Why??

[Shoots100]

1 hour ago, chrisw said:

 In my opinion the DEC doesn't have a clue how many deer we have. I'm not saying there is a foolproof way of knowing but they paint areas with an extremely wide brush and as a result the numbers are not what they seem. 

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Here's the deer plan that the ignorant "Idiots" at the NYSDEC have come up with.

Maybe the two experts here could attend a meeting and show these ignorant "Idiots" how it's done  ?

DEC management plan

I'm sure that the same deer plan they use in the mountains of Ohio, will work in the Adirondacks ?

You know, the Largest park in the US, 6 million acres, with several mountain peaks over 5K high, just like the mountains in Ohio and Missouri. 

I've been hunting all over the US and abroad for longer than some here are alive.

I've never ever heard anyone at SCI say that they were booking a trip to NYS to deer hunt, or any other type of hunting either.

Small mouth bass and great lakes fishing, Yes, Hunting , No.

 

 

[land 1]

15 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

Here's the deer plan that the ignorant "Idiots" at the NYSDEC have come up with.

Maybe the two experts here could attend a meeting and show these ignorant "Idiots" how it's done  ?

DEC management plan

I'm sure that the same deer plan they use in the mountains of Ohio, will work in the Adirondacks ?

You know, the Largest park in the US, 6 million acres, with several mountain peaks over 5K high, just like the mountains in Ohio and Missouri. 

I've been hunting all over the US and abroad for longer than some here are alive.

I've never ever heard anyone at SCI say that they were booking a trip to NYS to deer hunt, or any other type of hunting either.

Small mouth bass and great lakes fishing, Yes, Hunting , No.

 

 

Thanks for info..... good post....I was going to try and point out some the points in the DEC mgt plan but when people just dismiss the numbers and studies that have been done by trained persons whats the point, also glad to hear from some who has hunted other states and says NY are not those states nor should new york be managed like other states.

Edited December 8, 2021 by land 1

[PraiseDiana]

51 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

Here's the deer plan that the ignorant "Idiots" at the NYSDEC have come up with.

Maybe the two experts here could attend a meeting and show these ignorant "Idiots" how it's done  ?

DEC management plan

I'm sure that the same deer plan they use in the mountains of Ohio, will work in the Adirondacks ?

You know, the Largest park in the US, 6 million acres, with several mountain peaks over 5K high, just like the mountains in Ohio and Missouri. 

I've been hunting all over the US and abroad for longer than some here are alive.

I've never ever heard anyone at SCI say that they were booking a trip to NYS to deer hunt, or any other type of hunting either.

Small mouth bass and great lakes fishing, Yes, Hunting , No.

 

 

Thanks for the link to the actual management plan!

[Five Seasons]

17 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

Here's the deer plan that the ignorant "Idiots" at the NYSDEC have come up with.

Maybe the two experts here could attend a meeting and show these ignorant "Idiots" how it's done  ?

DEC management plan

I'm sure that the same deer plan they use in the mountains of Ohio, will work in the Adirondacks ?

You know, the Largest park in the US, 6 million acres, with several mountain peaks over 5K high, just like the mountains in Ohio and Missouri. 

I've been hunting all over the US and abroad for longer than some here are alive.

I've never ever heard anyone at SCI say that they were booking a trip to NYS to deer hunt, or any other type of hunting either.

Small mouth bass and great lakes fishing, Yes, Hunting , No.

 

 

We've all read their plans. Yet their actions this year alone added season length and nonsense laws like mandatory orange, with only one positive change (hunting hours). Essentially everything they've done has just been to add time to hunting, which many of us believe is actually a negative for the herds. You don't have to be employed by the DEC to have good knowledge of whitetail management. Furthermore, if you ever believe that anything run by the government is free from outside influences like animal rights activists, snowmobile clubs, private land owners, hunting gear manufacturers, auto insurance companies etc...

 

well Reagan said it best

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

We've all read their plans. Yet their actions this year alone added season length and nonsense laws like mandatory orange, with only one positive change (hunting hours). Essentially everything they've done has just been to add time to hunting, which many of us believe is actually a negative for the herds. You don't have to be employed by the DEC to have good knowledge of whitetail management. Furthermore, if you ever believe that anything run by the government is free from outside influences like animal rights activists, snowmobile clubs, private land owners, hunting gear manufacturers, auto insurance companies etc...

 

well Reagan said it best

Do you know how much the 30 min extensions effected deer harvest numbers? I know a lot of my sightings are in these time frames.

