DEC DEER Rating in your WMU?

[landtracdeerhunter]

Grow, no mention of your food plots. Think there nutritional value changing might have something to do with it?

[bushnell]

My sightings this year compared to last year were about the same. Fewer bucks this year but that is how it goes in the area I hunt. 1 year I may see 2-3 buck. The next year I may not see any. I did get a buck this year. But the rest of the guys I hunt saw the least amount of deer that they have ever seen. I talked to a gentleman who archery hunts and he stated that he saw quite a few deer during archery and they disappeared come rifle.

But hey this is why they call it hunting. If it was easy everybody but the animal rights people would do it. IMO

[growalot]

Not sure what you mean...but I don't usually put the cams right over the plots...and I do know that all corn is gone ...but turnips still have some greens and lots of bulbs....I also don't normally hunt over them...the deer I saw that day were 300 yrd from the nearest plot...cutting across us going to a swamp off us.......just one deer a bow doe was taken near any plots this year.....I also have one major green area to the south/west...a corn a hay field and pine plantations to the south...talked the neighbors into mowing large trails for the deer on their 100 acres of land and have another old hay field to our east...more swamp to the north...all these places are on other private lands...

The deer simply go to ground during the day and feed strictly at night...with no snow to keep them on their feet...there is no reason for them to move out of the security of either less pressured lands or deep swamp areas on the lands around me...with the exception of the North side all are 50-100acre parcels...which some may say is small...but that is a relative term...for I find it's land structure that tells the real story on holding power....ie timbered lands...swamps...pine plantations...oaks...gullies and water...I got my biggest buck to date off a "lousy" 9acres we had before buying up the property around us....a travel route that is flat compared to the rest of hill and mowed trails with brambles...never failed to see deer every day there

Edited December 22, 2011 by growalot

[patriot]

Did not get to hunt at all 2010 season due to another one year tour over seas. But I was able to hunt the whole season for 2011. I bow hunted Norwich and did see 12 deer total hitting up the apple trees. For rifle season I hunted the Catskills and saw an total of 7 deer which is a little on the down side for this area. I then went back to Norwich for the ML season which they did have some snow on the ground. Hunnted for miles and miles seems like I could not Buy a track.We then then drove the roads State and private again same thing it was like Mars lifeless!! We tryed to tally up what was killed in this area and some of the camps were complaining they could not even fill all there doe tags.Well next to my friends camp was one of them they shot 8 does the year before they shot 12 does 2 bucks the year before that was about 12 doe 3 bucks. So that being said its should be mahtmatical can you keep shooting this many does and expect to have good deer populations. Do the math on this one camp shot and times that buy how many fawns they should have had.If you keep taking fish out of the pond it has to run out sooner or later. I think there have been way to many doe tags handed out in cetain areas.Actually this land should have far more deer than the mountain region but at this time it seems like it has far less.

[SteveNY]

3A gets a F

3H gets a D-

[orion]

9 deer + 4 tails better than last year

D for 4F

[G-Man]

Well as for the deer sightings going down everyyear... My question is what had been done to the property? Woods mature , brush grows up!! farms close shop or roatate into different crops. We consistantly average 15-18 deer a year since 93, usually 10 doe. but the land is always being manged. As hunters we fall into a groove of going to the same stand year in and year out or the same area.. Habitat changes some times so slowly as it isn't noticed by a few yearly visits..but take a picture now and look at agin in 10 years...deer will move to better cover and habitat resulting in fewer sightings even if a food source is added it cover isnt there they will feed at night!.. my area... i'll give a b... average hunting 9w.

[grifflvc]

Hunted 7m in Northwest Chenango county. Not many shots at all and very little movement. Got an old 6 pt. 2nd day but that was all I saw the 1st 3 days of rifle. Tons of sign though. I have 21 acres bordering state land with a lot of apple trees on it which usually brings the deer in. Anyone else hunt around the Norwich area?

[Single_shot]

6K was and is ok in my mind.

[13BVET]

3G, I rate a B+. During the bow, I saw a lot of them. In the early part of gun, it was slow, and actually saw nothing for about a week. Once the pressure eased off on the neighboring property, they started coming out again. There are no shortage of deer in the particular area of 3G I hunt. However, a lot (over 60%) of them were small.

