Jump to content

DEC Proposes Potential Future "Holiday" Deer Hunt


CapDistPatriot
 Share

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, phade said:

NY Snowmobile industry in its entirety is worth $868M (SUNY Potsdam valuation). There are 122K registered snowmobiles in NY as of 2019 (SUNY Potsdam/NYS DMV).

NY is a top three state for hunting/fishing revenue - several multiples larger than the revenue generated by NY snowmobilers' entire industry. If we want to talk deer hunters, there are usually between 550-750K deer hunters in NY. NY hunters spent $1.9B in hunting-related trip expenses alone as of 2015 (NYS Comptroller) - that doesn't include their entire industry. Meaning hotels, bars, restaurants, etc. Keep in mind, just the money sportsmen spend on trips alone is double the entire value of the NY snowmobile industry. Add in the entirety of the top-3 state's worth...and it's not close.

Thinking the snowmobile industry is going to shoot down a season to better help control deer numbers, especially in areas where needed. Will they put up a fight? Yep. Will it have an impact - probably not as much as the hunter input, full well knowing the DEC has been trying to expand seasons with a bangstick for 15+ years.

Sorry, something about your numbers doesn't add up.  Using your numbers, you are saying that hunters spend 1.9 billion dollars per year on trip expenses only, using the highest end of your number of deer hunters at 750,000 you are saying that every single hunter spends $2533 per year on just trip expenses to deer hunt?  Sorry, don't buy it...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Rack Attack said:

Sorry, something about your numbers doesn't add up.  Using your numbers, you are saying that hunters spend 1.9 billion dollars per year on trip expenses only, using the highest end of your number of deer hunters at 750,000 you are saying that every single hunter spends $2533 per year on just trip expenses to deer hunt?  Sorry, don't buy it...

Is the fishing in there too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

Sorry, something about your numbers doesn't add up.  Using your numbers, you are saying that hunters spend 1.9 billion dollars per year on trip expenses only, using the highest end of your number of deer hunters at 750,000 you are saying that every single hunter spends $2533 per year on just trip expenses to deer hunt?  Sorry, don't buy it...

It's hunting and fishing detail. But again, what the data points is that even in your most scaled back assessment of deer hunters alone - the hunting industry has a larger voice. All of snowmobiling is worth less than a billion.

Here is the line from the comptroller:

Spending on hunting- and fishing-related activities totaled over $5 billion in New York, 5.6 percent of the total expenditures by hunters and fishermen nationwide. Nearly $1.9 billion was for trip-related purchases including transportation, food and lodging. Such expenditures, which rank the State second in the nation, play important roles in local economies in many rural parts of Upstate New York, as well as some communities on Long Island.

I did some back of napkin math based on that report - hunters worth $2.25B in NY in most conservative measurement.

Edited by phade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, at this point, I'll bow out of the back and forth. At the end of the day, I firmly believe data indicates hunting community has a higher valuation and voice when all said and done. Most hunters are not just deer hunters, but high majority of NY hunters deer hunt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I wouldn't be suprised if fishing generated more revenue then hunting and for this discussion shouldn't even be used in the equation.

$2.25B vs. $868B using some details I was able to glean elsewhere.

Alot of snowmobile revenue is focused on the northern zone; alot of the revenue for hunting is focused on the southern zone (I think we would directionally agree on that). This scenario is focused on the southern zone.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, phade said:

$2.25B vs. $868B using some details I was able to glean elsewhere.

Alot of snowmobile revenue is focused on the northern zone; alot of the revenue for hunting is focused on the southern zone (I think we would directionally agree on that). This scenario is focused on the southern zone.

 

I still dont believe those numbers are even close , its amazing how facts can be cherry picked to fit a narrative.  The first search I pulled up showed hunting tags made up 50 million dollars in sales ,that includes fishing, I sure would be curious what hunters are spending all this other money on as well as what expenses they left out of the snowmobilers total. If we are going to include equipment as well then its no contest that sledders spend more money. Another figure we'll never be able to accurately total is what kind of revenue the local businesses bring in ,but I've heard more then one bar owner say that sledding season is their busiest time of the year if the trails are rideable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I still dont believe those numbers are even close , its amazing how facts can be cherry picked to fit a narrative.  The first search I pulled up showed hunting tags made up 50 million dollars in sales ,that includes fishing, I sure would be curious what hunters are spending all this other money on as well as what expenses they left out of the snowmobilers total. If we are going to include equipment as well then its no contest that sledders spend more money. Another figure we'll never be able to accurately total is what kind of revenue the local businesses bring in ,but I've heard more then one bar owner say that sledding season is their busiest time of the year if the trails are rideable. 

