Crossbow Failed Again

[Four Seasons]

1 hour ago, Foggy Mountain said:

Horsedung. It’s happened in a state right next door.  I don’t even hunt the state I live in because of it. Least not most places and very limited there. Once we had a real nice herd. 
Yes The liberal bag limits hurt that, baiting also doesn’t help but I’m sure some girls in NY can’t kill deer by not baiting as well. You only need to look at sporting goods stores mid state selling all the bait. 
The crossbow thing that’s most problematic is they bring firearm mentality into a season that doesn’t need it. 
One spot on the federal land I hunted for years is lined up with guys driving from minute one of opening day. They drive by you all day long just as in firearm season. How can you bowhunt there? You can’t, gotta move, than guys show up there, gotta move again. 
They also wish things easier and easier. Look at the crossgun shoots 2 bolts. The ten point garmin set that ranges for you. Raven claiming 100 yards. I’ll be honest any bow can do that. Surely any crossbow but the hang time of the arrow is just too long resulting in wounded deer. 
Firearm guys can learn for sure but they don’t want to learn, they want things easy. God almighty NY firearm is super easy and early enough already. A crossgun has more in common with a gun than with a bow. That can’t be argued. It should be completely removed from archery season except in the case of legitimate medical reasons. 

Ahhhh.  Sounds like someone either A. Has to become a much better hunter or B. Get a real job and buy your own piece of property so you can call all the shots.  Until then I guess you will just have to deal with other hunters in the woods hunting THIER way. 

[grampy]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 the second someone uses the term crossgun I quit reading


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+ 1

That is by far the silliest phrase, of all who never fired a CROSSBOW.

[Cory]

NYS has a draw weight of 200 lbs. now I am noticing manufacturers are listing draw effort. Is this to confuse the laws regarding draw weight?

[Five Seasons]

and yet the industry itself markets it as such

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/next-rifle-crossbow/

Edited September 7, 2021 by Belo

[The_Real_TCIII]

31 minutes ago, Belo said:

and yet the industry itself markets it as such

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/next-rifle-crossbow/

Thats been around for thousands of years!

[Jeremy K]

47 minutes ago, Belo said:

and yet the industry itself markets it as such

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/next-rifle-crossbow/

It's exactly the same as the guys who shoot a vertical bow and use a release aid LOL

[jperch]

So, a serious question that perhaps some of those with legal expertise can answer.  Apparently the DEC needs the legislature to pass a law in order for full inclusion of crossbows in archery season to occur.  At least, for several years there has been the announcement that the legislature failed to pass the law or even vote on it.  On the other hand, the DEC was recently able to make significant changes to the big game hunting regulations without involvement of the legislature, at least as far as I know.  So what is the difference?  Exactly what does the DEC have the authority to control?  I have the impression from things I have read that the DEC is in favor of full inclusion.

[grampy]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

and yet the industry itself markets it as such

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/next-rifle-crossbow/

Where is the word CROSSGUN? I don't see it? Yes, I see "Rifle like accuracy" but that could also be used to market a new compound bow, or even a slingshot or BB gun for that matter. 

[Gobbler Chaser]

1 hour ago, jperch said:

So, a serious question that perhaps some of those with legal expertise can answer.  Apparently the DEC needs the legislature to pass a law in order for full inclusion of crossbows in archery season to occur.  At least, for several years there has been the announcement that the legislature failed to pass the law or even vote on it.  On the other hand, the DEC was recently able to make significant changes to the big game hunting regulations without involvement of the legislature, at least as far as I know.  So what is the difference?  Exactly what does the DEC have the authority to control?  I have the impression from things I have read that the DEC is in favor of full inclusion.

Good question. 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Thats been around for thousands of years!

yeah the medieval crossbows were very similar. Just like the compound is to the recurve...