Edited December 8, 2021 by 9jNYstarkOH

[Five Seasons]

15 minutes ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

Do you know how much the 30 min extensions effected deer harvest numbers? I know a lot of my sightings are in these time frames.

I don't think we will ever know as a hunter doesn't have to report their time of harvest. I also think a minority of hunters paid much attention to them. This i can't back up either but as we all know it is plenty light at previous illegal times and I believe many hunted those times anyhow. Heck during bow you'd never know... 

[wolc123]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

We've all read their plans. Yet their actions this year alone added season length and nonsense laws like mandatory orange, with only one positive change (hunting hours). Essentially everything they've done has just been to add time to hunting, which many of us believe is actually a negative for the herds. You don't have to be employed by the DEC to have good knowledge of whitetail management. Furthermore, if you ever believe that anything run by the government is free from outside influences like animal rights activists, snowmobile clubs, private land owners, hunting gear manufacturers, auto insurance companies etc...

 

well Reagan said it best

What nonsense ?

I am lovin the changes this year, and was able to cash in on three of them so far: early antlerless gun season, reopened antlerless Adirondack early ML season, and the extra 1/2 hour past sunset (I only needed 6 minutes of that one).  Without them changes, there might be three more paper tags in my wallet and an empty freezer. 
 

I think the best is yet to come, with the Holiday ML season.  That orange hat/vest law was a small price to pay for all of that. I always wore one anyway, when walking around with a gun.

 I was a little discouraged earlier this year, after missing most of the two week SZ crossbow season, due to other unexpected  commitments. That new Holiday season takes away all of the pain of that yet unfilled archery/ML buck tag.  
 

Bravo NY DEC, and please keep up the spectacular work, that makes NY state a true meat-hunter’s paradise, while also looking out for the other groups (motorists, farmers, and homeowners) who have an interest in maintaining optimum deer numbers.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by wolc123

[land 1]

Ive also heard from people that the blaze orange law is stupid, but seems to me no matter where you hunt during gun its a common sense to wear it ,,, i wore it prior and deer dont even see orange

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, land 1 said:

Ive also heard from people that the blaze orange law is stupid, but seems to me no matter where you hunt during gun its a common sense to wear it ,,, i wore it prior and deer dont even see orange

I think most of the complaints have been from folks who hunt in suburban areas or areas visible from a road and don’t want other people, especially those who may oppose hunting, to see them. 

The only change I made because of the new law, is that I no longer swap out my orange hat for a camo one, when I get up in my stand.  This hat didn’t bother this 3.5 year old, from 50 yards away, when I was 8 feet up a tree.  Maybe it would have if the sun was still up, but it had been down 6 minutes:

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by wolc123

[Buckmaster7600]

I would love a much shorter gun season for all of NY except the Adirondack park. The only reason the season should stay the same in the park is that hunters have basically zero impact on deer herd.

Where my home farm is we have 8 weeks of gun season in agriculture land on the south eastern tip of the northern zone. On 250 acres with 13 cameras I didn’t get a pic of a buck older than 2.5 this year. The only buck killed on the property was a 1.5yr old shot by my 14tr old daughter. It’s basically impossible to have a buck reach maturity around here with the hunting pressure and length of gun season.


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[G-Man]

3 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I would love a much shorter gun season for all of NY except the Adirondack park. The only reason the season should stay the same in the park is that hunters have basically zero impact on deer herd.

Where my home farm is we have 8 weeks of gun season in agriculture land on the south eastern tip of the northern zone. On 250 acres with 13 cameras I didn’t get a pic of a buck older than 2.5 this year. The only buck killed on the property was a 1.5yr old shot by my 14tr old daughter. It’s basically impossible to have a buck reach maturity around here with the hunting pressure and length of gun season.


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That a buck cannot reach maturity is simply a habitat issue,  they maKe it here and there are over 20 hunters per square mile.  HabitT improvement and çreation of a sanctuary on private land does that very quick.  Most of ny habitat is pretty poor  the dec can manage numbers on a large scale but small scale must be done by private land owners.  

Wmu are large and great hunting cN be found in  them but deer are in pockets is what you hear hunters complain about. My area gave out nearly no  doe tags thus year, but last year knowing the population was down I didn't let everyone fill doe tags tonwhile the dec reacted this year by knowing the local population I have a abundance of doe this year and no tags.  Next year I'll be swamped if I did nothing , fortunately muzzleloader will allow me to take 3 to 5 doe I need to keep population stable here regardless of what the state issues for tag in the wmu.. 

It's not up to the dec to fine tune harvest numbers on a small scale its up to individuals. 