Personally,  I'm pretty comfortable digesting and interpreting numbers from a financial perspective and pulled from reputable sources - NYS comptroller, SUNY Potsdam, NYS DMV. I don't rely on what a bar owner says, and that might just be a personal difference.

Found this older one, too.

In the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation quinquennial study, it is estimated that New York’s hunters contributed over $2.25 billion ($2,732.57 per hunter) to the State’s economy in 2011 which directly supported nearly 24,000 jobs (Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, 2013b). Hunters purchase trips, tree stands, rifles, bows, arrows, ammunition, fuel for their vehicles, etc. to engage in their pursuits.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not gonna pass bill ,after the snowmobilers have their say . Then add the small business owners who will gladly take the side of the snowmobilers who benefit from the trails being open. 
Regulation not law right? If DEC wants it itll happen.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

What "trips" are hunters in NYS purchasing in any significant volume? Im sure fishing is the lions share of that number

The 2.25B number is explicit to hunters in that one study. Hunters trips are no different than snowmobilers trips. Many hunters live in NYC and come upstate and spend money. Many go to the Dacks and spend money, etc.

I found one line from the DEC that said 500K deer hunters bring in $1.5B but that line is pretty old from what I can see and we're ballpark 600K now. All indications are that deer hunters are still higher than what the snowmobile data shows. Again, just actuals reported in studies and not using what bar owners say or infer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the idea, when I was a kid in PA we hunted the holiday week in Alleghany County and it was awesome with warmer temps and light snowfall in SW Pa that time of year. I can only see doing this here in WNY if we are having very mild winter. The properties I hunt are usually snowed in before the end of regular season.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, phade said:

The 2.25B number is explicit to hunters in that one study. Hunters trips are no different than snowmobilers trips. Many hunters live in NYC and come upstate and spend money. Many go to the Dacks and spend money, etc.

I found one line from the DEC that said 500K deer hunters bring in $1.5B but that line is pretty old from what I can see and we're ballpark 600K now. All indications are that deer hunters are still higher than what the snowmobile data shows. Again, just actuals reported in studies and not using what bar owners say or infer.

walk into any outdoors store and compare the amount of hunting and fishing equipment to snowmobile.  I dont think snowmobile riding is all that big these days.  Its Bass Pro - not Snow pro lol , and add in outdoor sections at walmart etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

walk into any outdoors store and compare the amount of hunting and fishing equipment to snowmobile.  I dont think snowmobile riding is all that big these days.  Its Bass Pro - not Snow pro lol , and add in outdoor sections at walmart etc. 

I dont dispute that at all. I was originally commenting on the bars and restaurants, snowmobiling season is huge for them where hunters arent a blip on the radar anymore

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

Only on a hunting forum would a potential about adding hunting days turn into who spends more....

Hunters or snowmobile riders.

:rofl:

Go back and start over again ,it started because it will never pasd because the snowmobile community has way more pull then the hunting community.  Now take a lap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go back and start over again ,it started because it will never pasd because the snowmobile community has way more pull then the hunting community.  Now take a lap.

Almost every community has more pull than we do. Most outsiders view us a barbaric drunks who walk around the woods with loaded guns and drink beer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Similar Content

    • By BuckSteady
      New hunter to NY here. Found some public land to hunt, it’s a WMA. I wish I read the regs more thoroughly because I threw up a ladder stand yesterday and today when I was re-reading them, I saw you can’t put temporary stands on WMAs, only on state forests and other such state land. I honestly didn’t know I wasn’t allowed to, I even put my name and license # on the stand. I was going to go take it down tomorrow but it’s an hour drive so I wanted to ask, what do DEC officers do if they find a ladderstand like mine on a WMA? Is this an automatic fine or whatever? Will they just call me and tell me to come get it? Confiscate? How often do officers go through areas like WMAs and check for stands? Any info would be helpful. I’ll still probably go take it down tomorrow, although I have seen other stands up on the WMA, I just prefer to stay on the right side of the law myself. Thanks!
    • By Rebel Darling
      Here is DEC's harvest forecast for whitetail during the 2016 hunting season:
      http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerforecastr4.pdf
      Interesting info...  I doubt my WMU, 4L will ever have doe tags, and it's interesting to read that DEC is concerned by possible "misuse" of the 4J doe tags. 
    • By Rebel Darling
      In case anyone is interested, the NYS Senate is considering the nomination of Basil Seggos as Commissioner, DEC:
       
      7:40 p.m.
       
      http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nysenate
    • By Rebel Darling
      Here's the link with the content below:
       
      http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/NYSDEC/bulletins/1374987
       
       
      Agency Will Encourage Hunters to Voluntarily Pass Up Young Bucks
       
      A multi-year study to guide buck management in New York State found deer hunters prefer to harvest older bucks and that further expanding mandatory antler restrictions is not warranted at this time, Department of Environmental Conservation Acting Commissioner Basil Seggos announced today. Instead, the state will encourage hunters to voluntarily pass up shots at younger bucks as a management method to best serve the interests of deer hunters across the state.
       