2 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

It's exactly the same as the guys who shoot a vertical bow and use a release aid LOL

I don't know what or why or whatever your point is here. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of a few that get all hot and bothered by the term crossgun and how the industry markets these tools. My compound has nothing to do with this, unless you want to point out that no compound has ever been marketed as "rifle like"

1 hour ago, grampy said:

Where is the word CROSSGUN? I don't see it? Yes, I see "Rifle like accuracy" but that could also be used to market a new compound bow, or even a slingshot or BB gun for that matter. 

the term isn't there grampy and you know it. I very much respect you and your posts and I know that you're learned enough to know the point I was making here with regards to the marketing. Furthermore, I'll gladly concede my point if you can find this kind of marketing for a compound.

and a bb gun... is a gun... so?

[The_Real_TCIII]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

yeah the medieval crossbows were very similar. Just like the compound is to the recurve...

 

I was being facetious 

[Five Seasons]

guns.com covered it lmao

 

[Five Seasons]

one more for semantics, as "rifle like accuracy" wasn't enough.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Belo

[The_Real_TCIII]

Just now, Belo said:

one more for semantics 

Thats the same one King Joffrey had

[Five Seasons]

4 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I was being facetious 

sorry man, i can't remember who is who in my crossbow arguments sometimes

[grampy]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

yeah the medieval crossbows were very similar. Just like the compound is to the recurve...

I don't know what or why or whatever your point is here. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of a few that get all hot and bothered by the term crossgun and how the industry markets these tools. My compound has nothing to do with this, unless you want to point out that no compound has ever been marketed as "rifle like"

the term isn't there grampy and you know it. I very much respect you and your posts and I know that you're learned enough to know the point I was making here with regards to the marketing. Furthermore, I'll gladly concede my point if you can find this kind of marketing for a compound.

and a bb gun... is a gun... so?

We certainly have a mutual respect Belo. And we can agree to disagree on crossbow issues. That's what being here is all about.

But........ marketing for "ANYTHING" is just hype to sell something. Your Next Rifle, and Rifle Like Accuracy, are just marketing words, meant simply to sell a product. Now I don't actually know if the marketing word 'Rifle', has been used to sell a compound bow? But since today's compounds are so much more advanced, than the first one I bought in the early 80s, it very well could be used to sell compounds? But surely, the fastest compound, or crossbow, will not actually shoot like a rifle.

I still, and always will consider myself a bowhunter. That has been my love, and passion for many years. I will admit that a bow killed deer is the most rewarding to ME. I have killed a couple with the "crossbow" too, and yes it was fun and exciting at 20 yards. The same distance as I would shoot one with my bow. But my bow will always be #1.

I may carry a crossbow a couple times a season? Nice to have a choice. One day in the not so distant future, a crossbow will be all I will be able to carry, during whatever part of the season NYS DEC says it's legal to do so. My standing point in the discussion of bows and crossbow's, is that I have used and killed deer with BOTH. Not many "CROSSGUNNERS" can say that. And my crossbow does not come close to any firearm I have. 

I still say, like them or not, CROSSBOW'S, will be more a part of the future hunting in NYS. And calling them CROSSGUNS just sounds so silly to me, and makes those that use that reference sound silly too. 

Call it what you like. It still is what it is, a CROSSBOW. The definition, only being decided by whatever side of the issue you are on.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by grampy

[Caveman]

So, a serious question that perhaps some of those with legal expertise can answer.  Apparently the DEC needs the legislature to pass a law in order for full inclusion of crossbows in archery season to occur.  At least, for several years there has been the announcement that the legislature failed to pass the law or even vote on it.  On the other hand, the DEC was recently able to make significant changes to the big game hunting regulations without involvement of the legislature, at least as far as I know.  So what is the difference?  Exactly what does the DEC have the authority to control?  I have the impression from things I have read that the DEC is in favor of full inclusion.

Because the current crossbow season is delineated by statute, not regulation. It's codified at Section 11-0907(10) of the Environmental Conservation Law. Theoretically, the DEC can only act as authorized by the legislature (I say "theoretically" because it is a little more complicated than that). But where the the legislature has explicitly said you can do A but not B, DEC can't authorize you to do B.

The broad changes that DEC recently enacted where all areas where the NYS legislature explicitly or implicitly authorized it to regulate.

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[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

one more for semantics, as "rifle like accuracy" wasn't enough.

Exactly. The point being made is that this weapon… crossBOW. Is as lethal and accurate as a rifle. Meaning it is a perfectly legit weapon to hunt game with. It kills by arrow so it should be classed as archery. 

