Leaderboard

I am against ar's they do not do anything more than stoke someone's ego thinking they are going to kill a big one, thing is the decrease in population allows yearling bucks to get more nutrition and therefor bigger antlers so your restriction of antler points to make them older is negated. how many here can say every buck they shot is 8pt or bigger? Everyone starts small and work their way to bigger more mature game as a personal choice. Who are we to tell someone oh sorry can't shoot that when we have a basket full of small bucks in the attic in the garage. Forget antlers and let hunting be what iit's suppose to be, a time to band with older and younger members of family and friends,a harvest of delicious meat, and a fun wholesome experiance away from today's electronic busy world outside in the beauty that is missed in our urban enviroments.

I'm not exactly sure how they arrived at those numbers. When I filled out my 2014 buck tags, the only descriptive information I had to check off (report) about my bucks was # of points on right and left antlers. How in the world they can put a deer in an age bracket based on that information alone is beyond me. I'm guessing these calculations may be a weeee bit inaccurate..., or at least tweaked a bit for shock purposes.

The deer were on their feet this morning... I had this 4 year old that I call "Wannabe" stop by just prior to sun up. His tines are still bulby on the tips and it appears that he is trying to add small G4's... A short time later the rest of the boys showed up. I've been hoping to get pics of several of these bucks since first spotting them out in this field a month ago...

This is an excerpt from a recent article on the Outdoor Wire. "Now, an entirely new petition is circulating on change.org - and it's designed to put pressure on U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe. If you're wondering if there's a goal to the petition, the title tells the story: "Justice for Cecil the iconic collared lion slaughtered by a trophy hunter in Zimbabwe!" Yes, that's an exclamation point at the end. No, we don't support the use of them, but we do support accurate quotations, so there it is. This petition, begun by Cheryl Semcer of Hoboken, New Jersey on July 31 -just four days ago, has already collected more than one million of the 1.5 million signatures that are the stated goal. Semcer's not an unfamiliar name to New York or New Jersey residents - especially if they're hunters. She's been called the "the Lion Lady of Hoboken, NJ" and website "EyeHelpAnimals.com" trumpets that she is "at it again" with the Cecil petition. According to that site, Semcer began a petition in 2012 that "resulted in the end of the sale and preparation of lion meat at a restaurant in Wichita, Kansas." There's no doubting Semcer's sincerity, although she might be a bit lacking on the facts of what hunting means to the economies of many African nations. But her love of animals resulted in her traveling to Zimbabwe and South Africa in 2009 where she "volunteered with lions, elephants and at a shelter with abused cats and dogs." In other words, she's not afraid to take a stand. And she has some clearly stated goals -and the active support of more than a million people who are outraged at the killing of a lion half-way around the world. Personally, I think it's unfortunate that the daily killing of human beings - globally- doesn't stir people's souls, but that's probably just my "desperate clinging nature". But I'm not afraid to make this prediction: if hunters- internationally- don't act quickly and with equal passion in support of legal hunting, this vocal minority (a million people signing an electronic petition still represents a small minority of the overall population), those same millions of hunters will have taken a big step toward the elimination of all hunting. As it is, international trophy hunters may soon find themselves, as the old expression says, all dressed up with no place to go." --Jim Shepherd

Some good deer out that way..But if you can't stay on the land by even a tent not good deal for anyone but locals...IMO

Oh yes, the good old outside the ears rule. Maybe a nice loud shout will get them to look straight at you while you check out if the antlers have the proper relation to the ears. That's always something I try to do before I shoot. It's always a bit more sporting to give them a heads-up that you are there. All these fad-rules simply make it more likely that hunters will just begin assuming that because the antlers look so big from the side that they have to meet whatever arbitrary criteria the rules demand. So what if there are a few more deer rotting in the woods because somebody made a bad gamble.