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, wolc123 said:

What nonsense ?

I am lovin the changes this year, and was able to cash in on three of them so far: early antlerless gun season, reopened antlerless Adirondack early ML season, and the extra 1/2 hour past sunset (I only needed 6 minutes of that one).  Without them changes, there might be three more paper tags in my wallet and an empty freezer. 
 

I think the best is yet to come, with the Holiday ML season.  That orange hat/vest law was a small price to pay for all of that. I always wore one anyway, when walking around with a gun.

 I was a little discouraged earlier this year, after missing most of the two week SZ crossbow season, due to other unexpected  commitments. That new Holiday season takes away all of the pain of that yet unfilled archery/ML buck tag.  
 

Bravo NY DEC, and please keep up the spectacular work, that makes NY state a true meat-hunter’s paradise, while also looking out for the other groups (motorists, farmers, and homeowners) who have an interest in maintaining optimum deer numbers.

 

 

I respect your opinion, but I think you're misunderstanding mine. It's not that the changes will lead to less deer being killed and less tags, of course it wont. But eventually that added pressure on the already overhunted lands we can access will hurt the overall health of the population. 

I hunt 3 properties and have cams on 2 of them. The last few weeks one would think they're peaking into the aftermath of a raid. Both properties are hit pretty hard from the neighbors and the large doe groups have dwindled. Bucks show themselves at 2am... how can you argue this is good for them?

The issue is ACCESS 

12 hours ago, land 1 said:

Ive also heard from people that the blaze orange law is stupid, but seems to me no matter where you hunt during gun its a common sense to wear it ,,, i wore it prior and deer dont even see orange

i think we all wore orange on the ground, I know I did, even on private land. The issue is sitting in a tree or a ground blind. Why the heck does that make sense unless you're on public?

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, land 1 said:

Ive also heard from people that the blaze orange law is stupid, but seems to me no matter where you hunt during gun its a common sense to wear it ,,, i wore it prior and deer dont even see orange

Deer don't , buy coyotes do.  Maybe the DEC is trying to keep the opening day yote kill down.  Seems they do a lot to keep their populations up.

[Buckmaster7600]

That a buck cannot reach maturity is simply a habitat issue,  they maKe it here and there are over 20 hunters per square mile.  HabitT improvement and çreation of a sanctuary on private land does that very quick.  Most of ny habitat is pretty poor  the dec can manage numbers on a large scale but small scale must be done by private land owners.  
Wmu are large and great hunting cN be found in  them but deer are in pockets is what you hear hunters complain about. My area gave out nearly no  doe tags thus year, but last year knowing the population was down I didn't let everyone fill doe tags tonwhile the dec reacted this year by knowing the local population I have a abundance of doe this year and no tags.  Next year I'll be swamped if I did nothing , fortunately muzzleloader will allow me to take 3 to 5 doe I need to keep population stable here regardless of what the state issues for tag in the wmu.. 
It's not up to the dec to fine tune harvest numbers on a small scale its up to individuals. 

I’ve done a ton of habitat work. We have two 40ish acre sanctuary’s that are extremely thick that I’ve done hinge cuttings etc to improve. The problem is we are surrounded by neighbors that shoot the first 2 bucks they see and no matter what you do you can’t keep a buck on your property.

With 8 weeks of gun and surrounded by hunters a buck doesn’t have a chance, there’s too much time for him to make a mistake!


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[ncountry]

6 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’ve done a ton of habitat work. We have two 40ish acre sanctuary’s that are extremely thick that I’ve done hinge cuttings etc to improve. The problem is we are surrounded by neighbors that shoot the first 2 bucks they see and no matter what you do you can’t keep a buck on your property.

With 8 weeks of gun and surrounded by hunters a buck doesn’t have a chance, there’s too much time for him to make a mistake!


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This is very similar to what I have in my area. The deer #s are coming back after years of 0 dmps. Now you can drive around the blocks and see dozens of deer with 0 bucks in the fields even 5-6hrs after dark. 

My property should be a great sanctuary if it wasnt so far from a major food source. We are too far from the ag fields to hold a large amount of deer. Most of the population live within the 1st 1/4 mile from the main food source. 

It's why I don't hunt my own property much.  The odds of even seeing a 2.5 year old buck are very slim. FIL and some friends harvest a few 1.5s a year.

Back in the day I enjoyed it also. It was a challenge for me to shoot one. 

A friend  has a property less than a 1/4 mile away and backs right up to the fields on one side and 300+ acres of nonhunted land on the other. He has some food plots for the deer to stop at before they hit the fields. Him and his dad shoot 2.5+ year old bucks any time they want..lol . It's  the perfect situated 40 acre piece.