[jperch]

58 minutes ago, Caveman said:

Because the current crossbow season is delineated by statute, not regulation. It's codified at Section 11-0907(10) of the Environmental Conservation Law. Theoretically, the DEC can only act as authorized by the legislature (I say "theoretically" because it is a little more complicated than that). But where the the legislature has explicitly said you can do A but not B, DEC can't authorize you to do B.

The broad changes that DEC recently enacted where all areas where the NYS legislature explicitly or implicitly authorized it to regulate.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

Thank you Caveman.  So the DEC has authority to make changes to some regulations and not make changes to Environmental Conservation Law.  Presumably the legislature maintains control of the crossbow inclusion decision for political reasons.  Frankly it is surprising to me that they allowed DEC to make the recent changes without their explicit blessing.  Probably this was worked out with leaders of DEC and the legislature.

[Gobbler Chaser]

I'm pretty sure Ohio has had full inclusion since something like the 1970s. Now get ready for all the "Well Ohio's season is a Disaster" crowd to chime in.

[Buckmaster7600]

  Imagine just how many more Hunters would be " in the Game" and Afield  if Crossbow opened on the Archery  Opener. 
  Imagine how many Upland Bird Hunters,Small Game Hunters,+ yeah- Turkey Hunters who don't  have much motivation to Hunt Deer- these Hunters just found out that they can take a Cross"Bow" out on October  1st in Beautiful  Early Fall Weather on Public Dirt and with their other Hunting Skills just " Tweaked" a little bit for Deer Hunting in Beautiful  early Fall Weather.--
  Imagine  that these "New" Deer Hunters are Thinking- Man,I see Nice Bucks every September  walking right next to this Creek. Close enough to Hit with a Stone as they Stand right there Watching me. I think,I will just Sit right There with this New Cross"Bow" come October 1st. 
  Imagine that Ralph who Hunts this area every Year in October  with his expensive compound Bow and has this 8 Point Buck " pegged" out for himself just found out that Cross"Bow" somehow  Passed this year. 
  Imagine that Ralph who is in his Hunting Prime at age 35 is now super worried  that this Old Dude in his 60s who actually  Scouts for Fall Turkeys and knows this huge section of Public Hardwoods as well as Ralph  will " take up" this new opportunity  of Cross"Bow" opening on the Archery Deer Opener.
  Imagine now- " a Thousand" Ralphs who have had Absolutely  Awesome Deer Hunting on Public Dirt on the October  1st Opener for Archery Deer and thereafter as well learn they have to contend with a Bunch of new Hunters on ( Their) Chosen Public Area where they have taken pictures of Awesome Bucks and posted those pics on Social Sites in many past Fall Seasons.
  Imagine how alot of the elite Compound  Deer Hunters on talking with each other say-- How in the Hell did this Bullshit Pass?!  We have been hard on the DEC for years about not allowing  " This"...
  Imagine that the Old Dude in his 60s who hunts Turkeys with the Mindset- " The Early Bird Gets The Worm" is setup near that Creek and sitting motionless at 3.45am on October 1st.  And the Buck is there like Clockwork and our Cross"Bow"  Old Dude who is known for his other Shooting Skills does not miss.
  Imagine that Ralph arrives a little bit later to see " His" Pegged out Buck laying Dead. The Old Dude has his Heavy Hands upon it.
  Imagine now that in a future year this scenario  could play out in many areas of New York as many old + veteran hunters take up this "New" Challenge  of Cross"Bow" Deer Hunting on the Archery Deer opener with the thought that- I actually  have a Good Chance to Take a unpressured  Buck in comfortable  early Fall Weather .
  Imagine...

I’ve read this twice and have no clue what you’re saying!


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[Five Seasons]

14 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’ve read this twice and have no clue what you’re saying!


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I got my Bill-decoder out after read #3.

Dude is basically saying armies of small game and bird hunters like him would suddenly enter the woods if it was full inclusion, knowing full well he could legally hunt with one now from 11/6 till 1/1 and doesn't. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Belo

[Jeremy K]

37 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

  Imagine just how many more Hunters would be " in the Game" and Afield  if Crossbow opened on the Archery  Opener. 

