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I am writing this topic just to let hunters and outdoors people know that dont take for gratited the time in the outdoors.I work 65 to 80 hrs a week I hunt maybe 2 times aweek.Having sundays and a qiuck spot during the week to get out.Everyone knows how important time out in the woods should be.every tree ,bush,animal,I take the time to enjoy every moment given to me these days plus I am no young gun blazing around the woods anymore passing this great time onto my son now days.So take it all in if your young learn as much as you can now.If your middle of the road share what you learned savor the moments for great memories and most of all take to heart every single second your here to do it.After all your here one time.

All you doe wackers are probably the ones who complain there are no deer left to shoot.

They kick them out during the breeding period. The fawns don't leave for good when the buck is done chasing and breeding the doe they return. How many times have you seen does with fawns late season?

I've tried 180 gr. and 165 gr. rounds but as I said, my rifle (Howa 1550) prefers, or is most accurate with 150 gr. bullets.

I have been fortunate along those lines. I received my very gun of my own when i passed 8th grade English (was always a rough subject for me in school for some reason). it was a browning bps 12ga that i used to kill MANY MANY rabbits with throughout the years and cherish that one as well as the 870 deer gun that was a high school graduation present from him as well. other than that. i had to buy all the others that i own up until this past x-mas. maybe he's getting soft in his old age!!! either that or he knows i wont spend that kind of money on a rifle and is sick of me borrowing one of his to deer hunt with..who knows. But i do have to agree about being in the woods together. Not that we have a bad relationship but the time spent at the cabin, in the woods and shooting, the relationship i s always better. seems like when we are doing that i am "just one of the guys" type deal instead the father son relationship and that makesits a lot more enjoyable experience. although last weekend when we were walking out of the cabin, the neighbors dog got out of their house and was up on our property and when we came out the dog came out from behind the wood pile and scared the living (insert swear word of choice here) out of us both and he immediately did the arm in front of me and push me back thing that all parents do when put into a potential ugly situation. all of you parents out there know what i am talking about. either way, it was cool that he still did that to his little boy thats 37 now. and the dog is damn lucky neither one of was turkey hunting and had a shotgun in our hands. lol

My rifle likes 150 grainers, and I have nothing but good things to say about Remington Core-Lokt ammo. One shot puts 'em down every time.

Fawn = under one year Yearling = over one year I still can not bring myself to wack a doe, but IF I ever hunt a area that needs population control I will do my part if I am allowed by the land owner. In so far as shooting a doe w/fawn, I think on LI it's no problem due to no predators. But anywhere coyote is present and the winters are hard I would lay off any doe w/fawn just to have more deer in my area and give that fawn a chance, but I hunt area's with very few deer. I think fawn's really need the support of the mother the 1st year, after that 1st year is over they will be fine as they have enough experience to survive making it through there 1st winter ok.

Congrats on the new gun! My old man wouldnt give me a gun, he said Im getting the whole stack of them eventually anyhow lol. Nice to be the only son sometimes.

I have always thought yearling meant a deer in its first year of life. This year's fawns are yearlings.

What's interesting, you can NOT shoot a bear from a group. Only solo bears make be taken. So they don't want to decimate the bear population, just keep it in check.

Until we went to rifles, all I ever used was Remington 1100 16 ga. That gun loved the Brenneke slugs. I miss using that old gun.

Next up HuntingNY doe pee

Nice job, Steve.. When I read the title of this thread I thought you said it was your first TALIBAN mount... I was wondering what part do you mount ? The BEARD ? The TURBAN.?....

My theory, you arent going to see deer if you arent in the woods. Moon phase makes no difference in my theory.

Ive been shot at three times by individuals that i believe were sober. I don't want to take my chances with a guy that has alcohol in his system.

This is a pic of over 100 killed last winter by yjis group of hunters and their dogs on the border of 6S and 7M near Waterville, NY. All within a 4 mile radius of the intersection rt 12 and rt 20. Holy Shit!!!! Huh.

I'd find a new girlfriend!

That's the best way of doing it. Mounting it like that will never leak grease either! I recommend it too.

Steve and I toured the country with our singing group back in the day, before that we grew up in the same tribe hunting bongo's with bamboo spears. Here is a clip of us on tour, im the one in the purple shirt and steve is the shorter one to my left. #After the tour ended we remained friends and all these years later are now business partners, we just hooked abunch of new business for our newest endeavor. We came up with an app that tells dim witted hunters what way the wind is blowing when they are out side in the wind. Next we are working on one that tells you when you are wet in a rain storm. We are not actual brothers or lovers as that dirty stinking pygmy suggested, just good friends from the home land. Steve is back there now sharing the wealth, we made $1.99 off of WNY today and that goes a long way back home.

They're "wild" because they get drunk in Cancun and shows their teats to Joe Francis.