Management practices arent really the driving force behind ARs, not in my opinion. I think its the TV big rack culture that sells the idea that anyone with 50 acres can realistically shoot a 130+, or should be able to. People buy into that nonsense and then feel like they should shove that desire down everyones throat because they dont think there are enough of those deer around. For alot of areas, its simply not true. People dont realize that their property might just not be one that will hold older bucks, and alot of the time there is nothing they can do about it. ARs or not. Other times, they dont have the know how, willingness to do what it takes or access to get the big bucks that are around their area. I hear people all the time saying "NY can be the next Iowa", but it cant, and ARs wont make it that way. ARs will not affect the way I hunt, but I dont want to see them affect the way anyone else hunts either. Id rather spread the message for what voluntary ARs or management practices can do.

today 8/3/15 I took my grand son snapper fishing for the first time first I had to find a bait shop in Islip not easy went to one on mountauck hwy had a sign out front WE SELL BAIT stopped there closed took a ride to another place yep closed so I finely took a ride it west islip salt water anglers and bought my bait all ways go go there worth the ride back to Islip and fishing he so much enjoyed it. He caught four snappers all of them about 6 inches or shorted he fishing for about 30 maybe 40 minuets then to B K for his lunch [kids meal] best fishing trip I had in a long time cant wait to take him back out again

Anyone who thinks they're able to manage or manipulate the deer herd in this state from a desk in Albany is delusional. So yeah, that's exactly what they'll try to do. It's how bureaucrats think. The whole 'trophy' deer argument is not about the numbers of 'trophy' deer that can be grown. Those deer are out there, and they're watching your every move. This is about the accessibility of those 'trophies' for the people who are unwilling to work hard to get them. 'Trophy' hunting is supposed to be hard work. That's why it's called a trophy.

Well I'm going to state this publicly and the DEC and all of your opinions on it be damned! If they put this into effect with a spread minimum and I have a specific buck pass within a good shot range ...he's going down and screw the law period. Now I say this for more than a few "crap your pants" bucks having crossed my property... that did not pass such rules...one was the 12" inch brow tine buck who's G-2's were over 12", high tight rack...Another the hog that stepped out in front of me as I was getting out of my car. Massive body and too many twisted gnarly points to count...in fact I described it and Jesus's thorny crown. There was no "spread" on that buck. We have many high tight racks . Like the neighbors buck and The bigger 12 point I missed a couple of years ago whose rack had more mass but was the same type of tight high configuration. I'm actually getting tired of BS..I have been a stickler on the laws always and I know them pretty well ,unlike a lot of hunters...But I'm getting older and hey admittedly slowing down and I will be double dipped shite if I have such a buck get a pass when it is clearly a mature buck....Yes I say this with no intentions of ever getting a deer head mounted and with having gotten some nice mature bucks, but not being a Trophy hunter. There that's my stand on it.

The death of the "deer camps" and the older traditions paved the way for this isolated, myopic approach to hunting. IMO

A ML is super sonic. A cross bow isn't and given the noise difference between the crossbow and a compound I think most people have this issue with your account of your hunt. It was very fortunate that the deer stayed put for you. a small movement of 6" could have cost you that deer in the time of release and bolt flight.

Same two deer last year / this year:

Nice two year old that appears to have jammed a stick or something into his right mainbeam... Back in January... I'm not sure who this tall tined 8-pt is. He looks to be a really nice two year old or possibly a three year old (I leaning towards three)...

This buck was a awesome 2 year old six point last year. He showed back up post season around x-mas but had apparently been shot and already shed his antlers... I wasn't certain that he had survived the brutal winter until I spotted him one time in early summer. Well, he's alive and well and not looking too bad. You can see the scar above his shoulder...

Another example of NY becoming a dictatorship. When is doubt add more government oversight. Man if not for my stupid immediate family id be out of here. We continue to be less of a free country everyday. I know I've mentioned this before but if everyone stops buying a license I bet they will listen to us a lot more.

Antler spread IS the best way to tell a mature buck in the field by his antlers alone... whether or not most hunters are able to do that is another thing entirely... AR's can only protect small bucks if the restriction is adequate to do so... three on a side is not adequate... It would be far more productive to educate hunters on what a big mature buck actually looks like before trying any program to protect young bucks... even more so the DEC needs to accurately, and effectively explain why it is necessary to protect younger bucks... without doing those things AR's are worthless and ineffective as a real conservation tool. I find that the trend of many hunters being selective by choice is working much better than any mandate implemented so far.

