Proposed crossbow legislation for 2022

[escpen]

21 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

The minimum draw weight for hunting is not attainable for many teens.

Is this really true?  My now 14 year old never had any trouble drawing 35 pounds when he was 12 (he's up to 50 pounds now).  My almost 12 year old draw 40 pounds and my 10 year old is drawing 35 pounds.  I know this is a rather small sample size - I'm just surprised to hear that drawing the 35 pound minimum weight is a barrier to entry into bow hunting.

[Robhuntandfish]

I bet only a minute amount of people would pick up a bow after using the X-Bow . Most archers started with a gun and then went hunting with a bow because the archery season gave them more weeks to deer hunt . That's what I did . I wanted a longer time to hunt .

If the xbow all season is only for youth or elderly then yes they would as they got older would move to the compound for the same reason you did. Plus they got hooked on hunting already thru the xbow.

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[Robhuntandfish]

Is this really true?  My now 14 year old never had any trouble drawing 35 pounds when he was 12 (he's up to 50 pounds now).  My almost 12 year old draw 40 pounds and my 10 year old is drawing 35 pounds.  I know this is a rather small sample size - I'm just surprised to hear that drawing the 35 pound minimum weight is a barrier to entry into bow hunting.

My former wife got into target shooting and struggled with the bow weight. Not sure how many can or can't. Just see it as a good option to help get youth involved in hunting. But I def would like to see it for older folks. And I was disagreeing that youth wouldnt then use a compound later. They would have to once reaching age. Most of us started out with gun hunting and then got into archery. Now I barely care about gun season as opposed to archery.

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[9jNYstarkOH]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

Lets talk about tradition.

Prior to the compound, those that were using traditional archery equipment for sport hunters were primarily native Americans right? And even then, it wasn't sport, it was for survival. The mountain men were all using rifles. IDK about you, but I'm a white European immigrant. Mostly Irish and Lithuanian. In the 70's/80's my grandfather and father and uncles started archery hunting. I believe they started with recurves, but didn't hunt with them and then very early compounds were the first bows they hunted with. That's 50 years of bowhunting history in my family. 

Now maybe some of you have relatives back to Daniel Boone, but I'm guessing they were market hunting game with rifles. Maybe some of you have Native American blood and for you tradition is different.

But I'd be my 401k that the vast majority of this board have a tradition of archery that began with the compound. The renaissance era was Fred Bear. That's when it exploded to the modern culture we know of it today. That's what I mean when I say tradition. 

I get it, you like the line drawn with you just a little on the good side of it. Most people do in all aspects of life. A lot on the board do have a tradition of compound bows as a lot of the traditional guys have died out or got to old and not many new archery hunters are taking up the added challenge of traditional. As they can just use a easier compound Bow. Again a theme that you would prefer stopped with you just a little on the good side of the line. A lot has changed since Fred Bear and the modern culture is a whole lot different than it was then in my opinion . Take a look at his old set up compared to what you are using currently, they are far apart. But honest question would you be willing to give up 2 weeks of compound season for the traditional bow hunters as that is what you expect from the crossbow hunters?Again I am happy with the seasons the way it is just willing to give my opinion on what I see as hypocritical.

Note as a fellow Irish European you should know crossbow hunting started in the 12th century way before the Fred Bear renaissance you mention.

Edited May 10, 2022 by 9jNYstarkOH

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, escpen said:

Is this really true?  My now 14 year old never had any trouble drawing 35 pounds when he was 12 (he's up to 50 pounds now).  My almost 12 year old draw 40 pounds and my 10 year old is drawing 35 pounds.  I know this is a rather small sample size - I'm just surprised to hear that drawing the 35 pound minimum weight is a barrier to entry into bow hunting.

A lot more young ladies hunting now.

Edited May 10, 2022 by 9jNYstarkOH

[Buckmaster7600]

A lot more young ladies hunting now.

My daughter is 14 and catch pull minimal legal weight. I went so far as to pay a professional instructor to see if there was something in the way she was drawing.


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[escpen]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

My daughter is 14 and catch pull minimal legal weight. I went so far as to pay a professional instructor to see if there was something in the way she was drawing.


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Out of curiosity, what bow is she using?  Like the limb width and peak draw weight restrictions on crossbows, the minimum draw weight for compound bows seems to be fairly arbitrary as well.  35 lb. peak draw weight on a high performance bow with a stiff draw cycle is going to be much harder to draw than a 35 lb. peak draw weight on a smooth drawing youth bow.  The high performance bow will also store way more energy at the same peak draw weight.  In some cases, a 25 lb. peak draw weight bow could store more energy than a 35 lb. (or more) peak draw weight bow, which would make it more capable even though the draw weight is less.

Edited May 10, 2022 by escpen

[DirtTime]

4 hours ago, fasteddie said:

I bet only a minute amount of people would pick up a bow after using the X-Bow . Most archers started with a gun and then went hunting with a bow because the archery season gave them more weeks to deer hunt . That's what I did . I wanted a longer time to hunt .