[Buckmaster7600]

This is very similar to what I have in my area. The deer #s are coming back after years of 0 dmps. Now you can drive around the blocks and see dozens of deer with 0 bucks in the fields even 5-6hrs after dark. 
My property should be a great sanctuary if it wasnt so far from a major food source. We are too far from the ag fields to hold a large amount of deer. Most of the population live within the 1st 1/4 mile from the main food source. 
It's why I don't hunt my own property much.  The odds of even seeing a 2.5 year old buck are very slim. FIL and some friends harvest a few 1.5s a year.
Back in the day I enjoyed it also. It was a challenge for me to shoot one. 
A friend  has a property less than a 1/4 mile away and backs right up to the fields on one side and 300+ acres of nonhunted land on the other. He has some food plots for the deer to stop at before they hit the fields. Him and his dad shoot 2.5+ year old bucks any time they want..lol . It's  the perfect situated 40 acre piece.

We have 116 acres of tillable land. 103 of it we rent to a local dairy farmer. It’s all either corn or alfalfa. I give him a bit of a deal and he only picks the corn so it’s standing well into November. The other 13 acres are plots we plant with a variety of crops.

We also have a good amount of oaks and apple trees. We have everything a deer could ever need but with our current seasons it’s just nearly impossible to get a 3+yr old buck. In the last 10+yrs of running cameras we’ve had less than 10 mature “3+yr old” bucks on camera.


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[ncountry]

15 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

We have 116 acres of tillable land. 103 of it we rent to a local dairy farmer. It’s all either corn or alfalfa. I give him a bit of a deal and he only picks the corn so it’s standing well into November. The other 13 acres are plots we plant with a variety of crops.

We also have a good amount of oaks and apple trees. We have everything a deer could ever need but with our current seasons it’s just nearly impossible to get a 3+yr old buck. In the last 10+yrs of running cameras we’ve had less than 10 mature “3+yr old” bucks on camera.

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3+ years. Yikes . I've only every had a handful of 2.5 over the years and they normaly die the 1st weekend of early myzzleloader in the crop fields .

There was a period where I limited those on our  100 acres of old farm fields,swamp and brushy woods to 

8 points(roughly)or better. We do have a nice natural apple orchard that  is easy to poke a doe or young buck in early before muzzle loader starts. Apples and deer are gone by the time the rut hits. 

That just resulted in a bunch of years with no buck taken by us . I gave up and let them  shoot whatever they want.

Edited December 9, 2021 by ncountry

[ApexerER]

Your property is beautiful from the little i saw of it. Camera's don't always tell the whole story. I bet there are 3+ year old bucks there somewhere.  I have killed 3 bucks in my life that i believe were 3+. My crossbow buck this year, the buck in my avatar, and my first wall hanger. Maybe i am wrong and they are only 2.5. I guess my point is, from all they guys running camera's on our lease, including myself, we rarely if ever get a 3+ buck on camera but i believe they are there. We didn't have any pics of the 3 bucks i have gotten. Maybe we just aren't very good at placing camera's. 

 

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

We have 116 acres of tillable land. 103 of it we rent to a local dairy farmer. It’s all either corn or alfalfa. I give him a bit of a deal and he only picks the corn so it’s standing well into November. The other 13 acres are plots we plant with a variety of crops.

We also have a good amount of oaks and apple trees. We have everything a deer could ever need but with our current seasons it’s just nearly impossible to get a 3+yr old buck. In the last 10+yrs of running cameras we’ve had less than 10 mature “3+yr old” bucks on camera.


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Edited December 9, 2021 by ApexerER

[Buckmaster7600]

Your property is beautiful from the little i saw of it. Camera's don't always tell the whole story. I bet there are 3+ year old bucks there somewhere.  I have killed 3 bucks in my life that i believe were 3+. My crossbow buck this year, the buck in my avatar, and my first wall hanger. Maybe i am wrong and they are only 2.5. I guess my point is, from all they guys running camera's on our lease, including myself, we rarely if ever get a 3+ buck on camera but i believe they are there. We didn't have any pics of the 3 bucks i have gotten. Maybe we just aren't very good at placing camera's. 
 

It’s a possibility, I’m not there to hunt it much during the season as I’m always up north but my brother hunts it some. With us running that many cams from may-Jan in funnels, on feed, over sign etc. it would be hard for me to believe if there was a mature buck living on us or close by that we wouldn’t get a pic of him especially since we don’t hardly ever check the cams maybe once before and once after season.

