Posted Property

[Modern hillbilly]

49 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

This is from NY Penal law 140

A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and
apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed
in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and
privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to
him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such
notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. 

Ive had people ticketed by going around a rope blocking a trail.

I don't believe The penal law uses the conservation law as definition of "posting".

If you read the entire section, Trespassing is intentionality invading someone's property, that's all you as a land owner have to prove. So signs other than the traditional posted works, signs by themselves show an improvement. Also the unimproved portion works if you have anything done as far as signs gates felled trees trails etc.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

19 hours ago, Modern hillbilly said:

Ive had people ticketed by going around a rope blocking a trail.

I don't believe The penal law uses the conservation law as definition of "posting".

If you read the entire section, Trespassing is intentionality invading someone's property, that's all you as a land owner have to prove. So signs other than the traditional posted works, signs by themselves show an improvement. Also the unimproved portion works if you have anything done as far as signs gates felled trees trails etc.

ticketed....but did it stick? That rope doesn't seem to meet the letter of the section

The full text. http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article140.htm#p140.00

[left field]

Quote

A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and
apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed
in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and
privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to
him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such
notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. 

I wonder if surveyor's flagging tape along a lot line is considered "posting in a conspicuous manner."

[silent death]

Try living next to a neighbor who moves property stakes and puts his own in every year lol that's what I go through 

[ATbuckhunter]

3 minutes ago, silent death said:

Try living next to a neighbor who moves property stakes and puts his own in every year lol that's what I go through 

The neighbor and her bf next to my grandparents 10 acres threaten to kill/shoot me time to time, so I might have you beat on that one. 

[silent death]

Just now, ATbuckhunter said:

The neighbor and her bf next to my grandparents 10 acres threaten to kill/shoot me time to time, so I might have you beat on that one. 

Hes never gone that far but hes a a 60 old guy that's lived here his whole life and his dad passed and his mother moved to florida and left him the house  but set it up so where the property is in his moms name just to get reduced taxes....the first time I ever met him he showed me the property markers not a hi and no introduction along with I dont let nobody on our property yet he walks across ours all the time. If it wouldnt cost a arm and a leg I'd fence the line off

[GreeneHunter]

Not to hijack the Forum .... but does Posted Vacant Land need to be insured in case a Trespasser gets hurt Trespassing ? This Clown thinks he owns my land and I have no idea who he is ! Checked trail cams today ... obviously ! Posted Signs are there !

 

 

 

[left field]

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that you are immune if a trespasser hurts themselves on your property. Though I guess what constitutes a hazard could be interpreted a lot of ways.

Quote

New York's General Obligations Law protects landowners from liability for recreationist trespassers. However, landowners are not protected from liability in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers. You may not intentionally erect a hazard or fail to provide warning of a known hazard. If you know of a hazard on the property, fix it or warn against it. This will ensure the highest protection from liability.

http://albany.cce.cornell.edu/environment/woodlot-management/dealing-with-trespassers#:~:text=New York's General Obligations Law,warning of a known hazard.

Edited June 18, 2021 by left field

[silent death]

34 minutes ago, GreeneHunter said:

Not to hijack the Forum .... but does Posted Vacant Land need to be insured in case a Trespasser gets hurt Trespassing ? This Clown thinks he owns my land and I have no idea who he is ! Checked trail cams today ... obviously ! Posted Signs are there !

 

 

 

Looks like hes riding a kids atv or a  400ex if it's a small community iam sure someone knows who it is...I know around here everybody knows who has sport quads because people mostly have 4x4s or dirtbikes 

Edited June 18, 2021 by silent death

[Robhuntandfish]

 I would make 10 copies of his picture and put them near the entrances to the land that looks like he is using and put on it "YOU are on camera and WILL be arrested for trespassing!".   

And I would also make copies of the pics and notify the sherriffs office. 