If we had too many does, the gun season would (or should) have been utilized. This is bad decision making and bad biology.

even worse, for the buck hunters anyway, is you will have guys stomping around the first two weeks sending the buck that they have been watching all summer into alert mode......kinda screws up the early season ambush.

Hmm mm who wants to be i the stand and watch big bucks go by

I was doing to ask for a link, but I just went and got it on my own. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html Wow, that's a big chunk of the state they made severe changes too. I have to double check, I think one of the areas I will be in the SZ will be involved.

People who live with pavement under their shoes trying to tell people with mud on their boots what's best for them. Really?

Sorry to have been a part of derailing this thread. Antler spread ARs is just one of the bigger hot-buttons for me. I think that the topic that buckstopshere brought up was a fantastic observation. Whether you believe the stats or the way they are arrived at, the fact is that it is that very same statistical method that the DEC makes policy with and wants to base further hunting restrictions on. And to consider their own stats that show a failure of ARs and then for them to continue implementing them and expanding them, shows a certain kind of arrogant ignorance that proves that they only operate on perceptions rather than fact. I think we burned this topic just a little too quickly. Sorry for my part in that.

so you will fight up and down with us about the sunrise/sunset laws...but this one is ok to break?

I didnt say that I thought they were close. I couldnt even tell you the last time I took a deer to a processor. I only know of one or two guys that do use processors anymore. $75 to cut up a deer is a joke.

I hope you dont think they get even remotely close to right numbers by doing this? I could show ya piles of deer that never see any of those places.

Ha-ha-ha .... Read up on how the DEC establishes their "Harvest reporting rates" and you will see the iron-clad, absolutely fool-proof ways (accurate to within a couple of percentage points) that they can take spot checks at deer processors and other such places and extrapolate from a relatively insignificant number of dead deer amazing gobs of information about the entire NYS deer herd harvest. No problem! This is the wonderful age of statistics. Aren't you a believer? Heck, coming up with the age of the harvests has to be a piece of cake.

I agree With what you say above WNYBuckHunter. My point wasn't to marry land management supporters with mandatory AR Supporters. My comment was just to illustrate how the sport is changing and that the dec seems to be buying in to some of these changes. particularly, as you state, he idea that hunting for big bucks needs to be improved in NYS. I've been hunting in an AR zone myself for the past 4 or 5 years. Hasn't changed much for me and my group. Cost us a couple deer where 3rd point could not be confirmed in time for a shot.

Next one will be at least as big......between that and a new Lab pup, it's keeping me off the Chemung and Susquehanna when both rivers are FINALLY looking good...

What they have for width is pretty much what they will finish with, mass has been decided by now also. If those tips are balled up and black on the ends then there is still blood flow there and they may add an inch or two on their points and main beams. couple three more weeks and they will grey up until shedding the cover and showing those jewels they have been working on the last few months.

NYON ....... Always good for a few good threads here. This issue is no exception. Some great articles in this issue that I will be commenting on soon.

GONE! It has been gone for quite a while. It's alright though. I have been forced to dine on some nicely marbled angus steaks and roasts instead. Oh, poor me!

Exactly!!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but were ARs initially implemented in certain regions (NYS) due to the pressure of trophy hunters upon the DEC. Another factor that irks me is why is the DEC lately getting involved with hunter satisfaction or their ability to provide the public with sufficient opportunities? Four Seasons' question - Czar Andy is promoting tourism in NY throughout all the state's resources/departments in an effort to bring in $$. Since he can't get employers to start-up or expand any businesses within NYS, his plan is to take out-of-stater's money. Let's see if I've got this correct. The minority, proverbial "squeaky wheel" generally prevails! Secondly, the DEC's primary mission has changed to bringing in money for the general fund and secondarily to address environmental issues. That's not even taking into account the basic, non-outdoorsmen legislators that are creating the environmental (hunting/fishing) laws, FUBAR!

Probably just stood up as too say "Hey i'm over here ,don't throw any rocks at me please " and finished off with a really snotty tone "Thank you"

I got to selective last year and wasn't able to make it out for muzzle loader season so I never pulled the trigger or bow release...... I saved a few packs for just that reason but I was out a long time ago.....I learned my lesson the hard way......Now its meat hunting first and then I'll be selective. This year I hope to put a bunch in the freezer to avoid this problem.