Talked to a fella at Stewart’s this morning that hunts my neighbors 13 acres and between the 5 of them that hunt it they killed 8 bucks so far, Biggest was a 5pt. This is what happens on all but one neighboring property. A buck just doesn’t have a chance.


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[ncountry]

On a side note. It is rare for my friend with the plots to see any of the more mature bucks on his cams until the rut . They most likely live on the neighbors sanctuary and come over after the does that frequent his plots..

This weekend I'm headed down to the northern adks. Maybe I can cross a deer track. I walked around a 10 mile loop Saturday and cut coyote tracks everywhere but not a single deer track.

Sad to see. I havnt been to this particular piece in 5-10 years. This was exactly why I stopped hunting it.

15-20 years ago there was quite a few deer there for the big woods.. 3500 acres was basically clear cut and that fall I know of at least 12 mature bucks killed. It was downhill from there..Hunters in general do a terrible job of regulating ourselves.

Edited December 9, 2021 by ncountry

[Trial153]

The gun season is way too long in the southern zone and insanely too long in the Northen zone. A two buck limit is nuts especially considering that 7 out of ten bucks in the state killed are 1.5 and 2.5 years old.

But by all means carry on like good little worker drones doing the same thing and getting the same results.
Brown is down, can’t eat the horns, I don’t kill him my neighbor will.

[Buckmaster7600]

The gun season is way too long in the southern zone and insanely too long in the Northen zone. A two buck limit is nuts especially considering that 7 out of ten bucks in the state killed are 1.5 and 2.5 years old.

But by all means carry on like good little worker drones doing the same thing and getting the same results.
Brown is down, can’t eat the horns, I don’t kill him my neighbor will.

Like I said previously the Adirondack park is fine the way it is. For the most part Hunting makes zero difference with management within the park


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[Trial153]

Like I said previously the Adirondack park is fine the way it is. For the most part Hunting makes zero difference with management within the park


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I think it does. For example I have friend that hunts in a group in the park, there maybe 10-12 rotating in an out. Someone is hunting most days of the seasons. Between them all they may kill two or three bucks, mostly mature I might add. Their favorite time is the late MZ season because of the either sex tags. You better believe they fill a bunch of them.
This is in a zone that has zero DMPs. Tell me how it makes sense to allow antlerless harvest during the mz loader season in an area that they want no doe killed.
I am sure his group isn’t alone, and if your look at the yearly take in DMU with no DMP you will see substantial harvest of does listed.

It’s like saying only 5k or 8k bucks a year are killed on a second tag. Why is that of no consequence? Obviously it’s a consequence to you. Look at the dissatisfaction you have with your property and area?

These things matter. A lot of little things add up to create the hunting culture and environment in the state.

[Buckmaster7600]

I think it does. For example I have friend that hunts in a group in the park, there maybe 10-12 rotating in an out. Someone is hunting most days of the seasons. Between them all they may kill two or three bucks, mostly mature I might add. Their favorite time is the late MZ season because of the either sex tags. You better believe they fill a bunch of them.
This is in a zone that has zero DMPs. Tell me how it makes sense to allow antlerless harvest during the mz loader season in an area that they want no doe killed.
I am sure his group isn’t alone, and if your look at the yearly take in DMU with no DMP you will see substantial harvest of does listed.

It’s like saying only 5k or 8k bucks a year are killed on a second tag. Why is that of no consequence? Obviously it’s a consequence to you. Look at the dissatisfaction you have with your property and area?

These things matter. A lot of little things add up to create the hunting culture and environment in the state.

Very, very little of the Adirondack park has a late muzzleloader season, even less of the park has an either sex late muzzleloader season. I hunted over 39 days in the park this year between 4wmu’s the hunting pressure/deer kill makes zero difference on deer population. 2 hard winters in a row have more impact on the deer herd than any 10 deer seasons combined.


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[land 1]

In the Adks hunters really have  very little impact in numbers theres been years were unless the deer were getting fed 100%fawn winter kill and the older bucks take hard hits too when you know areas wher the deer winter and come spring after a hard winter that last longer then normal many of those deer will be dead, Adk big woods hunting is nothing like southertier hunting  . Again i wouldnt be overly upset about 1 buck a year, but leave seasons alone, my land is only 90 acres about 400yards from state land no ag in the area a few hay fields but i would say since 2016 5 deer 3 1/2 or better have been taken of mine and the surrounding pressure helps put the deer on my property during daylight....

Edited December 9, 2021 by land 1