Proposed crossbow legislation for 2022

[ApexerER]

On 5/1/2022 at 11:36 AM, Jeremy K said:

Gotcha , we definitely have a different opinion on that.

Do you have a crossbow? If you do, which are you more accurate at 20-25 yds. Freehand crossbow or compound? 

I am more accurate with my compound at those ranges than I am freehand with my crossbow. For whatever reason it is much easier for me to hold the pin on a compound steady. Now you put the crossbow on a rest and its a different story but we very rarely get a rest while hunting. 

[Jeremy K]

17 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Do you have a crossbow? If you do, which are you more accurate at 20-25 yds. Freehand crossbow or compound? 

I am more accurate with my compound at those ranges than I am freehand with my crossbow. For whatever reason it is much easier for me to hold the pin on a compound steady. Now you put the crossbow on a rest and its a different story but we very rarely get a rest while hunting. 

I won't allow one in my house 

[grampy]

23 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I won't allow one in my house 

What if I stashed one in your shed???

[Jeremy K]

Just now, grampy said:

What if I stashed one in your shed???

How dare you !! LoL

[Don_C]

So, I started reading this and stopped when the conversation turned to the usual banter on the subject because it always goes south from there.  I just went to the last page. In my opinion there is an advantage with the crossbow if on a rest, but of course it will be on a rest of some sort most of the time, just as when gun hunting from a stand. The compound is not that difficult to master to the point of killing a deer under 25 yards, as long as you have the stealth to draw and shoot. For me, there is also the adrenaline rush with a bow that I do not get with a gun or crossbow, it’s simply not there. The engagement and the “closeness”, I feel to the animal is amplified when the bow is in my hand, unlike the interaction between hunter and prey as seen through a scope…for me. I believe it has to do with the amount of movement needed to get the shot off with a bow.

I did buy a crossbow 5 or so years ago and sighted it in rather easily, not as easily as I have with my compounds I will say, but not too difficult of exercise to accomplish. I went hunting with relatively little practice and shot a buck at 20 yards – without one hint of excitement or satisfaction. It just didn’t do it for me, and I also felt as if I were carrying a toy around the woods, a nerf gun with sharper projectiles if you will.  My curiosity was satisfied, I sold it almost immediately and will stay with the compound for as long as I can, then I will gladly move to a crossbow.  I hunt private land, so what others do doesn’t concern or bother me in the least. In fact, I would much prefer my neighbors participating in such hunts as described in many of these types of threads, “hiking” “walking around” “still hunting”… the same way they gun hunt, have at it.  I’ll be perched silently, bow in hand, on the escape routes from their hillside. If I hunted public land my opinion would possibly be different or I would have to modify my strategy to take advantage of such hunters.

As far as the implement itself goes, I have no pre-determined opinions one way or the other as to its classification as bow or gun. It is certainly not a gun, and in fact shoots arrows. The definition of archery is shooting with bow and arrow. The definition of crossbow is a medieval bow fixed across a wooded support… kind of self-explanatory to me.

All in all, I think the crossbow can be easier to use for many people. After sighting-in mine, my wife took a shot with it, never having shot a bow or crossbow before, and nailed the target 30 yards away with exceptional accuracy. Quite an accomplishment relative to handing her a 70lb compound. To think that a scoped crossbow on a rest is not an advantage over a vertical bow with pins seems silly to me, freehand, the compound is more accurate for me, but neither are very difficult to master.  So what am I trying to say? Who knows? there are a lot of acres out there and unless someone is engaging in a hunting practice, legal or otherwise, that is directly effecting me in a negative way, why even think about what they are doing?   I just hope something like this passes before I NEED to use a crossbow to hunt the warmth and colors of October of some distant year.

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Do you have a crossbow? If you do, which are you more accurate at 20-25 yds. Freehand crossbow or compound? 
I am more accurate with my compound at those ranges than I am freehand with my crossbow. For whatever reason it is much easier for me to hold the pin on a compound steady. Now you put the crossbow on a rest and its a different story but we very rarely get a rest while hunting. 

I’ll take a crossbow 10-1, give me crosshairs and a trigger any day if tight groups are what I’m after!

My dad taught me a long time ago to set stands quartering away over his left shoulder, right for me shooting lefty from the expected shooting lanes and using the tree to rest my grip elbow into when shooting a compound. I’ve never really known anyone else to do this but I love doing it. It’s also why a saddle was such an easy transition for me.


