine whether various physical and population parameters change significantly with age of the animal.” So what is the source of this popular myth of molar wear aging? In 1949 Wildlife Biologist C.W. Severinghaus published a study “Tooth Development and Wear as a Criteria of Age in White-tailed Deer” Journal of Wildlife Management 13:195-215. In this study he suggested two methods of aging; Eruption or tooth replacement aging and Molar wear aging. Subsequent studies since 1949 have supported his eruption aging results, but no study has been able to validate his hypothesis concerning molar wear aging. In fact in addition to the Hamlin study cited above here are some more comments by wildlife biologists in recent years:

….this widely used technique (molar wear) is very inaccurate for classifying adult deer…. (Ken Gee, Wildlife Biologist, Noble Foundation Wildlife Unit 1996 study)
We believe age-specific information and conclusions drawn….using the tooth-wear aging technique to “determine” ages of adult white-tail deer are unfounded…Review of all other published data sets using known-age deer supports this conclusion.(Wildlife Society Bulletin 2002, 30(2):387-393 Ken Gee et al.)
Ages assigned by … wear criteria were not reliable….. (Kenneth Hamlin et al. 2000 Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449)
….we conclude that tooth replacement and wear should be used for deer <2-1/2 years old, while cementum annuli should be used for deer >3-1/2 years old. (Mickey W. Hellickson, Ph.D. King Ranch Chief Wildlife Biologist 2007)
Curiously this molar wear aging is still part of the course curriculum taught to current wildlife biology students. That is probably a key reason that the myth continues.

In conclusion, if someone wants to really know the age of mature trophy game mammals, the only choice is cementum annu

[Fletch]

Well it snowed lightly the whole sit this morn. Not a deer harmed in this episode! Heard one shot way way off. 

[phade]

25 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Agree. It seems there are so many factors to tooth wear, that makes it such a guessing game on deer over 2.5. Below is a copy & paste on the accuracies from deerage.com

In a study done by Kenneth L. Hamlin et al. of the Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks ( Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449) accuracy rates of cementum annuli were 97.3% for elk through age 14, 92.6% for mule deer through age 14, and 85.1% for white-tailed deer through 9 years old.

Tooth eruption or tooth replacement is a highly reliable way to age mammals until they have all their permanent teeth. In whitetails you can accurately place deer as 6 months old, 18 months old, or 2 ½ or older using this easily learned technique.

This is probably a good time to bring up one of the most popular and prevalent myths of how to age game mammals, molar wear aging. This technique suggests that we should be able to determine the age of a mammal by looking at the wear on the molars. Sort of like determining the age of your tires by tread wear. In the same study by Hamlin referred to above; the accuracy of molar wear aging was 62.3% for mule deer, 42.9% for whitetails, and 50% for elk in the 3-4 year classes, 16% for elk 5 years old. They ultimately concluded that “The accuracy provided by the cementum annuli method is necessary to determine whether various physical and population parameters change significantly with age of the animal.” So what is the source of this popular myth of molar wear aging? In 1949 Wildlife Biologist C.W. Severinghaus published a study “Tooth Development and Wear as a Criteria of Age in White-tailed Deer” Journal of Wildlife Management 13:195-215. In this study he suggested two methods of aging; Eruption or tooth replacement aging and Molar wear aging. Subsequent studies since 1949 have supported his eruption aging results, but no study has been able to validate his hypothesis concerning molar wear aging. In fact in addition to the Hamlin study cited above here are some more comments by wildlife biologists in recent years:

….this widely used technique (molar wear) is very inaccurate for classifying adult deer…. (Ken Gee, Wildlife Biologist, Noble Foundation Wildlife Unit 1996 study)
We believe age-specific information and conclusions drawn….using the tooth-wear aging technique to “determine” ages of adult white-tail deer are unfounded…Review of all other published data sets using known-age deer supports this conclusion.(Wildlife Society Bulletin 2002, 30(2):387-393 Ken Gee et al.)
Ages assigned by … wear criteria were not reliable….. (Kenneth Hamlin et al. 2000 Journal of Wildlife Management 64(2):441-449)
….we conclude that tooth replacement and wear should be used for deer <2-1/2 years old, while cementum annuli should be used for deer >3-1/2 years old. (Mickey W. Hellickson, Ph.D. King Ranch Chief Wildlife Biologist 2007)
Curiously this molar wear aging is still part of the course curriculum taught to current wildlife biology students. That is probably a key reason that the myth continues.

In conclusion, if someone wants to really know the age of mature trophy game mammals, the only choice is cementum annu

Well, let's be honest, deer age makes money on the aging, so they'll have a bias.

I've sent in one sample one time and it was "fun" to see but that's all it really was, fun. I realized that at a certain point, it really doesn't matter if he's 3.5 or 4.5 or 6.5 or 8.5, if he makes you go holy shit, then that is what matters.

*Edit - I had the fortune to spend a day with Mickey 15-ish years ago; what a brilliant mind and legend in the deer community.

Edited December 17, 2020 by phade

[TheHornHunter]

 
In all seriousness, I truly want to do it my way and it will mean a lot to me. Killing a doe or small buck is not why I decided to start bowhunting in 2017. My last doe was 2000, and my next will be never unless it’s a piebald or albino.
 
Of course, my odds would greatly increase if I hunted higher population areas or from a treestand. However, If I can kill a nice buck from the ground, with no blind or cover, just sitting on a chair or ground being as still as possible that would mean a lot to me. I’d take 1 buck that way over 100 bucks from a treestand. That’s what would make me happy and that’s why I hunt. It’s important for everyone to hunt for the reasons that make you happy. For me, seeing Arcade get his nice buck from the ground without a blind is the buck of the year on the forum. I don’t care if others don’t agree, but that’s my personal belief.
 
Edit- and Jay, wouldn’t hunting for likes be killing every deer legally possible? I do the opposite. I don’t kill 5-7 deer per year just for fun.
 
 
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Why not use natural blinds? My primary hunting method is scouting for the hottest sign I can find and then either hunting it from my saddle or on the ground sitting up against a tree or in the middle of some brush, blow down, etc. The area totally dictates which method I use. I get what you’re doing and think it’s commendable but you’re making it really hard on yourself not using what nature provides with cover. Breaking up your figure and having some type of backdrop goes a LONG ways when you have to drawback on a buck. My buck this year was actually the first I’ve killed not on the ground and was 15’ up in my saddle


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[BizCT]

12 minutes ago, phade said:

Well, let's be honest, deer age makes money on the aging, so they'll have a bias.

I've sent in one sample one time and it was "fun" to see but that's all it really was, fun. I realized that at a certain point, it really doesn't matter if he's 3.5 or 4.5 or 6.5 or 8.5, if he makes you go holy shit, then that is what matters.

*Edit - I had the fortune to spend a day with Mickey 15-ish years ago; what a brilliant mind and legend in the deer community.

Nice. And you're right, when i went to their site to grab the Q&A, a pop up said they are busier than ever and can't keep up.

[BizCT]

11 minutes ago, TheHornHunter said:

Why not use natural blinds? My primary hunting method is scouting for the hottest sign I can find and then either hunting it from my saddle or on the ground sitting up against a tree or in the middle of some brush, blow down, etc. The area totally dictates which method I use. I get what you’re doing and think it’s commendable but you’re making it really hard on yourself not using what nature provides with cover. Breaking up your figure and having some type of backdrop goes a LONG ways when you have to drawback on a buck. My buck this year was actually the first I’ve killed not on the ground and was 15’ up in my saddle


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That is what I do. I tuck myself into rock out croppings or other hill-like features. since i can't post a video here, i'll send you on IG