Trophy bucks on horizon for Ny state. Bigger bucks will bring in out of state hunters. They wont have to go all the way to Ohio.illy,Kansas when they can stop off in Ny. Or something like that. LOL Someone has the bigger plan all figured out.

Just one guys worthless opinion.................(mine, not yours Oak) If AR's OR the One Buck Rule are implemented the heat will definitely be on the YEARLING buck as they will surely be killed by guys (mistakenly of course) shooting an antlerless deer in lieu of a buck sporting 3 points to a side. And only obviously the doe fawn and mature doe will take a big hit like PA hunters have done. Oh wait........they WANTED to protect the yearling buck right?

Saved a roast and 10 lbs to make jerky for.opening day .

take a look at L.I. fireman.....all volunteers, do it all for nothing, and I'm sure many other places are the same.....volunteer ambulance company's, volunteer firefighter's....they do it all for pretty much nothing....not every place gets paid, I'd give them the shirt off my back to keep them doing what they do....and most paid dept's are far from rich, I have no problem giving them the best tools they need to the their job....they don't benefit from the new toys, the people they serve do.

I don't know if all shellholders are interchangeable, but I have RCBS, Lyman and LEE, and they are all the same... As far as single stage presses go, the RCBS Rockchucker is the one that others are compared to....

Just got up to the house after finishing today's planting and the sky opened up with a good soaker. Someone may like me up there, LOL.

Just as funny now as the 1st time you said it. Demonstrates just how little you understand your equipment - and your own skills.

I agree with your definition. IMO big woods means you will run in Sasquatch before you run into another hunter.

Some like the challenge, some like the meat, some like it easier, some harder etc. etc. It doesn't much matter as long as they're out doing it because they enjoy it. That is what I like to see. The enthusiasm is what keeps hunters out there and what bonds us all together... think about it, that's why we are all here on the forum... a common interest in an activity that we all enjoy in our own way. We buy a license, we kill deer, we share our experiences and have some fun doing it ... even during the off season. That's pretty special.

In the wild, as opposed to farm raised deer, age is the defining factor that allows for big antlered bucks. Both genetics and nutrition are very important in creating the potential for those bucks, but that potential can never be realized in a wild buck if he never reaches maturity. Having said that... if it's JUST genetics vs nutrition... it would be a tie... truly big antlers CAN NOT happen with the absence or a deficiency of either.

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm all about the big antlers, but not for the reason most would think. At this stage of my life I am more about the most challenging hunts... big, more mature, bucks are just more of a challenge to find and to kill. Handcuffing myself by hunting with traditional weapons and hunting in areas that most hunters find intimidating adds to the excitement and challenge. It is never really about what animal I kill as much as how I do it. I'm not that guy that would shoot a Boone & Crockett buck off my back porch... if I can't hunt him I won't shoot him. It's all about the challenge of the hunt and the story behind it. I would still hunt smaller bucks if they gave me the challenge and thrill of a good hunt, but they don't. Honestly, I wish they still did.

Umm, it needs to be standing somewhere that it is legal for me to shoot it. I know you keep claiming that it is easy for a hunter to kill a deer, and maybe that is the case when you have 900 acres of your own to hunt. For those of us who ONLY hunt state land, it is a lot more of a challenge. I have killed deer 2 of the past 5 years, which to me is a good success when you are hunting either: 1) Overcrowded small patches of state land where people will walk 10 yards away and sit down or 2) Big woods up north were the deer are much more scarce and unpredictable. Personally, I have moved onto #2 and ANY deer is a good deer as long as its legal and ethical.

So I see you didn't watch it either....hhhmmmm BTW ..should you decide to watch it...take special note that the deer in the UNIVERSITY STUDY were 3yr olds..I'm on my PC now so here is the link to make it easier: http://www.growingdeer.tv/archive/#/whitetail-antlers-and-genetics-fact-or-fiction

2 years ago i'd agree with you about how easy it is just to walk into the woods. Years of private land hunting has spoiled me. I challenge you to head to some of the public land and norther parts of the state and report back.