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[Buckmaster7600]

If we were listing reasons A through G why some are against full inclusion and tallying up all the answers, I actually think that's closer to G than it is to A. But in this vein there lies some truth. Despite some of the bad ass cig smoking, irish spring using, I don't practice and shoot big bucks guys on this site, most of us know that is incredibly more difficult to get a successful shot off on a nice mature buck, or doe for that matter at 30 or under with a compound. 
I will agree that it doesn't take a ton of work to become a decent shot with a compound these days. I will say that to become a decent shot so that when it's go time and your muscle memory kicks in from all that practice to overcome all the adrenaline does take more work than the guy flat footed in shorts and t-shirt in his backyard though. I'm not a vet, but I've spoken to many who have seen combat that can attest to repetition and muscle memory from training kicking in during a cluster f*ck engagement and have to think that it's a similar concept.
To answer what's closer to A than to G though? It's draw, distance, lack of optics, lack of rest etc. Those are the differentiators for most of us. Not so much the "I earned it in the off season". Just my tired old .02. 
Hell there's a crossbow now that has 2 bolts ready to go. I haven't seen that in a compound yet. 

The mental part of that I think someone’s going to mess up if they can’t hold it together no matter the weapon. Sight alignment, trigger control and breath control all matter the same with any weapon that has sights and a trigger.


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[Nomad]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

My dad taught me a long time ago to set stands quartering away over his left shoulder

Ya I’ve never got why most guys hang their stands facing trails and general routes they expect the deer to move past , mine are set parallel to my left side .  

Edited May 3, 2022 by Nomad

[Four Seasons]

8 hours ago, Belo said:

So what's the line for you? What if that guy is cooking meth out their on his property? What if he's trafficking humans or running a pedo ring? When do you stop minding your own business? I'm curious what your line is.

After your last post indicating it's ok to wound birds because they taste bad, I've decided I'm no longer replying to your posts. So take that as a victory, and good luck in life wolc. You and I have closed our chapter. 

I Think you are getting a little carried away with your connections here but to your questions. A meth house? A couple in the area but not my concern or am I the only one that believes so. The other two I would probably have to open up. In the case of private hunting property purchased and taxed on being ruined in part by some fool sitting in an office that is totally clueless to what’s going on with a piece of ground is not flying. Now if someone else wants to pay 250 grand for property and then get taxed 10 grand plus a year to allow someone else to ruin it for them then that’s on them. Many in these parts have not and will not let that happen. Call it what you will but one could even say the little ticket one might get in return for their doings would be well worth the price when it comes to investments.                                             I hope that does not sound like I am Boasting about others doings for any Karen’s out there. If so I deeply apologize !!!  

Edited May 3, 2022 by Four Seasons

[Nomad]

8 hours ago, Belo said:

incredibly more difficult to get a successful shot off on a nice mature buck, or doe for that matter at 30

30 yards ?! Since ‘88 I shot one bow deer at 25,  the rest were all between 8-15 . I seldom have ever practiced at 30 , no need .   
 

Bow season is about hunting skills brush up on them son .

[ncountry]

3 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

The mental part of that I think someone’s going to mess up if they can’t hold it together no matter the weapon. Sight alignment, trigger control and breath control all matter the same with any weapon that has sights and a trigger.


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Lol. You would think.

 I , admittedly,  am not the best archer(with a compound ) I have yet to be able to calm my excitement enough to be any where near as good as I am standing in the yard. I can shoot the $%^ out of a target in the yard. For me a crossbow just blends in with my firearm habits.  I can calm myself down with close to 100 % kill rate. 

Too much so, in fact, it is no where near as much fun as when I'm bowhunting. After clearing my head of all the excitement it never really settles back in again.

[G-Man]

16 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

I won't allow one in my house 

Have you tried one out of your house?? You cant bash them if you havent tried them  ,the tv hunting out if a blind with a bench rest  is  highly  unlikely  in most ny hunting situation.  Lean out of a stand with a crossbow off hand trying to get limbs to clear  limbs/ trees..  much more movement than drawing a bow. 