      "Through this study, DEC engaged with the hunting community to determine the best deer herd management practices to benefit both the deer population and our state's wildlife enthusiasts," Acting Commissioner Seggos said. "DEC staff concluded that promoting voluntary restraint was appropriate given the high level of hunter support for increased availability of older bucks. Using a sound scientific approach to wildlife management is an essential strategy to expand hunting opportunities and growing the hunting economy in New York."
       
      DEC and the New York Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit at Cornell University conducted the study in response to long-standing interests expressed by many hunters for DEC to adopt regulations to reduce the take of yearling bucks (male deer younger than 1.5 years old) to increase the number of older bucks in the population. Moving forward, DEC intends to work with several leading sportsmen groups across the state to educate hunters on their important role in deer management, the impacts of their harvest choices, and the likely changes in the deer population as more and more hunters voluntarily refrain from taking young bucks.
       
      The study included a statewide survey of 7,000 deer hunters conducted in fall 2013 by the Human Dimensions Research Unit at Cornell University, a nationally recognized leader in surveys to assess public opinions and attitudes on wildlife-related issues.
       
      DEC considered six alternatives to increase the proportion of older bucks in the population, including mandatory antler restrictions during all or portions of the archery and firearms seasons, shorter firearms seasons, a one-buck per hunter per year rule, promoting voluntary restraint by hunters, and a no change option. DEC analyzed these alternatives for each of the state's seven distinct buck management zones. The decision process weighted hunter values 3:1 over potential impacts on population management and costs, but the survey found that hunter values did not strongly lean in any one particular direction.
       
      "The issue of antler restrictions has divided our deer hunting community for too many years and I am pleased to see that the DEC used a very structured, non-biased decision-making process to determine the outcome," said Larry Becker, Chairman of the New York Sportsmen's Advisory Council. "It is most important that everyone understands that DEC has listened to what the majority of the deer hunters in the State want and that this was the primary factor that drove the final decision. The hunters spoke and DEC listened."
       
      DEC plans to work with sportsmen and women and other stakeholder groups, including the New York State Conservation Council (NYSCC) and Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA), in the coming year to develop a cooperative, educational effort to encourage hunters to pass up shots at young bucks. It is clear that hunters' choices can and do affect the age and size of bucks in our deer herd, and when hunters choose to pass young bucks, it can make a difference for other hunters as well.
       
      "The Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) is pleased New York has engaged its deer hunters at such a high level to learn their values and desires," said Kip Adams, QDMA Director of Education & Outreach. "We feel this is a positive step for the DEC and for hunters, and we are extremely supportive of the Department's proposed educational campaign on the benefits of protecting yearling bucks."
       
      "The New York State Conservation Council would like to applaud the hard work of both the DEC Deer Team and Cornell University, as well as the hunting community that participated in this important work," said Rich Davenport, NYSCC Big Game Committee Co-Chairman. "We look forward to assisting the DEC and other sportsmen groups with educating the hunters of today and tomorrow on the benefits of voluntary harvest restraint and the importance of the management role hunters of New York play. It's a critical component to ensure we have healthy deer herds well into the future."
       
      Detailed technical reports on the analysis of alternatives and results of the hunter survey are both available on the DEC website, along with more succinct summaries of the work that was done. DEC plans to hold public information meetings later this spring and summer to discuss these results and get hunter feedback on ways to encourage others to pass up shots at young, small-antlered bucks.
       
      The meetings will also provide an opportunity for hunters and others to provide input on other aspects of DEC's deer management plan, which will be updated in the coming year. The current (2012-2016) statewide deer plan is also available on the DEC website.
    • By G-Man
      So Bennet Beach has been closed more than open do to contamination, testing is done by erie county department of health, the question Is where is the dec tracking down the source of it it's in lake erie effects the fish, if it was a buisness you know they would be all over them for fines and restitution to fix the problem.
      This had been going on for several years and it's known over flow from sewer lines in hamburg. Why aren't they going after the municipality/ies responsible! !!???
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...