[New York Hillbilly]

Southern Oneida County in 7M. Bow season was seeing some pretty good movement and I passed on a couple little bucks and does. Firearm season, deer sign everywhere, too warm during the day and only moving a night. Muzzle loader season got colder with lots more movement and deer seen, but only had one weekend and two evenings to hunt. I passed several does with ML, and saw one BIG buck when he busted out of the hedgerow behind my house after the first shot my brother in law made at a target trying to site in his new ML.

It was the big boy I tried to find all season up on my hill, and here he was sleeping behind my house, no doubt all season long. It figures I put about 150 hours in on stand, give or take, and this big fella watched me pass by him the entire season as I headed up the hill. LOL! Like I said before, they don't get that big being stupid. LOL! Not my best season but sure glad I made it to and through another.

Edited December 23, 2011 by New York Hillbilly

[Buckstopshere]

Since I hunt pretty hard in four areas in Unit 9Y, I have a pretty good handle on it. I would have to give it a B+. Lots of deer, lots of bucks...but the problem is too many little spikes and forks and scrub bucks. Everyone seems to have to shoot a 2 year old, and passes the spikes. I wish they would shoot a spike or a fork and let the 2 year old grow into something that we could really get excited about. Not that a lot of three year olds were taken this year in 9Y...it was a great year. Every year it is getting better. Evidently other areas in the state are not doing so well. I have to think that a lot of the improvement I have seen over the last 10 years here is the increase in food plots, feeding the deer and amending the soil...our deer seem bigger and their antler mass seems to be increasing...but any individual's observations are just a little slice of the big pie. Maybe it has to do with the milder winters...

[NFA-ADK]

So exactly what should be done to increase the deer population in the Adirondacks? Not like there was ever a big deer population up there. Funny, but I remembered you starting a thread over the summer about hunting mature deer. You said killing a doe was NO challenge, and here you are saying you hardly saw any. Hunting ANYTHING can be a challenge and that's what I think some big buck only hunters need to get straight. Last summer you seemed more than satisfied with the hunting in the Adirondacks and now you are singing a different tune it seems?? I honestly think it's no ones fault that there aren't many deer up there. It's pretty much the same in all big woods areas. Not like they will be starting to plant food plots on public land just to help out the deer and deer hunters.

http://huntingny.com...__fromsearch__1

I love Hunting the ADK but do not activly hunt doe as the population is so low. In so far as being satisfied I did not say anything about disliking or being dissatisfied. Not sure why you would bring up satisfaction when I am complaining about closing area's and DEC not doing anything for deer management. If you think the population was always low go and talk to a old timer who was around when they opened it up. Thier were deer everywhere from what I have been told 1st hand by multiple people... And that was due to logging, plain and simple again from what I am told.

In so far as doe's, Yes they are as easy as fawns and yearlings in my opinion BUT not all doe are created equal... Most of my doe interaction has been in the southern zone, and I could have hit them with a bat, mabe that is why I do not hunt them... I hope you understand why I don't hunt them now. With a population of less than 1 deer per square mile you think I would actually hunt doe? And you can only shoot them during bow season. And yes not all doe OR bucks are created equal. Most of the area I hunt I am not allow to shot doe or I would not due to low population. Are all doe's easy to hunt, NO. I never said that so stop putting words in my mouth. What I said was "Hunting for me is a challenge and to shoot a doe or a yearling is just not that challenging for ME." Does that mean all doe's are easy to hunt, NO. I tried one time to hunt this mature doe and never was able to get a shot on her as she busted me every time I tried... This does not mean I will not hunt doe, or shoot a small buck. But in the ADK during rifle IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT DOE, and when I go during bow season I am activly seeking sign of bucks or large doe population for rifle season hunting. Are deer hard to hunt yes, but when you have them come so close I could tackle them it does not represent a true hunt for me... I was not able to hunt any southern zone area's this year due to multiple issues which is were I usually see the most deer. (That is why I am fustrated, my hunting time was cut in half this year!!!) Not seeing any deer in the ADK is not out of the ordinary. The main reason I did not see as many deer is I was trying to push deer to my partner who is the only one to see 2 doe the entire week and the weather did not help... In so far as helping the population, let them go in with a chainsaw during the worst winters and help the deer by cutting some tree's down, or clear cut or better yet let the logging company come in an help. And yes I agree with you hunting anything can be a challenge but when they come to within 5 feet of me the challenge is gone...