[Jeremy K]

1 minute ago, G-Man said:

Have you tried one out of your house?? You cant bash them if you havent tried them  ,the tv hunting out if a blind with a bench rest  is  highly  unlikely  in most ny hunting situation.  Lean out of a stand with a crossbow off hand trying to get limbs to clear  limbs/ trees..  much more movement than drawing a bow. 

Well thankfully the crossbow stays at full draw all day. 

[G-Man]

13 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’ll take a crossbow 10-1, give me crosshairs and a trigger any day if tight groups are what I’m after!

My dad taught me a long time ago to set stands quartering away over his left shoulder, right for me shooting lefty from the expected shooting lanes and using the tree to rest my grip elbow into when shooting a compound. I’ve never really known anyone else to do this but I love doing it. It’s also why a saddle was such an easy transition for me.


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I've set all my stands for broadside or quartering away shot.. plus im left handed  really get my friends upset as they are all right handed. They want to "see" the deer coming.  Imo your a lot better hunter usuing your ears especially in thick cover

[G-Man]

1 minute ago, Jeremy K said:

Well thankfully the crossbow stays at full draw all day. 

Not if you want it to explode on  a shot  .. another fallacy . Recommend 4 hours  max for  most manufactures.. always see x bows  blowing  up on  hunting sites every year. . 

Plus try shooting behing you out of a stand with a crossbow  you can lose over 60 degrees  of possible shots due to limbwidth.  A bow  loses maybe 10.. 

[G-Man]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Well thankfully the crossbow stays at full draw all day. 

Plus so does a draw lock on your bow, opics are available  as well for bows.  The draw is mostly a non factor if you know when to draw..  

[Buckmaster7600]

Lol. You would think.
 I , admittedly,  am not the best archer(with a compound ) I have yet to be able to calm my excitement enough to be any where near as good as I am standing in the yard. I can shoot the $%^ out of a target in the yard. For me a crossbow just blends in with my firearm habits.  I can calm myself down with close to 100 % kill rate. 
Too much so, in fact, it is no where near as much fun as when I'm bowhunting. After clearing my head of all the excitement it never really settles back in again.

That solidifies my point, It’s all mental. There’s nothing different. Shooting is shooting I don’t care if it’s a BB gun, a bazooka or a compound. The exact same fundamentals apply, yes there are a few more/different muscles you’re using but that’s it.

If you’re struggling on game day Google stress drills.


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[Buckmaster7600]

I've set all my stands for broadside or quartering away shot.. plus im left handed  really get my friends upset as they are all right handed. They want to "see" the deer coming.  Imo your a lot better hunter usuing your ears especially in thick cover

I have less than 50% of my hearing so I stand most of the time I’m in a stand looking around the tree, another reason why I’ve went to a saddle.


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[The_Real_TCIII]

Plus so does a draw lock on your bow, opics are available  as well for bows.  The draw is mostly a non factor if you know when to draw..  

In my 50 years I've never seen a draw lock in person or heard of anyone using one


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[G-Man]

51 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

In my 50 years I've never seen a draw lock in person or heard of anyone using one


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They are expensive 800 or so added expence to your bow.  I dont see many 2k rifles in the woods either but they exist . 

[Five Seasons]

18 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

The mental part of that I think someone’s going to mess up if they can’t hold it together no matter the weapon. Sight alignment, trigger control and breath control all matter the same with any weapon that has sights and a trigger.


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For sure, I've actually missed more with a gun than a bow and I think that's because mentally I know I have to have all my shit together with a bow and with a gun I've taken some less than ideal shots. But my point is that a killing weapon with an optic and trigger has less variables and is more forgiving under stress. Hell simply forgetting to bend at the waist could be the difference between wounded and dead, let alone a blurry peep, lower light collection without a scope, dropping the bow hand, follow through, incorrect grip or wrist position. Things that are all easy to control while target practicing but become more challenging on a 15* moring in a stand in November after sitting for 3 hours. 

To be fair, I think there has only been 1 or 2 guys in the long tenure of this debate on this board that have argued the compound was easier than the crossbow, so I'm kinda preaching to the choir. And there are folks that think my stance against the crossbow is negative and elitest. I don't find that negative at all as I do agree that the archery season should be reserved for those in pursuit of a challenge. It's meant to be hard. Society today is always looking to dumb shit down and make it easier for everyone. Inclusivity and all that BS that a certain political group shoves down your throats every day.