I'd have to agree with this assessment. The newer generation is going to want things as easy as possible with archery, so they can get back to posting on IG and Twit. Look up, pull trigger, back to tech device.

Edited May 10, 2022 by DirtTime

[G-Man]

7 hours ago, escpen said:

Is this really true?  My now 14 year old never had any trouble drawing 35 pounds when he was 12 (he's up to 50 pounds now).  My almost 12 year old draw 40 pounds and my 10 year old is drawing 35 pounds.  I know this is a rather small sample size - I'm just surprised to hear that drawing the 35 pound minimum weight is a barrier to entry into bow hunting.

My niece cant draw 30 yeat and shes 12.  My.nephew has hard time with coodination after a sever concussion 2 years ago hes now 19.  Everyone is different. 

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, DirtTime said:

I'd have to agree with this assessment. The newer generation is going to want things as easy as possible with archery, so they can get back to posting on IG and Twit. Look up, pull trigger, back to tech device.

I know one hunter who started with crossbow and is now using a bow after 2 years of crossbow and he prefers compound to his x bow.. so yes it does happen, many start easy and after some success use more and more primitive or harder methods..  even with rifle , going to a pistol  and perhaps ending with a flintlock pistol..  or a matchlock..  or back to a self made bow.  Archery a d use of bows will not dissappear. It will become the end game of those  that seek more of a challange.

[Lawdwaz]

2 hours ago, G-Man said:

I know one hunter who started with crossbow and is now using a bow after 2 years of crossbow and he prefers compound to his x bow.. so yes it does happen, many start easy and after some success use more and more primitive or harder methods..  even with rifle , going to a pistol  and perhaps ending with a flintlock pistol..  or a matchlock..  or back to a self made bow.  Archery a d use of bows will not dissappear. It will become the end game of those  that seek more of a challange.

You sure know a lot of people....... 

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Lawdwaz said:

You sure know a lot of people....... 

Its not what you know but who!!

this guy i gave my old bow and he killed his 1st deer with it a few weeks later. 

[Five Seasons]

22 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

The minimum draw weight for hunting is not attainable for many teens. Women are becoming a larger percentage of the hunting population as well.  Plus a xbow on a stand is generally a bit easier than a compound.  There is no reason to think that using a xbow for the first part of hunting means that no one will ever pick up a bow.  I would bet 90% of us archers started gun hunting first.   

I don't know a woman that can't pull back 55 pounds. Pretty sexists comment right there. And I know plenty of 16 year olds who can as well. You're saying they can hold a job, play sports, drive a car but can't pull 55 pounds?

[grampy]

56 minutes ago, Belo said:

I don't know a woman that can't pull back 55 pounds. Pretty sexists comment right there. And I know plenty of 16 year olds who can as well. You're saying they can hold a job, play sports, drive a car but can't pull 55 pounds?

I've been shooting bows since before you were born. And now can't draw 55lbs. On a real good day, I can draw 50lbs!!

[Five Seasons]

22 hours ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

I get it, you like the line drawn with you just a little on the good side of it. Most people do in all aspects of life. A lot on the board do have a tradition of compound bows as a lot of the traditional guys have died out or got to old and not many new archery hunters are taking up the added challenge of traditional. As they can just use a easier compound Bow. Again a theme that you would prefer stopped with you just a little on the good side of the line. A lot has changed since Fred Bear and the modern culture is a whole lot different than it was then in my opinion . Take a look at his old set up compared to what you are using currently, they are far apart. But honest question would you be willing to give up 2 weeks of compound season for the traditional bow hunters as that is what you expect from the crossbow hunters?Again I am happy with the seasons the way it is just willing to give my opinion on what I see as hypocritical.

Note as a fellow Irish European you should know crossbow hunting started in the 12th century way before the Fred Bear renaissance you mention.

So my point with the early compound compared to traditional is that traditional (outside of sustenance cultures) never really took off mainstream. They exist, they're there and they were there back in the 12th century. But they were hunting to survive, not how we hunt today in north america. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, grampy said:

I've been shooting bows since before you were born. And now can't draw 55lbs. On a real good day, I can draw 50lbs!!

and you know my feelings on the elderly and disabled grampy

[grampy]

11 minutes ago, Belo said:

and you know my feelings on the elderly and disabled grampy

I do indeed sir. I guess the point I was trying to make, is that there are many, young and older. Who may not be able to draw the minimum weight poundage for a bow in NYS. 

This thread, along with the many others like it over the years here, will seldom change others stance on the crossbow debate. Just keeps running over the same old ground. At this point if it passes fine. If not that's fine too. 

This could be the first year of me not hunting with my bow. If the law stays as is, perhaps I will buy a better camera to take out "hunting" for early bow season??

[Robhuntandfish]

I don't know a woman that can't pull back 55 pounds. Pretty sexists comment right there. And I know plenty of 16 year olds who can as well. You're saying they can hold a job, play sports, drive a car but can't pull 55 pounds?