Edited December 23, 2011 by NFA-ADK

[BizCT]

Bix-R-OWhatever.... you crack me up! Please enlighten the entire New York State hunting community and share your vast knowledge and advanced unknown to most skills with the rest of us. Oh mighty Hunter.

First of all you are right, I only hunted several days in Fahnestock State Park, where the area is vast, deer could be anywhere, and restricted to BOW ONLY. I only hunted there after the the regular bow season ended and in December as to keep away from the gun hunting area. My other bow hunting area closed on November 30th. I am more than familar with the lay of the land in Fahnestock and have had successes there in the past.

I have 42 years deer hunting experience, 25 of those years as an instructor. Both Gun & Archery. But I'm just a one legged man in an ass-kickin contest, I wish I had your superior skills. Gimme a break!

If I sound blunt. Too Bad, I was not expecting a critique about me!

Sorry to hear you dont have success every single year.

[nyantler]

There is no shortage of deer in the Adirondacks.. in fact it has one of the highest populations of deer in NY... you are mistaking population with deer density... because it is so vast there are less deer per square mile... this is common in most large tracks of land...most, if not all of the adirondack hunters that I know (and I know many) are extremely successful in the "Dacks"... One can not hunt most of the Adirondacks the way they hunt other areas of NY... if you're hunting from a stand.. I promise you your success rate in most of the ADK's will be extremely low... your sightings will probably be low as well... it just is nothing like any other place in NY as far as deer hunting is concerned... yes it has it's habitat downfalls, but one of them isn't lack of deer. I have hunted vast amounts of Adirondack wilderness in all areas of the ADKS and still have only covered a pimple on the ass of it... no there isn't the population there was years ago, but it is not the same woods it was years ago.. not even close... despite it's downfalls... it is still is one of the only areas where mother nature is still in control... much of the woods is as it would be if man didn't exist.

[nyantler]

No plots but I think the view that the chainsaws can't go in is wrong. Timber harvesting and selective clear cutting for wildlife habitat is not a bad thing as the tree huggers would have many believe. a mature forest can be much like a desert for alot of species.

You're right culver I agree.. but being because what has happened in the ADK's is not man made but natural progression of nature... there is no reason for man to intervene. I believe that fixing habitat should be limited to that destroyed by man... NY's lack of logging the in the ADK's, although seemingly bad for the deer as you described, would be manipulating a woods that mother nature intended naturally... it will be many years, but the woods will transform itself again.

I'm torn between doing what you describe and leaving the woods alone... Seems to me that whenever man gets involved they tend to find a way to mess things up in a different way.... deer have been in the ADK's long before many of us were born, it is one of the only places in NY where there is a good buck/doe ratio and age structure.. I personally would not like to see it become like the rest of NY State.

[Dave]

You're right culver I agree.. but being because what has happened in the ADK's is not man made but natural progression of nature... there is no reason for man to intervene. I believe that fixing habitat should be limited to that destroyed by man... NY's lack of logging the in the ADK's, although seemingly bad for the deer as you described, would be manipulating a woods that mother nature intended naturally... it will be many years, but the woods will transform itself again.

I'm torn between doing what you describe and leaving the woods alone... Seems to me that whenever man gets involved they tend to find a way to mess things up in a different way.... deer have been in the ADK's long before many of us were born, it is one of the only places in NY where there is a good buck/doe ratio and age structure.. I personally would not like to see it become like the rest of NY State.

We have a hunting club that borders our camp. The original owned sold the land to the new club and had logging rights for 5 years. So for the past two years it has been logger all through the year. Last year we only shot one buck between12 guys. This year with all the logging activity there are more does and bucks roaming our property. This year we shot 4 bucks and one doe. I think this was a result of the logging and the deer had food all through the winter. The guys in our camp don't shoot does but I will on occasion.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ny...it we want to follow that line of thinking and not intervene so we leave it as mother nature intended.....should we then let any wildfire be put out naturally too.