Why? Why can't we have something that's intentionally difficult and challenging? Isn't that what makes arrowing a 3.5 year old buck feel so f'n spectacular? Why does it feel so good? Because it's freaking hard. 

/rant

[Jeremy K]

5 hours ago, G-Man said:

I've set all my stands for broadside or quartering away shot.. plus im left handed  really get my friends upset as they are all right handed. They want to "see" the deer coming.  Imo your a lot better hunter usuing your ears especially in thick cover

You should turn them so you can get a shot with your crossbow

[Buckmaster7600]

For sure, I've actually missed more with a gun than a bow and I think that's because mentally I know I have to have all my shit together with a bow and with a gun I've taken some less than ideal shots. But my point is that a killing weapon with an optic and trigger has less variables and is more forgiving under stress. Hell simply forgetting to bend at the waist could be the difference between wounded and dead, let alone a blurry peep, lower light collection without a scope, dropping the bow hand, follow through, incorrect grip or wrist position. Things that are all easy to control while target practicing but become more challenging on a 15* moring in a stand in November after sitting for 3 hours. 
To be fair, I think there has only been 1 or 2 guys in the long tenure of this debate on this board that have argued the compound was easier than the crossbow, so I'm kinda preaching to the choir. And there are folks that think my stance against the crossbow is negative and elitest. I don't find that negative at all as I do agree that the archery season should be reserved for those in pursuit of a challenge. It's meant to be hard. Society today is always looking to dumb shit down and make it easier for everyone. Inclusivity and all that BS that a certain political group shoves down your throats every day.
Why? Why can't we have something that's intentionally difficult and challenging? Isn't that what makes arrowing a 3.5 year old buck feel so f'n spectacular? Why does it feel so good? Because it's freaking hard. 
/rant

If you’re after the challenge why don’t you hunt with a trad bow?

Why do you think the technology you use with a compound is acceptable but Xbow technology isn’t?

Again, I’m against full inclusion I’m just curious why/how your line in the sand is cams, peeps, release, etc but not scope and butt stock?


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[stubborn1VT]

Do any hardcore "archery" guys shoot trad, or even fingers? I don't have much patience for the idea that a compound is so hard when almost all use a release.  I get some of the anti-crossbow feelings, but the idea that a modern compound and crossbow are SO different is beyond me.  This archery tackle with a trigger is okay, but that archery tackle with a trigger is no challenge and only for slobs.  SMH.

[DirtTime]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

For sure, I've actually missed more with a gun than a bow and I think that's because mentally I know I have to have all my shit together with a bow and with a gun I've taken some less than ideal shots. But my point is that a killing weapon with an optic and trigger has less variables and is more forgiving under stress. Hell simply forgetting to bend at the waist could be the difference between wounded and dead, let alone a blurry peep, lower light collection without a scope, dropping the bow hand, follow through, incorrect grip or wrist position. Things that are all easy to control while target practicing but become more challenging on a 15* moring in a stand in November after sitting for 3 hours. 

To be fair, I think there has only been 1 or 2 guys in the long tenure of this debate on this board that have argued the compound was easier than the crossbow, so I'm kinda preaching to the choir. And there are folks that think my stance against the crossbow is negative and elitest. I don't find that negative at all as I do agree that the archery season should be reserved for those in pursuit of a challenge. It's meant to be hard. Society today is always looking to dumb shit down and make it easier for everyone. Inclusivity and all that BS that a certain political group shoves down your throats every day.

Why? Why can't we have something that's intentionally difficult and challenging? Isn't that what makes arrowing a 3.5 year old buck feel so f'n spectacular? Why does it feel so good? Because it's freaking hard. 

/rant

So you're OK taking a less ethical shot with a firearm than with a bow? Sometimes I swear you type to troll people and keep the argument going.

9 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Do any hardcore "archery" guys shoot trad, or even fingers? I don't have much patience for the idea that a compound is so hard when almost all use a release.  I get some of the anti-crossbow feelings, but the idea that a modern compound and crossbow are SO different is beyond me.  This archery tackle with a trigger is okay, but that archery tackle with a trigger is no challenge and only for slobs.  SMH.

I shot fingers with every compound I have owned until I bought my current bow which is way to short axle to axle to do so. I have tried and it just doesn't work on shorter bows.