WTH are you talking about ..... Nothing you said here was said in any of my comments. You should go easy on the day drinking.

First of all it's not 55 it's 35. And my ex wife struggled with it when she got into target shooting.

Secondly there are guys here that can't draw 55 lbs so no idea what your talking about for sure.

And my point was a 14 year old ( which is youth hunting age not 16) girl or boy for that matter is likely to struggle pulling back a bow but might get interested if they could use an xbow. Then once they turn 16 they are no longer a youth and would switch to using a bow because they are now hooked on hunting.

But whatever......pour another one and enjoy the day. It's beautiful out. Lol

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[9jNYstarkOH]

58 minutes ago, Belo said:

So my point with the early compound compared to traditional is that traditional (outside of sustenance cultures) never really took off mainstream. They exist, they're there and they were there back in the 12th century. But they were hunting to survive, not how we hunt today in north america. 

Crossbows have taken off mainstream also, look at the rapid increase of muzzleloader privileges purchased since crossbows were added.  In my opinion compounds took off mainstream as the hunting culture changed and guys are after larger bucks. If compound were not added do you think more would have gone to traditional with the current culture? I believe more would have. Would you be willing to push back 2 weeks the season you participate in to give the true traditional guy the same opportunity you enjoy? 

[Five Seasons]

On 5/10/2022 at 10:31 AM, Robhuntandfish said:

The minimum draw weight for hunting is not attainable for many teens. Women are becoming a larger percentage of the hunting population as well.  

 

21 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

WTH are you talking about ..... Nothing you said here was said in any of my comments. You should go easy on the day drinking.
 

I was not the only one who read between the lines in your comment. If you didn't mean what it seemed you said, then no biggie. However 55 pounds is not difficult for any able bodied male or female above the age of 14. Period.

For those that are elderly or disabled, we've covered that already.

next.

[johnplav]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

I was not the only one who read between the lines in your comment. If you didn't mean what it seemed you said, then no biggie. However 55 pounds is not difficult for any able bodied male or female above the age of 14. Period.

For those that are elderly or disabled, we've covered that already.

next.

I'm sure there are plenty of able bodied people who would struggle with 55lbs.  But isn't minimum draw weight 35lbs anyway?

[Robhuntandfish]

13 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

I was not the only one who read between the lines in your comment. If you didn't mean what it seemed you said, then no biggie. However 55 pounds is not difficult for any able bodied male or female above the age of 14. Period.

For those that are elderly or disabled, we've covered that already.

next.

I meant everything I said , always do.  You should read the actual lines and not what you think is between them. I hope you understand all you know about it.    

Your still the Mayor in your town for sure! - this one you can read between the lines on.  lol 

[Robhuntandfish]

22 minutes ago, johnplav said:

I'm sure there are plenty of able bodied people who would struggle with 55lbs.  But isn't minimum draw weight 35lbs anyway?

thats what i said but apparently everyone can draw 55 pounds like nothing where Belo lives.   And there thats also the minimum. And 16 is the youth season there too.  Who knew. ... its quite a place. 

apparently they are also of the woke variety since this is considered sexist to think a 14 yo girl might struggle with-Yet its ok for him to post borderline porn pics but afraid to post his deer pics on a hunting site. Must be good to be the mayor in his town.

"The minimum draw weight for hunting is not attainable for many teens. Women are becoming a larger percentage of the hunting population as well.  Plus a xbow on a stand is generally a bit easier than a compound.  There is no reason to think that using a xbow for the first part of hunting means that no one will ever pick up a bow.  I would bet 90% of us archers started gun hunting first."  - wow how sexist of me......

 

[ApexerER]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:01 AM, Belo said:

I don't know a woman that can't pull back 55 pounds. Pretty sexists comment right there. And I know plenty of 16 year olds who can as well. You're saying they can hold a job, play sports, drive a car but can't pull 55 pounds?

Seriously?  My friend that shoots with me a lot can't come close to pulling 55lbs. She can't make the 35lb min draw weight at this time and she wants to try bow hunting. She has gone turkey hunting with me the last couple years. She shot well at @Buckmaster7600 pistol class last spring too.....Just because you don't like crossbows doesn't mean they wouldn't be useful for some. 

I would bet a ton of money that my 17 year old daughter that has played soccer her whole life and is very good shape wouldn't be able to come close to pulling 55lbs.

You must hang with some big women Belo!

Edited May 12, 2022 by ApexerER

[Buckmaster7600]

I was not the only one who read between the lines in your comment. If you didn't mean what it seemed you said, then no biggie. However 55 pounds is not difficult for any able bodied male or female above the age of 14. Period.
For those that are elderly or disabled, we've covered that already.
next.

You sound like a woke idiot! Been hanging out with chef and lefty?

As stated my daughter can’t draw the legal minimum. My ex wife was a college softball player and she couldn’t draw 55lbs. I’m pretty sure I remember Tiffany talking about drawing 42lbs.


Not to mention most able men can probably draw a 100lb bow back in their yard in august. On a 10 deg. Morning in November not many will be able to.


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