I shot a big doe on my neighbors farm last year, didnt know she had fawns with her, started gutting her out and saw movement, coyotes have been known to hang out around the swamp i was in, so i figured better be safe then sorry and put my gun next to me, few minutes later i heard the fawn blatting. Kinda felt bad for the little feller. Really felt bad when my dad decided to joke around that night and say, Jordan you mean SOB, that baby is probably down there going, "Momma, Momma, where are you, Im scared of the dark, momma." But if its a Very small fawn i wouldnt, but if they are decent size, i would shoot the momma. It does kinda kick you in the nuts though when you hear the fawn blatting as your gutting their mother.

I don't, I assume that having momma around is going to make life easier on them, and I'm just a big softie in general.

Stonycreek Whitetails This is a question from Berney - "i have a question. i have killed a few bucks by grunting them in but never really have had much luck with scents. i am sure its because i am using them wrong. my question is when and where should i use estrus and or tarsel glands or a combo of the tw...o. just tryin to make myself a better hunter. thanks." Hi Berney and thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain the differences in the two scent products and tactics you are asking about. First, I would like to explain exactly what "estrus" is in order to help you have a better understanding of what you are using and when best to use it. There are two different types of estrous or estrus scents that are available and can be collected from a whitetail doe. The first scent is estrous - notice the spelling. Estrous is a reproductive cycle in the whitetail doe that only happens during periods of the year when there is longer periods of darkness in 24 hours. This time frame for estrous is usually from the fall (autumnal) equinox through to the spring (Vernal) equinox. The increase in darkness of over 12 hours a day during this time triggers an increase in melatonin production, thus triggering reproductive readiness in polyestrous animals such as deer, goats and foxes, among several others. The estrous cycle is much like a menstrual cycle and is a 26-28 day process leading to estrus/heat/menstruation. The second type of Estrus - notice the spelling, is a short period of 12-24 hours that happens only once during a doe's 26-28 day estrous cycle. This is indeed when the doe is in heat and in reality is the truest form of estrus. A lot of scent manufactures unknowingly market one or the other under false terms. What I mean by this is, unless you actually know the difference in these to words, as they both sound alike, you really cant effectively begin to use them. To summarize the two types of estrous/estrus scents: Doe "estrous" scents are collected from a doe during her 26-28 day estrous cycle. The estrous cycle in a doe only happens during the fall and winter months. Doe "estrus" scents are collected from a doe during her 12-24 hours of heat/estrus, which only happens once every 26-28 days and only during the period between the fall and spring equinox. I can assure that there are no fresh (collected this year) estrus scents available until the end of September. I hope this helps you understand the difference in the two. A lot of scent companies will collect urine all year long. When purchasing doe scents, you need to make sure you are getting either estrous or even better - estrus scents. This will make all the difference in the success of your hunt while using scents. Now that you have a better understanding of what the doe scents are, lets move on to the next part of your question and that being when and how to best utilize scents. Using estrous or estrus scents too early is much like using your brand new hen call way before turkey season. All you are doing is educating the ol' tom to your tactics. Just like that ol' Tom, mature buck are pretty sharp animals. I really don't like to or recommend using estrous/estrus scent much before the week before Halloween. None of the doe in the woods are in heat/estrus in September - so this is something totally unnatural and more than likely will spook an older mature buck. However, during pre-rut the older mature buck are working on establishing territory. I feel we as hunters are not taking full advantage of this time by challenging buck to territorial wars. What I mean by this is, often times around the first week of October we will start noticing scrapes being made. I feel these are territorial markings made by dominant buck who are claiming their territory. When I find an area that has two or more scrapes I immediately start looking for rubs. If I find an area that has two or more scrapes with rubs in close proximity I feel this is where two buck are challenging each other. This is where I will come in and create a mock scrape with buck urine. After all, it's the same thing a real buck does when he makes a scrape, right? So now I feel I am adding interest in this area and have upped my chances that one of the two buck will pay more attention to this area in hopes of finding the "other" buck that is challenging them. Its now an area of interest. Should I come back and hunt later that day and not see anything, I will hunt that area again in the morning. If I still don't see anything that morning then I will inspect the area for new signs that may have been placed over night. If I find that the scrapes are hit and new rubs in the area, then I know I got the ol boys attention. I will freshen my scrape, never putting any urine in his scrape as this would be a sign of submission. Then I will hunt again that evening and it is usually at this time when I get my first glimpse of the buck. If I don't end up with a shot, I will keep the mock scrape active, hunting 3 days on and 3 days off. As Halloween approaches and I still have not got a shot and there is still a lot of new sign in the area, then and only then will I bring in estrous scent. I will use drag rags with one having buck urine on it and the other having estrous urine on it. I will drag a few scent trails mocking that of a buck chasing a doe. Think about this for a moment. You are in your house (your territory) and another guy is chasing you girlfriend or wife... Your are going to be fighting mad, right? That is what we want to do to the buck - make him take life threatening chances to show himself more often and during the day. We want this area to become priority number one where all he can think about is finding the buck that is chasing his doe. That is how we use scents. Scents are tools that allow you to become the deer and communicate on their level. I have yet to see a deer climb a tree and urinate 20 feet off the ground. I have yet to see a deer cock his leg and pee on a tree. I do however see buck making scrapes and urinating in them. Give the mock scrape a try - you might be pleasantly surprised! I have left the tarsals to the end as I feel they are not as important, or more like a marketing scheme. I raise deer and I have yet figured out how to get my deer to grow back the tarsal glands after I cut them off. Yea, I could go to a slaughter shop and buy up all the tarsals, but that is just a hunk of dead flash. I might as well take some raw hamburger to the woods and hang in a tree and then squirt scents on it - it is basically accomplishing the same thing. I do feel tarsals on a live animal are important but as soon as the blood stops flowing through them, they are nothing more than a hunk of rotting, stinking, dead flesh. As far as tinctures go, what most companies label as tarsal scents, they too are nothing more than a tarsal gland soaked in alcohol for months and then filtered. Tinctures work great for predators that feed on rotting flesh. However, I am not convinced they are that effective on deer, IMHO. I think that if a hunter sticks with the 3 basic scents - buck urine, doe estrous urine and doe estrus urine he is more likely to harvest a mature buck year after year. After all, these are the same three scents used day in and day out to communicate by the real deer we are trying to hunt. I hope this long winded post helps you understand a little more about using scent products more effectively. I wish you all the best and look forward to discussing further any questions you may have. Good luck this season and happy hunting, John Swank