[GreeneHunter]

I have a total of 9 pictures from three different Trail Cams and emailed them to the local PD  , if it was a kid and he/she asked I'd have no problem with it , but that's no kid - unless he's been eating his Wheaties . And as you see he rides right next to my Ladder Stand ! Big No No !  Surprised he didn't take down my Bait Cam's ! LOL

[luberhill]

On 10/19/2020 at 7:24 PM, bigpaul said:

Posted Property/Trespass

Posting Requirements

"POSTED" sign requirements are as follows:

• the posting law specifies the maximum distance between signs is 660 ft.,
• the minimum size of the signs is 11 inches square and the area covered by the printing is a minimum of 80 sq. inches.
• Signs can be no more than 660 feet apart.
• The signs should, however, be placed close enough together to be seen and at a height that is easily visible.
• Posted signs must have the name and address of the person authorized to post the property.
• Each side of all corners of the property must be marked with posted signs, so that corners can be reasonably ascertained.
• There is no requirement that signs be "seen," and in fact, the land is still posted for a period of one year even if the signs are illegally removed by unauthorized persons the day they are put up.
  • This illustrates the importance of seeking permission to enter private land, regardless of whether of not it is posted.
• You can be arrested for trespassing even if you did not see any posted signs. Your hunting license does not give you the right to trespass on private property. It is your responsibility to find out who the land owner is and ask their permission whether the property is posted or not. The New York State Penal Law makes it an offense to enter any land without permission.
• All property is owned by somebody. The lack of posted signs, fences or other man made objects does not imply that you may enter to hunt, fish or trap. It is your responsibility to obtain permission to enter private lands or waters. Public lands and waters may or may not have restrictions that can be found by contacting the municipality owning the lands.
• If you shoot a deer and it runs onto posted property, you do not have the legal right to go on the property to retrieve it. You should locate the landowner, explain the situation, and ask permission. If the landowner refuses, the hunter will not be able to enter the property. The DEC cannot compel a landowner to grant access. If the hunter has reason to believe that the landowner intends to illegally possess the deer, it should be reported to the nearest Environmental Conservation Officer.
• State land managed by DEC, including Wildlife Management Areas and State Forests are marked with DEC signs and usually open to hunting. For state held lands open to hunting see Places To Hunt or the current Hunting and Trapping Guidebook.

NYS DEC said to me last week , even if there are NO posted signs and it’s not your land , if you don’t have the owners permission you are trespassing , period 

[ATbuckhunter]

12 hours ago, luberhill said:

NYS DEC said to me last week , even if there are NO posted signs and it’s not your land , if you don’t have the owners permission you are trespassing , period 

You can be asked to leave and not come back, but you cannot be charged with criminal trespass if its not properly posted. If asked to leave and not come back, then if that person comes back, they can be charged with criminal trespass (assuming you have video evidence or written evidence saying that). Confirmed by a DEC agent 

[First-light]

I don't have my name on my posted signs. It's all private by me no state land. Everyone else around me puts their name on the signs. I guess I'm lazy! lol

[ncountry]

4 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

You can be asked to leave and not come back, but you cannot be charged with criminal trespass if its not properly posted. If asked to leave and not come back, then if that person comes back, they can be charged with criminal trespass (assuming you have video evidence or written evidence saying that). Confirmed by a DEC agent 

Not true that you cannot be charged. I have 1st hand experience on this.. (none of our lands are posted but people have been ticketed.lol)

I think often that people are not charged the 1st time.

Depending upon the situation a case could be made that one was unaware that they were trespassing the 1st time.

[luberhill]

8 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

You can be asked to leave and not come back, but you cannot be charged with criminal trespass if its not properly posted. If asked to leave and not come back, then if that person comes back, they can be charged with criminal trespass (assuming you have video evidence or written evidence saying that). Confirmed by a DEC agent 

Wrong ! I just had this issue 2 weeks ago , region 7 DEC and the NYS police BOTH if I wanted to they would be charged with trespass ..

And DEC was adding in some other charges also ...

I had pictures of them on the property and pics of bottles and crap left at the scene .

The Village Clerk gave me the names after seeing the pictures 

[luberhill]

4 hours ago, ncountry said:

Not true that you cannot be charged. I have 1st hand experience on this.. (none of our lands are posted but people have been ticketed.lol)

I think often that people are not charged the 1st time.

Depending upon the situation a case could be made that one was unaware that they were trespassing the 1st time.