  Imagine how many Upland Bird Hunters,Small Game Hunters,+ yeah- Turkey Hunters who don't  have much motivation to Hunt Deer- these Hunters just found out that they can take a Cross"Bow" out on October  1st in Beautiful  Early Fall Weather on Public Dirt and with their other Hunting Skills just " Tweaked" a little bit for Deer Hunting in Beautiful  early Fall Weather.--

  Imagine  that these "New" Deer Hunters are Thinking- Man,I see Nice Bucks every September  walking right next to this Creek. Close enough to Hit with a Stone as they Stand right there Watching me. I think,I will just Sit right There with this New Cross"Bow" come October 1st. 

  Imagine that Ralph who Hunts this area every Year in October  with his expensive compound Bow and has this 8 Point Buck " pegged" out for himself just found out that Cross"Bow" somehow  Passed this year. 

  Imagine that Ralph who is in his Hunting Prime at age 35 is now super worried  that this Old Dude in his 60s who actually  Scouts for Fall Turkeys and knows this huge section of Public Hardwoods as well as Ralph  will " take up" this new opportunity  of Cross"Bow" opening on the Archery Deer Opener.

  Imagine now- " a Thousand" Ralphs who have had Absolutely  Awesome Deer Hunting on Public Dirt on the October  1st Opener for Archery Deer and thereafter as well learn they have to contend with a Bunch of new Hunters on ( Their) Chosen Public Area where they have taken pictures of Awesome Bucks and posted those pics on Social Sites in many past Fall Seasons.

  Imagine how alot of the elite Compound  Deer Hunters on talking with each other say-- How in the Hell did this Bullshit Pass?!  We have been hard on the DEC for years about not allowing  " This"...

  Imagine that the Old Dude in his 60s who hunts Turkeys with the Mindset- " The Early Bird Gets The Worm" is setup near that Creek and sitting motionless at 3.45am on October 1st.  And the Buck is there like Clockwork and our Cross"Bow"  Old Dude who is known for his other Shooting Skills does not miss.

  Imagine that Ralph arrives a little bit later to see " His" Pegged out Buck laying Dead. The Old Dude has his Heavy Hands upon it.

  Imagine now that in a future year this scenario  could play out in many areas of New York as many old + veteran hunters take up this "New" Challenge  of Cross"Bow" Deer Hunting on the Archery Deer opener with the thought that- I actually  have a Good Chance to Take a unpressured  Buck in comfortable  early Fall Weather .

  

I'm sure "ralph" has never once considered wind direction while hunting birds with scatter shot and sends every deer in the woods running for easier to hunt private land. LOL 

[DirtTime]

1 hour ago, blackbeltbill said:

  Imagine just how many more Hunters would be " in the Game" and Afield  if Crossbow opened on the Archery  Opener. 

  Imagine how many Upland Bird Hunters,Small Game Hunters,+ yeah- Turkey Hunters who don't  have much motivation to Hunt Deer- these Hunters just found out that they can take a Cross"Bow" out on October  1st in Beautiful  Early Fall Weather on Public Dirt and with their other Hunting Skills just " Tweaked" a little bit for Deer Hunting in Beautiful  early Fall Weather.--

  Imagine  that these "New" Deer Hunters are Thinking- Man,I see Nice Bucks every September  walking right next to this Creek. Close enough to Hit with a Stone as they Stand right there Watching me. I think,I will just Sit right There with this New Cross"Bow" come October 1st. 

  Imagine that Ralph who Hunts this area every Year in October  with his expensive compound Bow and has this 8 Point Buck " pegged" out for himself just found out that Cross"Bow" somehow  Passed this year. 

  Imagine that Ralph who is in his Hunting Prime at age 35 is now super worried  that this Old Dude in his 60s who actually  Scouts for Fall Turkeys and knows this huge section of Public Hardwoods as well as Ralph  will " take up" this new opportunity  of Cross"Bow" opening on the Archery Deer Opener.