Most of us are ready to give up where our first born sleep at night but not our secret hunting spots! lol

I thought we were talking residence....I'd let you guys know that....no way on the hunting areas...lol

??

when you drive slow on highway so the passenger can look for deer in the woods on side of road ...

They all got the DEC's AR memo.......

I have never been able to bring myself to do it. It is legal though and they say good deer management, so i would not look down my nose at others who do. However, it has been my experience hunting my land (and living on it every day) since 1991, that it's a crap shoot for the fawns once she is gone. They just don't have enough experience getting through their first deer season or winter, and usually end up in somebody's freezer just like momma or being picked off by coyotes.

Ive taken a mature doe with yearlings the past 3 years in a row, take her lol they will be fine...

Not necessarily true... the doe will go out on her rendevous' and leave the fawns in an area and return after she has been bred. The fawns stay with the mother/doe for ever. It's the young first year bucks that get kicked out by the doe to join the boys club.

Not exactly what I had in mind.

What a battle we all go through as we make our way through life and try to balance those things we need to do for our future and the futures of those in our family versus our other passions of life. That battle is behind me now, and am reaping the benefits of retirement. However in the years along the way, I did do that balancing routine, and in fact did pass by some opportunities in favor of enjoying those outdoor activities that my life has always revolved around. Sometimes I was able to turn down that overtime, or rearrange my work schedule a bit, or just plain refuse some assignments. My decisions were not always popular with the bosses, and maybe cost me some opportunities for advancement along the way. But the times were such that a guy could get away with that and still do pretty darn good anyway. I do believe that was a different sort of time when employees were actually valued and not merely treated as a disposable commodity. In all fairness, I do recognize that the bulk of my life was spent in an era when I did have those choices available. Those choices may not often be available today. Some guys are doing whatever is necessary just to stay employed. That does indeed trump hunting and fishing and so on.....lol. But if you feel decades getting by you with no real life experiences other than what happens at work it might be useful to check those priorities and see if some adjustments can and should be made. What puts all this into perspective is when you suddenly realize that your getting a bit old, and you get a chance to look back on it all. No one wants to say, I wish I had taken more time for this and that. The only time to avoid that fate is right now while you are living life. I think I did a pretty good job with that balancing routine. I hope others take the time to do the same.

You gentlemen have doneyour home work great info yes acorns become the main staple in a deers diet during the acorn drop season. almost being the only thing they will eat.A deers instinct drives them to eat the most nutritious forages at the most opportune times of the yr. I planted a oak grove of 24 trees most red and pin oaks about 20 yrs ago then putting in a small apple grove next to it about 3 or 4 yrs later. my finding were the deer especially the more mature does and bucks didnt travel to far there was water close by and lots of food I notice alot less activity in the foodplots several hundred yards away especially yrs of really heavy acorn and apple production also in summers with less rainfall or cooler summer nights tree and plant spikes help keep the production numbers up some producting more fall food production.I have a biologist friend who has studied my methods and compared them to natural seasons and her finding were very helpful in learning how to make the food sources produce more forage yearly keeping the deer closer and most of all healthier yr to yr.I have taken 150 plus acres and worked it into a very efficent ecosystem this took over 20 yrs and in a very pressured hunting area of lower ulster county.I actually have several landowner join me and work their respective properties to.