[nyantler]

Ny...it we want to follow that line of thinking and not intervene so we leave it as mother nature intended.....should we then let any wildfire be put out naturally too.

Well of course not LOL... that would be potentially dangerous to the surrounding communities and public safety... the population of whitetails in the ADK's pose no such danger... the deer in fact are doing quite fine... any supposed problem with the whitetail population is only related to some hunters perceptions of how it is affecting their personal hunting experience. Which is subjective. For every hunter that thinks there is a problem with deer in the ADK's there is another that doesn't. I'm not against or for timber harvesting in the ADK's, accept as it relates to deer.. I'm just voicing my opinion about the potential for screwing up the best example of a natural whitetail existence possibly anywhere in the US. I just don't trust the State to make the right choices when it comes to trying to manage the adirondacks thats all. I may be the last great wilderness in America.. certainly the largest.

Edited December 24, 2011 by nyantler

[WNYBuckHunter]

Until you allow naturally occurring fires to happen, the Dacks will not be an example of natural progression. They are an example of what tree huggers think the forest is. Fire is natures reset button, and when we keep putting those fires out, the forest becomes overly mature and any understory that would normally grow after a fire, is kept from growing. The only way to keep a semi natural progression of a forest going, without the use of fire, is selective logging, which thins the canopy and allows the understory to grow. The state could rake in some funds in the process as well as make the Dacks natural again.

JMO

[SteveMcD]

Until you allow naturally occurring fires to happen, the Dacks will not be an example of natural progression. They are an example of what tree huggers think the forest is. Fire is natures reset button, and when we keep putting those fires out, the forest becomes overly mature and any understory that would normally grow after a fire, is kept from growing. The only way to keep a semi natural progression of a forest going, without the use of fire, is selective logging, which thins the canopy and allows the understory to grow. The state could rake in some funds in the process as well as make the Dacks natural again.

JMO

WNYB.. more than just your opinion. You know your forestry management princples. I think one day, like out west, all that old growth is going to go up like toast! What a waste of timber! Old growth is the best stuff too!

[nyantler]

Until you allow naturally occurring fires to happen, the Dacks will not be an example of natural progression. They are an example of what tree huggers think the forest is. Fire is natures reset button, and when we keep putting those fires out, the forest becomes overly mature and any understory that would normally grow after a fire, is kept from growing. The only way to keep a semi natural progression of a forest going, without the use of fire, is selective logging, which thins the canopy and allows the understory to grow. The state could rake in some funds in the process as well as make the Dacks natural again.

JMO

I was going to say just what you said, but the way the question was posted. I thought he was asking if we should let an out of control fire possibly destroy surrounding populated areas... but you have to remember.. we're talking about NY State being the one to control the timber harvesting... we all know what happens when they get their hands on something... in Maine they have areas with controlled harvests.. for every tree cut.. there is another planted. There are limits to the size of clear cuts... in some areas there is a progressive cutting and planting system.. where you can literally see the difference in the ages of adjoining forests... the hunting is terrific in these areas and the negative impact on large tracts of land is minimal... These controlled harvests are usually done as a part of some study being done and seem to serve the forests and wildlife populations well... a program like that would be one to be considered... a program based on collecting revenue for the State would end up being a huge mistake I think for conservation, forest preservation and wildlife... just my opinion.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I agree that the state usually doenst manage anything correctly, especially money. Maybe the money collected from timber harvesting of areas like the Adirondacks should be put back into the programs for managing and purchase of state managed lands through the conservation fund. Youd think it could be pretty simple, but like you said, this IS New York we are talking about.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNYB.. more than just your opinion. You know your forestry management princples. I think one day, like out west, all that old growth is going to go up like toast! What a waste of timber! Old growth is the best stuff too!

I agree, its tinder box waiting to get out of control.

[wztirem]

I agree that the state usually doenst manage anything correctly, especially money. Maybe the money collected from timber harvesting of areas like the Adirondacks should be put back into the programs for managing and purchase of state managed lands through the conservation fund. Youd think it could be pretty simple, but like you said, this IS New York we are talking about.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Lets see what happens. Man, messing with mother nature often leads to consequences that were never ever considered.