True ... trust me I just had this issue 2 weeks ago !

Region 7 DEC and NYS Police 

It was MY decision to let them off this time 

Edited June 19, 2021 by luberhill

[luberhill]

8 hours ago, First-light said:

I don't have my name on my posted signs. It's all private by me no state land. Everyone else around me puts their name on the signs. I guess I'm lazy! lol

You don’t have to

[land 1]

OK there is ECON Law and NYS Penal they are not the same thats what i think people are getting hung up, No signs needed under penal law, and either one can be enforced by any law enforcement, but each senerio is not the same

Edited June 19, 2021 by land 1

[ATbuckhunter]

6 hours ago, ncountry said:

Not true that you cannot be charged. I have 1st hand experience on this.. (none of our lands are posted but people have been ticketed.lol)

I think often that people are not charged the 1st time.

Depending upon the situation a case could be made that one was unaware that they were trespassing the 1st time.

There is no legal way to be charged when a property is not properly posted. I've asked my brother who is an attorney as well as different DEC agents. Its possible different if you have to walk up someone's driveway to access land, but as long as its vacant land and not posted, it would be thrown out in court in minutes. 

[ATbuckhunter]

2 hours ago, luberhill said:

Wrong ! I just had this issue 2 weeks ago , region 7 DEC and the NYS police BOTH if I wanted to they would be charged with trespass ..

And DEC was adding in some other charges also ...

I had pictures of them on the property and pics of bottles and crap left at the scene .

The Village Clerk gave me the names after seeing the pictures 

Absolutely not wrong at all. This has not been my experience as well as not in the schooling my brother got in law school. I was told point blank many times by DEC officers (in multiple regions), Attorneys as well as property surveyors that you absolutely cannot be charged with criminal trespass. They can ticket you all they like, it will be thrown out in court if fought. Unless theres more to this specific case, if they were caught on the property for the first time, then the ticket will not hold. 

[ATbuckhunter]

IM going to clear up what I'm trying to say. No you do not need posted signs in NY. You have the right to kick people off your property, and tell them to not come back (and charge them if you do). The question is can you charge criminal trespass if you have not properly posted the land. The answer is a flat no (assuming youve made no contact with said person). You can have someone trespassed, which means you tell them to never come back or else you will be charged with criminal trespass, but you can not have them charged with criminal trespass in the first encounter (if not properly posted). If they are charged, its very easy to have the ticket thrown out in court. Again this was explained to me by attorneys, DEC agents from multiple regions, State troopers and property surveyors. 

I myself used to think that you could be charged, but its not true. The only thing is if you can prove you had contact with said person and explained you did not want them to come back, then yes they can be charged with trespass (even if the property is unposted).

[land 1]

ok guys do you know criminal trespass is not the same charge as trespass, trespass is a violation, criminal trespass is a misdeameanor and normally deals with buildings, gates, dwellings etc.....and some people are right the court may toss the charge at times but at the time you got the ticket u were arrested and there would have to be probable cause for said ticket/arrest to take place.......again each case is specific to the incident

Edited June 19, 2021 by land 1

[rob-c]

On 6/18/2021 at 6:31 PM, GreeneHunter said:

Not to hijack the Forum .... but does Posted Vacant Land need to be insured in case a Trespasser gets hurt Trespassing ? This Clown thinks he owns my land and I have no idea who he is ! Checked trail cams today ... obviously ! Posted Signs are there !

 

 

 

No plate on it either so they would get him for not registering it. Good luck with him .

[ATbuckhunter]

12 minutes ago, land 1 said:

ok guys do you know criminal trespass is not the same charge as trespass, trespass is a violation, criminal trespass is a misdeameanor and normally deals with buildings, gates, dwellings etc.....and some people are right the court may toss the charge at times but at the time you got the ticket u were arrested and there would have to be probable cause for said ticket/arrest to take place.......again each case is specific to the incident

"Trespass on Land

New York law provides that a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to such person by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner."

They are different, but neither can not be given unless its proven that proper notice was given. Just because a ticket was given doesn't really mean anything. I think we all know that cops can give BS tickets 

Edited June 19, 2021 by ATbuckhunter