  Imagine now- " a Thousand" Ralphs who have had Absolutely  Awesome Deer Hunting on Public Dirt on the October  1st Opener for Archery Deer and thereafter as well learn they have to contend with a Bunch of new Hunters on ( Their) Chosen Public Area where they have taken pictures of Awesome Bucks and posted those pics on Social Sites in many past Fall Seasons.

  Imagine how alot of the elite Compound  Deer Hunters on talking with each other say-- How in the Hell did this Bullshit Pass?!  We have been hard on the DEC for years about not allowing  " This"...

  Imagine that the Old Dude in his 60s who hunts Turkeys with the Mindset- " The Early Bird Gets The Worm" is setup near that Creek and sitting motionless at 3.45am on October 1st.  And the Buck is there like Clockwork and our Cross"Bow"  Old Dude who is known for his other Shooting Skills does not miss.

  Imagine that Ralph arrives a little bit later to see " His" Pegged out Buck laying Dead. The Old Dude has his Heavy Hands upon it.

  Imagine now that in a future year this scenario  could play out in many areas of New York as many old + veteran hunters take up this "New" Challenge  of Cross"Bow" Deer Hunting on the Archery Deer opener with the thought that- I actually  have a Good Chance to Take a unpressured  Buck in comfortable  early Fall Weather .

  Imagine...

Maybe Ralph should stop whining and buy a vertical bow to get after those deer on 10/1. I'm not being negative towards you Bill, just pointing out that "these small game hunters" can go out there on 10/1, BUT - they CHOOSE NOT TOO!

[Bodhi_308]

4 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

  Imagine just how many more Hunters would be " in the Game" and Afield  if Crossbow opened on the Archery  Opener. 

  Imagine how many Upland Bird Hunters,Small Game Hunters,+ yeah- Turkey Hunters who don't  have much motivation to Hunt Deer- these Hunters just found out that they can take a Cross"Bow" out on October  1st in Beautiful  Early Fall Weather on Public Dirt and with their other Hunting Skills just " Tweaked" a little bit for Deer Hunting in Beautiful  early Fall Weather.--

  Imagine  that these "New" Deer Hunters are Thinking- Man,I see Nice Bucks every September  walking right next to this Creek. Close enough to Hit with a Stone as they Stand right there Watching me. I think,I will just Sit right There with this New Cross"Bow" come October 1st. 

  Imagine that Ralph who Hunts this area every Year in October  with his expensive compound Bow and has this 8 Point Buck " pegged" out for himself just found out that Cross"Bow" somehow  Passed this year. 

  Imagine that Ralph who is in his Hunting Prime at age 35 is now super worried  that this Old Dude in his 60s who actually  Scouts for Fall Turkeys and knows this huge section of Public Hardwoods as well as Ralph  will " take up" this new opportunity  of Cross"Bow" opening on the Archery Deer Opener.

  Imagine now- " a Thousand" Ralphs who have had Absolutely  Awesome Deer Hunting on Public Dirt on the October  1st Opener for Archery Deer and thereafter as well learn they have to contend with a Bunch of new Hunters on ( Their) Chosen Public Area where they have taken pictures of Awesome Bucks and posted those pics on Social Sites in many past Fall Seasons.

  Imagine how alot of the elite Compound  Deer Hunters on talking with each other say-- How in the Hell did this Bullshit Pass?!  We have been hard on the DEC for years about not allowing  " This"...

  Imagine that the Old Dude in his 60s who hunts Turkeys with the Mindset- " The Early Bird Gets The Worm" is setup near that Creek and sitting motionless at 3.45am on October 1st.  And the Buck is there like Clockwork and our Cross"Bow"  Old Dude who is known for his other Shooting Skills does not miss.

  Imagine that Ralph arrives a little bit later to see " His" Pegged out Buck laying Dead. The Old Dude has his Heavy Hands upon it.

  Imagine now that in a future year this scenario  could play out in many areas of New York as many old + veteran hunters take up this "New" Challenge  of Cross"Bow" Deer Hunting on the Archery Deer opener with the thought that- I actually  have a Good Chance to Take a unpressured  Buck in comfortable  early Fall Weather .

  Imagine...

I think they should allow rifles during archery season…